15L axis-dominion (axis) vs Adam514 (allies +19)

[Adam514]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 18

Purchase Units - ANZAC
            ANZAC buy 1 artillery, 1 infantry, 1 submarine and 2 transports; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - ANZAC

Non Combat Move - ANZAC
            1 fighter moved from Caroline Islands to Philippines
            2 fighters moved from Queensland to Philippines
            1 destroyer moved from 54 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone

Place Units - ANZAC
            2 transports placed in 54 Sea Zone
            1 infantry placed in Queensland
            1 artillery placed in New South Wales
            1 submarine placed in 62 Sea Zone

Turn Complete - ANZAC
            ANZAC collect 22 PUs; end with 22 PUs total
            Objective ANZAC 2 Control Strategic Islands: ANZAC met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 27 PUs

[Adam514]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 18

Combat Move - French

Non Combat Move - French
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Changing ownership of Syria from Japanese to French
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            1 infantry moved from Trans-Jordan to Syria
            1 infantry moved from Trans-Jordan to Egypt

Turn Complete - French

[axis-dominion]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 19

Research Technology - Germans

Purchase Units - Germans
            Germans repair damage of 4x airfield; Remaining resources: 62 PUs;
            Germans buy 1 fighter, 12 infantry and 4 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Germans
            1 infantry moved from France to Holland Belgium
                  Germans take Holland Belgium from British
            1 infantry moved from France to Normandy Bordeaux
            1 infantry moved from Southern France to Normandy Bordeaux
            1 bomber moved from Northern Italy to 109 Sea Zone
            3 infantry moved from Northern Italy to Western Germany
            2 infantry moved from Novgorod to 115 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from 115 Sea Zone to Finland
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Northern Italy to Normandy Bordeaux
            2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers moved from Northern Italy to Western Germany

Combat - Germans
            Battle in Western Germany
                Germans attack with 2 fighters, 3 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers
                Americans defend with 1 airfield, 1 factory_minor, 1 harbour and 2 infantry
                Germans win, taking Western Germany from Americans with 2 fighters, 2 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry
                Casualties for Americans: 2 infantry
            Battle in Finland
                Germans attack with 2 infantry
                British defend with 1 infantry
                Germans win, taking Finland from British with 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
                Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry
                Casualties for British: 1 infantry
            Battle in Normandy Bordeaux
                Germans attack with 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
                British defend with 1 factory_minor, 1 harbour and 1 infantry
                Germans win, taking Normandy Bordeaux from British with 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for British: 1 infantry
            Battle in 109 Sea Zone
                Germans attack with 1 bomber
                Americans defend with 1 transport
                Germans win with 1 bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7
                Casualties for Americans: 1 transport

Non Combat Move - Germans
            1 bomber moved from 109 Sea Zone to France
            1 aaGun moved from Northern Italy to France
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Normandy Bordeaux to Northern Italy
            2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers moved from Western Germany to Northern Italy
            3 infantry moved from Greater Southern Germany to Germany
            1 aaGun moved from Greater Southern Germany to Germany
            1 aaGun moved from Northern Italy to Greater Southern Germany
            1 infantry moved from Southern France to France
            2 fighters moved from Northern Italy to Bryansk
            3 infantry moved from Ukraine to Bryansk
            1 infantry moved from Tambov to Bryansk
            1 infantry moved from Belarus to Bryansk
            1 infantry moved from Vologda to Archangel
            1 infantry moved from Urals to Vologda
            1 infantry moved from Volgograd to Rostov
            1 infantry moved from Rostov to Bryansk
            2 armour and 2 mech_infantrys moved from Bryansk to Caucasus
            1 infantry moved from Northern Italy to France
            1 bomber moved from Bryansk to India
            1 fighter moved from 36 Sea Zone to French Indo China

Place Units - Germans
            1 fighter and 2 mech_infantrys placed in Northern Italy
            2 infantry placed in France
            3 infantry placed in Southern France
            1 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys placed in Volgograd
            3 infantry placed in Ukraine
            3 infantry placed in Novgorod

