New Units

[Imperious Leader]

yea and that why naval planes are totally seperate from land based fighters… its a problem of scale and utility. They didnt use japanese torpedo pilots ( very skilled) to bomb china and support mainland asia… they were only utilized in the capacity of their training.

[Jennifer]

If you’re going to use paratroopers, I think you need a whole new aircraft.  Make it cost 8 IPC and carry 2 infantry or 1 tank 3 spaces (allowing for 3 spaces to return.  4 with LRA.  This is still 6/8 with LRA, but it’s a bit more restricted in that they have to have 3 movement points left to return at the end of their leg.  Call it time to line up on the LZ so htat the troops can be assured of landing in the right spot or whatever.)

[cyan]

@Jennifer:

Make it cost 8 IPC and carry 2 infantry or 1 tank 3 spaces (allowing for 3 spaces to return.  4 with LRA.

i think that is a good idea and they could land on carriers. so transports can carry them 2 spaces then the aircraft could carry another 3. antiaircraft guns could fire at them and fighters could defend the terrortoy that the plane is trying to land in for one cycle of combat, if it is not all ready defending. it would be a 0/1 like transports

[Imperious Leader]

No new units are needed to carry paratroopers. This varient is not about 100 different units all with a singular purpose. No sharpshooters, no frogmen, no nazi UFO’s, no bombers that only transport paratroopers, no glider units, none of that rubbish. WE concentrate on basics and try to maximize the impact that the units that allready come with the game can have but with a few additional units 3-5 that only fix major unit deficiancies

SS Panzers
heavy artillery or heavy tanks
divebombers ( fighter-bombers)
cruisers
mechanized infantry

thats it.

[tekkyy]

Yeah many varients has lots of new units, but here we only want to model units there were deployed widely, on a division level. Not a commando squad for example.

Infantry transport plane landing on carrier? Were any transporters carrier capable in WWII?

@Jennifer:

allowing for 3 spaces to return. 4 with LRA. This is still 6/8 with LRA

yep we use the 50% air movement rule standard on air units
say with a fighter
you can no longer start at Norway, attack Karelia, and land Evenki National Okrug (or even Soviet Far East with LRA lol)

[Deaths Head 420]

I know this post is old but You gots to have paratroopers, everybody had them in one way or another. They are the sh*t.
Most of the people on this forum i’m sure has a couple different copies of this game. Alot of you probably have the original game. Use those pieces.

Paratroopers cost 4 ipc’s they are a 2-3. Paratroopers cannot be moved except by transport plane.

Transport plane Cost 8 move 4, They are a 0-1- May transport or deploy 2 paratroopers or transport 2 reg inf.
During non combat if there is a paratrooper in range and has done nothing as well with a available transport, the transport may fly out and pick up the trooper for later deployment. Long range aircraft applies to air transports also move 6. Bombers Can carry 0 paratrooper’s because they were not built for that. Imagine the 101’st jumping en masse into normandy in B-17 flying fortress ,LOL, or even a JU 88’s dumping a load of Fallschirmjaeger all over crete, that Poo is funny! AA shoots as normal and if transportplane is a casualty the paratroopers die also

Put this in as a tech roll or something they go as a package

[tekkyy]

Yeah we had ideas for paratroopers too.
Just that they weren’t hugely successful and not too many “corps” level deployment.

Yeah indeed idea was to use original game pieces for the new optional units. Those who don’t have the original game just buy another copy of revised. It’ll probably have slightly different dye colour anyway  :evil: :-D

Why can’t paratroopers move on their own?
And it would be a lot to have to use another game piece to explicitly represent transport planes.
How about implicitly represent transport planes in each paratrooper unit?

Although we could find a use for the transport planes. Currently in AARHE you can’t “transport” IPCs through enemy territories. Maybe transport planes can attempt to carry IPCs through hostile territories.

[Deaths Head 420]

1 They can’t move because they would take the place of arty and i do not want to see that happen, same cost higher def. value.
2 Use the Inf. from original Axis and allies as your new troopers and use the old bombers as transports, I know C-47’s didn’t have 4 engines but at least it is definatly identifiable
3. I love para troopers as england o what fun one can have!

