Interesting, thanks!
So, what about adding 2 dreadnoughts each to the UK & German home fleets?
(along with reducing the French Biscay BB, and maybe the Russia, and adding one to the US fleet)
Would this ruin the game balance, or would the 4 new ships effectively cancel each other out?
Would it make German dominance of the Baltic too easy, or would the UK be able to nip in and smash the rest of the HSF if the Germans sent a task force to the east?
Would a decisive R1 Jutland effectively decide the game right at the beginning?
Okay, here is something I don’t get. You divided total battleships by 10 to get roughly what should be in the game setup, yet you divided the total cruisers by 15. Why the different numbers for the two types of ship?
It would be more logic to divide by 4 or multiples of that. So 8, 16, 32 would be more appopiate numbers.
UK:
Full Cruiser Squadron = 4 Ships
Full Destroyer Flottilla = 8 Ships
DIfferent number are correct as more powerful ships are accompanied by larger numbers of lesser types.
Say 4 DNs, 8 CR, 16 DS
I was thinking something along the lines of this. Note that I cut the number of German subs in half (They had less than 30 when the war started). I also put one of their cruisers off the coast of Africa (This represents ships they had there plus the West Indies, as well as the Far East Squadron, which historically made its way to the Atlantic to cause mischief). I also gave the Germans a transport, because it seems implausible they wouldn’t have one. I did not do likewise for the US, since they would not yet have paid the cost of diverting civlian ships to military use. I also subtracted 1 British cruiser and half the US Navy to represent units assigned to the Pacific. Does anyone see any obvious game breakers here?
Austria-Hungary
• Sea Zone 18: 1 Battleship, 1 Cruiser, 1 Transport
Russian Empire
• Sea Zone 12: 1 Battleship
• Sea Zone 21: 1 Cruiser
Germany
• Sea Zone 5: 1 Submarine
• Sea Zone 7: 1 Submarine
• Sea Zone 10: 3 Battleships, 2 Cruisers, 1 Transport
• Sea Zone 24: 1 Cruiser
France
• Sea Zone 15: 1 Cruiser, 1 Transport
• Sea Zone 16: 1 Battleship, 1 Cruiser, 2 Transports
British Empire
• Sea Zone 2: 1 Cruiser, 1 Transport
• Sea Zone 9: 4 Battleships, 3 Cruisers, 1 Transport
• Sea Zone 19: 2 Battleship, 1 Cruiser, 1 Transport
• Sea Zone 29: 1 Cruiser, 1 Transport
Ottoman Empire
• Sea Zone 20: 1 Cruiser
Italy
• Sea Zone 17: 1 Battleship, 1 Cruiser, 1 Transport
United States
• Sea Zone 1: 1 Battleship, 1 Cruiser
Seems a little too many UK BBs for balance; I’d have 3 in the home fleet, 1 in the med.
OR split up the home fleet with some ships in SZ 8? (and start a German BB in SZ11?)
The German cruiser off Africa I’d place in SZ 26, within striking distance of the British Med fleet:
France should not have 3 transports
Just split the uk home fleet into 2-3 SZs like in G40
Too many DNs makes shore bombardment FAR too strong!
I agree with Flashman for UK:
3 DNs Home Fleet, 1 in the Med;
all other nations accordingly!
Without detailed check IL’s numbers seem fine!
(I would distribute submarines differently though)
If you add all sorts of new ships, you need a mechanism to protect the navy from annihilation like allowing ports to safeguard ships from naval combat.
Once a super naval power sacks a poor nation of her navy, the propensity to rebuild over time is impossible. I would have ships in port some protection, either total immunity from naval combat or all ships in port take double hits.
Perhaps allow ships to be built on land territories as an option. So you can build up a fleet in safety.
While on land, it can’t be attacked, it also can’t move any farther than into the adjacent sea zone.
Likewise, if you lose that land territory, you lose that ship as well.
You could start with more ships on the board, if you move some on to land (imagine they are in a dry dock)
I don’t think I would allow ships to WILLINGLY move on to land, but only allow new ships to be built there.