Turn Complete - Germans
            Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 8
                Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 93 Sea Zone. Rolls: 5,2,5,4
                Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 99 Sea Zone. Rolls: 3,1
                Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 97 Sea Zone. Rolls: 1,1,5,2,4,6,5,4
            Germans collect 55 PUs (8 lost to blockades); end with 55 PUs total
            Objective Germans 6 Control Iraq Or Persia Or Northwest Persia: Germans met a national objective for an additional 2 PUs; end with 57 PUs
            Objective Germans 3 Control Caucasus: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 62 PUs
            Objective Germans 2 Control Novgorod Or Volgograd Or Russia: Germans met a national objective for an additional 10 PUs; end with 72 PUs

[Adam514]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 19

Purchase Units - Russians
            Russians repair damage of 4x factory_major; Remaining resources: 9 PUs;
            Russians buy 3 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Russians
            1 bomber, 1 fighter and 1 infantry moved from Russia to Smolensk

Combat - Russians
            Battle in Smolensk
                Russians attack with 1 bomber, 1 fighter and 1 infantry
                Japanese defend with 1 infantry
                Russians win with 1 bomber and 1 fighter remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry
                Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry

Non Combat Move - Russians
            1 bomber and 1 fighter moved from Smolensk to Russia

Place Units - Russians
            3 infantry placed in Russia

Turn Complete - Russians
            Russians collect 4 PUs; end with 4 PUs total
            Objective Russians 2 Spread Of Communism: Russians met a national objective for an additional 9 PUs; end with 13 PUs

[axis-dominion]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 19

Purchase Units - Japanese
            Japanese buy 4 fighters, 6 infantry and 3 submarines; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 4 SuicideAttackTokens;

Combat Move - Japanese
            1 bomber and 1 fighter moved from Bryansk to Russia

Combat - Japanese
            Air Battle in Russia
                Japanese attacks with 2 units heading to Russia
                Air Battle is over, the remaining bombers go on to their targets
            Strategic bombing raid in Russia
                Bombing raid in Russia rolls: 3 and causes: 3 damage to unit: factory_major
                Bombing raid in Russia causes 3 damage total.
            Cleaning up after air battles

Non Combat Move - Japanese
            1 mech_infantry moved from Kazakhstan to Szechwan
            1 fighter moved from Japan to French Indo China
            1 fighter moved from Japan to 36 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Tambov to Bryansk
            3 mech_infantrys moved from Greater Southern Germany to Northern Italy
            1 mech_infantry moved from Greater Southern Germany to Northern Italy
            1 mech_infantry moved from Greater Southern Germany to Northern Italy
            1 armour moved from Caucasus to Iraq
            2 mech_infantrys moved from Caucasus to Iraq
            1 infantry and 3 mech_infantrys moved from Persia to Iraq
            3 mech_infantrys moved from West India to Persia
            2 mech_infantrys moved from Siberia to Manchuria
            1 infantry moved from Siberia to Amur
            1 infantry moved from Caucasus to Rostov
            1 bomber moved from Russia to Iraq
            1 fighter moved from Russia to Bryansk
            2 mech_infantrys moved from Bryansk to Caucasus

Place Units - Japanese
            3 submarines placed in 36 Sea Zone
            4 fighters placed in Japan
            3 infantry placed in Malaya
            3 infantry placed in Iraq

Turn Complete - Japanese
            Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 4
                Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 80 Sea Zone. Rolls: 4,3,5,3
            Japanese collect 69 PUs (4 lost to blockades); end with 69 PUs total
            Objective Japanese 3 Control Honolulu Or Sydney Or Calcutta Or Western United States: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 74 PUs

[Adam514]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 19

Purchase Units - Americans
            Americans buy 1 bomber, 2 fighters, 3 infantry, 7 submarines and 1 transport; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Americans
                Turning on Edit Mode
                EDIT: Removing units owned by Americans from Philippines: 1 artillery and 1 infantry
                EDIT: Changing ownership of Korea from Japanese to Americans
                EDIT: Adding units owned by Americans to Korea: 1 artillery and 1 infantry
                EDIT: Removing units owned by Americans from 35 Sea Zone: 1 transport
                EDIT: Adding units owned by Americans to 6 Sea Zone: 1 transport
                EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            1 transport moved from 112 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from United Kingdom to 110 Sea Zone
            2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 110 Sea Zone to 112 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from 112 Sea Zone to Western Germany
            1 fighter moved from 112 Sea Zone to Western Germany
            1 infantry moved from Soviet Far East to Siberia
                  Russians take Siberia from Japanese