[tekkyy]

By the way when I said
“Just that they weren’t hugely successful and not too many “corps” level deployment.”

I meant historic context.

[Deaths Head 420]

I know that is why they should be a tech roll and not just another unit u get.

[tekkyy]

or an optional unit

how much was it used in the war?
wasn’t Operation Market Garden the biggest paradrop and it failed?

[Micoom]

Failure shouldn’t mean, that they are not worthy enough to be in the game, maybe you will use them better then the leaders in WWII. Germany used them in Norway, Holland, Belgium and Crete. US and UK in Sicilly, Italy, France, Holland, Germany and some in the Pacific. Japan used them mainly with the invasion of Borneo and the Dutch East Indies.

But use the bomber, instead of a new transport plane?

[tekkyy]

Should only heavy bomber be able to?

[Deaths Head 420]

Like I said paratroopers do not jump out of bombers, It makes no sense, Should we jump out of the middle gunners position or maybe the ball turret what do you think?

[Imperious Leader]

They do not come from Bombers but its the only candidate for airborne.

[Deaths Head 420]

Why? Just cause the piece didn’t come OOB from Avalon Hill. I do not understand why everyone is so hesitant on new pieces, It makes a whole new way to play the game if you are lucky enough to get it.

[tekkyy]

I am not totally against it.
I am thinking the new piece could be cargo plane too.
I don’t know if I make sense though.

If it doesn’t then I feel more towards implicitly represented by the paratrooper piece.

Its like because its a strategic game all the game pieces should be some sorta division/corps. (Rather than a specific military vehicle type.)

[Imperious Leader]

Ok how bout this:

the candidate airborne infantry unit is transported by a new piece (using the bomber for 2nd edition milton bradley) to a drop location. This is the only time the piece actually is placed on the map. If along the way it moves over an enemy territory the transport plane can be shot at by AA guns and or subject to aerial attacks. So you will want to escort fighters to protect it. The infantry is carried to its destination and it will get a +1 attack modifier for the first combat round only. Otherwise it performs like any other infantry unit. The fight is to the death… no retreats

One transport plane can carry one infantry. The use of these planes for the turn costs 1 IPC for each infantry droped. If the plane is shot down for any reason the cargo is lost and the next plane airborne drop will cost the player 5 IPC for each destroyed transport plane.

stats on transport plane:

no attack
moves 4 spaces
defends at 1

[Micoom]

Does this also mean, that no more then 1 transport plane at a time is allowed? Or is it OK to buy extra planes, even if the first one is not shot down yet??

You could also think of a rule like this;

Airborne infantry or paratrooper must be purchased as a separate unit, and has the rules you proposed for the transport plane build in. This will mean you don’t need the use of the MB bomber piece… (just for people who don’t have it, but do want to use the option) This means the trooper can still be shut down by enemy fighters or AA, and escorted by friendly fighters

stats;
Cost 4
Moves 4* (but can only end its move in enemy territory, otherwise move like normal infantry)
Attack 2* (only 2 when dropped in enemy territory, and only on first combat cycle, otherwise 1 like normal infantry)
Defend 2

[Imperious Leader]

I feel this will lead to problems…

the axis will buy millions of these to drop in africa as opposed to buying naval transports. It will become a primary form of attack if you actually have this unit on the map. Additionally it will become fodder in air combat and used in all sorts of crazy things making the game even more unrealistic.

I maintain the “piece” is only placed as a symbol to note that infantry is being dropped by air into hostile territory and the plane only in this manner can be attacked by enemy planes. I would also say that in air combat these transports are taken last as combat loses.

I would place a national cap on limits for each nation as follows:

Russia: 1 per turn
Germany: 2 per turn
UK: 1 per turn
Japan: 1 per turn
USA: 2 per turn

cost per infantry would now be 1 IPC per unit and you have a choice to drop as friendly transport or drop in enemy territory. If in enemy you get a +1 for the first round.