Well you don’t need to use the language “ships on land” just ships in port. If the attached land area is taken the ships are dislodged in the adjacent SZ.
I guess saving IPCs is how you build a bigger fleet. Sit on a bunch of money, then plop out a bunch of boats.
An easy way to lose the game.
Don’t the minefield rules already effectively protect ships next to their home port? Or do you think a 1 in 6 chance of losing a ship during movement is an insufficient deterrent? I suppose you could also give ships “in port” a defensive bonus or some sort. Maybe defending cruisers take two hits to destroy, and battleships three? Or, if that is too powerful, perhaps the port acts as a naval version of a tank, and the first hit each round of combat against the defender is ignored?
If you want to expand the history lesson you can also discuss LOCATION!
Example UK:
-> The Indian fleet did not possess any DNs!
-> UK sent a big pre-DN-fleet in the Meditteranean for Gallipoli, the main Grand Fleet was stationed in Scapa Flow.So - of course - no Indian DN!
One DN piece (representing the Pre-DNs) in the Med en route to Alexandria, 2 or 3 DNs depending on how many you want to give them in the Firth of Forth.History & geography!
Just so you know, Scapa Flow is right in the middle of the Orkney Isles at the north point of Scotland, the Firth of Forth is the mouth of the River Forth at the north end of Edinburgh.
Don’t the minefield rules already effectively protect ships next to their home port?
They really don’t, all they do is provide ‘road apples’ for enemy fleets
I was thinking something along the lines of this. Note that I cut the number of German subs in half (They had less than 30 when the war started). I also put one of their cruisers off the coast of Africa (This represents ships they had there plus the West Indies, as well as the Far East Squadron, which historically made its way to the Atlantic to cause mischief). I also gave the Germans a transport, because it seems implausible they wouldn’t have one. I did not do likewise for the US, since they would not yet have paid the cost of diverting civlian ships to military use. I also subtracted 1 British cruiser and half the US Navy to represent units assigned to the Pacific. Does anyone see any obvious game breakers here?
Austria-Hungary
• Sea Zone 18: 1 Battleship, 1 Cruiser, 1 Transport
Russian Empire
• Sea Zone 12: 1 Battleship
• Sea Zone 21: 1 Cruiser
Germany
• Sea Zone 5: 1 Submarine
• Sea Zone 7: 1 Submarine
• Sea Zone 10: 3 Battleships, 2 Cruisers, 1 Transport
• Sea Zone 24: 1 Cruiser
France
• Sea Zone 15: 1 Cruiser, 1 Transport
• Sea Zone 16: 1 Battleship, 1 Cruiser, 2 Transports
British Empire
• Sea Zone 2: 1 Cruiser, 1 Transport
• Sea Zone 9: 4 Battleships, 3 Cruisers, 1 Transport
• Sea Zone 19: 2 Battleship, 1 Cruiser, 1 Transport
• Sea Zone 29: 1 Cruiser, 1 Transport
Ottoman Empire
• Sea Zone 20: 1 Cruiser
Italy
• Sea Zone 17: 1 Battleship, 1 Cruiser, 1 Transport
United States
• Sea Zone 1: 1 Battleship, 1 Cruiser
Britain did not have twice as many Dreadnaughts as Germany.
Kim
What about this?
Austria-Hungary
• Sea Zone 18: 1 Battleship, 1 Cruiser, 1 Transport
Russian Empire
• Sea Zone 12: 1 Battleship, 1 Sub, 1 Transport
• Sea Zone 21: 1 Cruiser, 1 Submarine
Germany
• Sea Zone 5: 1 Submarine
• Sea Zone 7: 2 Submarines
• Sea Zone 10: 2 Battleships, 2 Cruisers, 1 Transport
• Sea Zone 11: 1 Submarine
• Sea Zone 24: 1 Cruiser
France
• Sea Zone 15: 1 Cruiser, 1 Transport
• Sea Zone 16: 1 Submarine, 1 Battleship, 1 Cruiser, 1 Transport
British Empire
• Sea Zone 2: 1 Cruiser, 1 Transport
• Sea Zone 9: 2 Battleships, 1 Cruiser, 1 Transport
• Sea Zone 19: 1 Battleship, , 1 Transport
• Sea Zone 29: 1 Cruiser, 1 Transport
• Sea Zone 4: 1 Battleship, 1 Cruiser
• Sea Zone 8: 1 Transport
Ottoman Empire
• Sea Zone 20: 1 Cruiser, 1 Submarine
Italy
• Sea Zone 17: 1 Battleship, 1 Cruiser, 1 Transport
United States
• Sea Zone 1: 1 Battleship, 1 Cruiser
Correct!