Combat - Americans
            Americans creates battle in territory 6 Sea Zone
            Battle in Western Germany
                Americans attack with 1 fighter and 2 infantry
                Germans defend with 1 airfield, 1 factory_minor, 1 harbour and 2 infantry
                Americans win, taking Western Germany from Germans with 1 fighter and 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
                Casualties for Germans: 2 infantry

Non Combat Move - Americans
            1 fighter moved from Western Germany to Norway
            2 infantry moved from Quebec to 106 Sea Zone
            2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 106 Sea Zone to 91 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from 91 Sea Zone to Gibraltar
            2 fighters moved from Eastern United States to 110 Sea Zone
            1 carrier moved from 112 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
            1 destroyer moved from 112 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
            1 bomber moved from Eastern United States to Norway
            2 carriers, 1 destroyer, 2 fighters, 1 submarine and 2 tactical_bombers moved from 35 Sea Zone to 6 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Caroline Islands to 33 Sea Zone
            1 artillery, 1 carrier, 1 infantry, 1 submarine and 1 transport moved from 33 Sea Zone to 6 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 6 Sea Zone to Korea
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Hawaiian Islands to 26 Sea Zone
            1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 26 Sea Zone to 6 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 6 Sea Zone to Korea
            1 carrier, 1 destroyer and 3 submarines moved from 26 Sea Zone to 6 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from Western United States to 6 Sea Zone
            2 fighters moved from Wake Island to 6 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Caroline Islands to 6 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Western United States to 10 Sea Zone
            1 artillery, 1 destroyer, 1 infantry, 1 submarine and 1 transport moved from 10 Sea Zone to 26 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 26 Sea Zone to Hawaiian Islands

Place Units - Americans
            3 infantry placed in Norway
            1 bomber and 2 fighters placed in Eastern United States
            1 transport placed in 101 Sea Zone
            7 submarines placed in 10 Sea Zone

Turn Complete - Americans
            Americans collect 68 PUs; end with 68 PUs total
            Objective Americans 2 Outer Territories: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 73 PUs
            Objective Americans 4 Philippines: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 78 PUs
            Objective Americans 3 Defense Obligations: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 83 PUs
            Objective Americans 1 Homeland: Americans met a national objective for an additional 10 PUs; end with 93 PUs

[Adam514]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 19

Purchase Units - Chinese
            Trigger Chinese Loses Burma Road: Chinese has their production frontier changed to: productionChinese_Burma_Road_Closed
            Chinese buy nothing; Remaining resources: 3 PUs;

Combat Move - Chinese

Turn Complete - Chinese
            Chinese collect 0 PUs; end with 3 PUs total

[Adam514]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 19

Purchase Units - British
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Americans from 110 Sea Zone: 1 carrier, 1 destroyer and 2 fighters
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Americans to Gibraltar: 2 fighters
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Americans to 112 Sea Zone: 1 carrier and 1 destroyer
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            British buy 4 artilleries, 1 fighter and 6 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - British
            1 fighter moved from Norway to Finland
            2 artilleries, 3 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from Norway to Finland

Combat - British
            Battle in Finland
                British attack with 2 artilleries, 1 fighter, 3 infantry and 1 mech_infantry
                Germans defend with 1 infantry
                British win, taking Finland from Germans with 2 artilleries, 1 fighter, 3 infantry and 1 mech_infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry

Non Combat Move - British
            1 aaGun moved from Norway to Finland
            1 fighter moved from Norway to Southern Italy
            2 fighters moved from 112 Sea Zone to Southern Italy
            1 fighter moved from Finland to Norway
            3 transports moved from 112 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
            1 aaGun and 5 infantry moved from United Kingdom to 110 Sea Zone
            1 aaGun, 5 infantry and 3 transports moved from 110 Sea Zone to 112 Sea Zone
            1 aaGun and 5 infantry moved from 112 Sea Zone to Norway
            1 infantry moved from Norway to Finland
            1 infantry moved from Union of South Africa to 71 Sea Zone
            1 artillery moved from Union of South Africa to 71 Sea Zone
            1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 71 Sea Zone to 81 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 81 Sea Zone to Egypt
            1 transport moved from 81 Sea Zone to 71 Sea Zone
            1 transport moved from 81 Sea Zone to 71 Sea Zone

Place Units - British
            3 artilleries placed in Egypt
            1 artillery and 2 infantry placed in Union of South Africa
            1 fighter and 2 infantry placed in Southern Italy
            2 infantry placed in United Kingdom

Turn Complete - British
            British collect 34 PUs; end with 34 PUs total
            Objective British 1 Original: British met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 39 PUs

Turn Complete - UK_Pacific

[axis-dominion]

you can skip to franzac

[Adam514]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 19

Purchase Units - ANZAC
            ANZAC buy 1 artillery, 3 infantry and 2 transports; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - ANZAC

Non Combat Move - ANZAC
            3 fighters moved from Philippines to Korea
            1 destroyer moved from 35 Sea Zone to 6 Sea Zone
            1 aaGun and 1 infantry moved from Queensland to 54 Sea Zone
            1 aaGun, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 54 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
            1 aaGun and 1 infantry moved from 35 Sea Zone to Philippines
            1 transport moved from 54 Sea Zone to 46 Sea Zone
            1 artillery moved from New Guinea to 46 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 1 transport moved from 46 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone
            1 artillery moved from 54 Sea Zone to Queensland
            1 artillery moved from New South Wales to Queensland
            1 submarine moved from 62 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone

Place Units - ANZAC
            2 transports placed in 54 Sea Zone
            1 infantry placed in Queensland
            1 artillery and 2 infantry placed in New South Wales

Turn Complete - ANZAC
            ANZAC collect 22 PUs; end with 22 PUs total
            Objective ANZAC 2 Control Strategic Islands: ANZAC met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 27 PUs

[Adam514]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 19

Combat Move - French

Turn Complete - French

[axis-dominion]

ok adam, i’m going to just yield right here. congrats, most brilliant play. my first ever loss as axis, but to a great player.

i can hold on stubbornly for a while longer, but to no avail. axis domain is shrinking, with no real hope of recovery short of miracle dice…but then, what kind of win would that be? it just wouldn’t be right, considering your masterful play.

definitely learned a few good lessons here. for one, i love how you wore me out with your pac play. there was a time where japan was so dominant, but i guess i got too comfortable there and allowed you to catch up and then overcome my defenses. i did things all wrong. not enough of an early push on russia allowed your armies to hold at bryansk for a lot longer than it should’ve been, and not being careful with italy was a huge blunder. i guess that’s why i felt i needed to compensate with a more aggressive japanese push, but then it cost me my dominance on the other side. i was probably better off pushing harder for a pac VC win.

[Soulblighter]

Why didn’t you dow with japan on turn 2. I don’t see any reason you shouldn’t have done just that. Also when you buy the second carrier there was no reason you should have done it.

[axis-dominion]

@Soulblighter:

Why didn’t you dow with japan on turn 2. I don’t see any reason you shouldn’t have done just that. Also when you buy the second carrier there was no reason you should have done it.

well i was actually planning a j3, but i felt the euro axis needed another turn to prepare, since he was going full on europe. i guess i’ll have to look back and carefully review my thinking on that, to see if i was just overly worried about it. as for the carrier, to be honest, i don’t even remember what my thinking was on my earlier purchases…i definitely feel i overbought a bit on german navy, and probably too many japanese tps as well.

[Soulblighter]

@axis-dominion:

@Soulblighter:

Why didn’t you dow with japan on turn 2. I don’t see any reason you shouldn’t have done just that. Also when you buy the second carrier there was no reason you should have done it.

well i was actually planning a j3, but i felt the euro axis needed another turn to prepare, since he was going full on europe. i guess i’ll have to look back and carefully review my thinking on that, to see if i was just overly worried about it. as for the carrier, to be honest, i don’t even remember what my thinking was on my earlier purchases…i definitely feel i overbought a bit on german navy, and probably too many japanese tps as well.

Round 2 he had no pressure from the us on the euro axis side. So you could have done it. He could have grabbed korea, but you would have been able to grab it back easily. As for the german carriers. I am not sure you needed them. Germans can make better use of air-land units then naval units.