Just got away with my own game in which the whole SZ on the British North-East Coast is named “Firth of Forth” including Scapa FLow.
Sorry for confusion!
What about this?
Austria-Hungary
•  Sea Zone 18: 1 Battleship, 1 Cruiser, 1 Transport
Russian Empire
•  Sea Zone 12: 1 Battleship, 1 Sub, 1 Transport
•  Sea Zone 21: 1 Cruiser, 1 Submarine
Germany
•  Sea Zone 5: 1 Submarine
•  Sea Zone 7: 2 Submarines
•  Sea Zone 10: 2 Battleships, 2 Cruisers, 1 Transport
•  Sea Zone 11: 1 Submarine
•  Sea Zone 24: 1 Cruiser
France
•  Sea Zone 15: 1 Cruiser, 1 Transport
•  Sea Zone 16: 1 Submarine, 1 Battleship, 1 Cruiser, 1 Transport
British Empire
•  Sea Zone 2: 1 Cruiser, 1 Transport
•  Sea Zone 9: 2 Battleships, 1 Cruiser, 1 Transport
•  Sea Zone 19: 1 Battleship, , 1 Transport
•  Sea Zone 29: 1 Cruiser, 1 Transport
•  Sea Zone 4: 1 Battleship, 1 Cruiser
•  Sea Zone 8: 1 Transport
Ottoman Empire
•  Sea Zone 20: 1 Cruiser, 1 Submarine
Italy
•  Sea Zone 17: 1 Battleship, 1 Cruiser, 1 Transport
United States
•  Sea Zone 1: 1 Battleship, 1 Cruiser
Turkey has a sub and England has none? I don’t think so. the Turks had only a single sub the entire war. Britain had 74 subs when the war started. England HAS to have some subs represented.
The ratio of UK Dreadnaughts to Germans should be 3:2
Kim
"Britain did not have twice as many Dreadnaughts as Germany.
Kim"
Hi, Kim,
Yes, that’s true. It was more like 3-2 in August 1914 (34-21). But they had almost twice as many pre-Dreadnaught battleships (41-22). It all depends on how much you want to weigh pre-DN vs. post-DN for combat power. I arbitrarily assumed a pre-DN to be about 60% as effective as a post-DN.
"Britain did not have twice as many Dreadnaughts as Germany.
Kim"
Hi, Kim,
Yes, that’s true. It was more like 3-2 in August 1914 (34-21). But they had almost twice as many pre-Dreadnaught battleships (41-22). It all depends on how much you want to weigh pre-DN vs. post-DN for combat power. I arbitrarily assumed a pre-DN to be about 60% as effective as a post-DN.
England pulled out most all her pre-dreads from first line service (though they did get used in the med). At Jutland, the Germans did bring 6 PD’s, but there expected value was so low they were called “5 minute ships” because that’s what they considered there life expectancy in a stand up fight.
A PD usually only had 4 main guns compared to the 10-12 guns on a Dread. At best, considering there very slow speed and inferior armor (and useless secondary guns) I would only represent them as a “battleship” at about 20-25% (and that’s a gimme).
If you figure at that, the ratio would be more like 8 to 5 or 9 to 5, which would be around a 3.5 to 2 ratio.
For play balance, you need to make that 3 to 2.
I would put UK at 3, Germany at 2, and everyone else at 0-1 (considering some US ships in the Pacific). For sure the French DO NOT have more then the Germans!
Kim