[Adam514]

@axis-dominion:

ok adam, i’m going to just yield right here. congrats, most brilliant play. my first ever loss as axis, but to a great player.

i can hold on stubbornly for a while longer, but to no avail. axis domain is shrinking, with no real hope of recovery short of miracle dice…but then, what kind of win would that be? it just wouldn’t be right, considering your masterful play.

definitely learned a few good lessons here. for one, i love how you wore me out with your pac play. there was a time where japan was so dominant, but i guess i got too comfortable there and allowed you to catch up and then overcome my defenses. i did things all wrong. not enough of an early push on russia allowed your armies to hold at bryansk for a lot longer than it should’ve been, and not being careful with italy was a huge blunder. i guess that’s why i felt i needed to compensate with a more aggressive japanese push, but then it cost me my dominance on the other side. i was probably better off pushing harder for a pac VC win.

Very good game! It was quite a close game, just a bit more axis income in rounds 7-8 and it might have ended in a real stalemate. You have very good axis play, though one thing I think is not cost effective are the number of Japanese factories, but that might be just me.

A win from dicing is indeed not an ideal win, but in a dice game it’s a part of the game.

Yeah Japan with 12 transports was scary round 6 lol, had to make sure you couldn’t move towards NSW or Hawaii with them, hence the switch back to mostly Pac buys with US. Bryansk is indeed critical to get the money for the German war effort, but at the same time you used the money to defend Norway with boats and land units to deadzone the coast, it was a trade. Without Japan intervention in Europe though Germany would have been fried.

Very good and fun game again! Definitely watching my bidding vs you in the future.

[Adam514]

Round 2 Japan only had 1 transport…? Not worth declaring war in that case in my opinion.

[Soulblighter]

@Adam514:

Round 2 Japan only had 1 transport…? Not worth declaring war in that case in my opinion.

It is worth declaring war. You can grab Philippines, Kwangtung, Malaya and possibly Shan State as well. Now you don´t get any of the money islands, but you can grab them the next turn. You have 4 tt’s and enough planes to do just that.

[axis-dominion]

@Adam514:

@axis-dominion:

ok adam, i’m going to just yield right here. congrats, most brilliant play. my first ever loss as axis, but to a great player.

i can hold on stubbornly for a while longer, but to no avail. axis domain is shrinking, with no real hope of recovery short of miracle dice…but then, what kind of win would that be? it just wouldn’t be right, considering your masterful play.

definitely learned a few good lessons here. for one, i love how you wore me out with your pac play. there was a time where japan was so dominant, but i guess i got too comfortable there and allowed you to catch up and then overcome my defenses. i did things all wrong. not enough of an early push on russia allowed your armies to hold at bryansk for a lot longer than it should’ve been, and not being careful with italy was a huge blunder. i guess that’s why i felt i needed to compensate with a more aggressive japanese push, but then it cost me my dominance on the other side. i was probably better off pushing harder for a pac VC win.

Very good game! It was quite a close game, just a bit more axis income in rounds 7-8 and it might have ended in a real stalemate. You have very good axis play, though one thing I think is not cost effective are the number of Japanese factories, but that might be just me.

A win from dicing is indeed not an ideal win, but in a dice game it’s a part of the game.

Yeah Japan with 12 transports was scary round 6 lol, had to make sure you couldn’t move towards NSW or Hawaii with them, hence the switch back to mostly Pac buys with US. Bryansk is indeed critical to get the money for the German war effort, but at the same time you used the money to defend Norway with boats and land units to deadzone the coast, it was a trade. Without Japan intervention in Europe though Germany would have been fried.

Very good and fun game again! Definitely watching my bidding vs you in the future.

yah, i was thinking the same thing about too many factories…i guess i felt i had to keep shortening my supply lines, as i had to keep pushing further and further out. but i agree, way too many.

i look forward to a rematch, but only after a few days of rest :) i need to lick my wounds and also look back and review things a bit

[Adam514]

@Soulblighter:

@Adam514:

Round 2 Japan only had 1 transport…? Not worth declaring war in that case in my opinion.

It is worth declaring war. You can grab Philippines, Kwangtung, Malaya and possibly Shan State as well. Now you don�t get any of the money islands, but you can grab them the next turn. You have 4 tt’s and enough planes to do just that.

Well I’m sure that we can agree that Japan’s position on round 2, with heavy implication vs Russia including a tp, did not make for a good potential J2. Usually J2 has 3 tps ready to take islands, and sometimes 2 when they see an opportunity like no US builds in Atlantic, but just 1 doesn’t cut it imo.