@simon33
Nice suggestion about stopping the early crush. I think this should work!
J3/J4 India crush?
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Take the DEI, subdue China and deny Calcutta resources via taking their islands and convoying them.
Ok, this sounds interesting. So a couple Q’s here–-
1) in taking the DEI, you’ve now awaken the “sleeping Giant” & are now @ war w/all the Allies. who will probably start steaming towards that position–so how many rounds does it take to starve them out til you take them over & don’t have to deal w/ them anymore so you can now devote attentions to the US & ANZAC?
2) when you say “subdue China”–how much are we talking about here?
3) the issue w/ taking their islands & convoying them—I’m assuming we’re taking Borneo (4ipc), but are we also taking Malaya (3ipc) & Hong Kong (3ipc)?
4) Then there’s the Philippines-- w/ the US now in the war, are the US Air & Sea units there anything to deal w/ usually & what are they likely to do once you’ve made this move?
5) are all your ships in the SE Sea for this maneuver, as it will take them a couple rounds to get there–then the jigs up? Or are some held back to deal w/ the US & ANZAC? IE; what about the CV (w/fghtrs) & the DD in sz33?As I said, this all sounds very interesting & I’m gonna give it a whirl, but if its not too much trouble, could you give me a more detailed “round by round” of How, Where & w/ What you normally do this w/ the factors & Q’s listed above?
Once at war with the UK, you can effectively starve them of resources quickly between convoys and denying them DEI/NO’s. If the UK is placing 2-3 Inf a turn, who cares as long as you have China locked up.
Now locking China up gets tricky, and my personal preference is a Minor somewhere in SE Asia so that you don’t have to worry about defending unit placement in SZ6 which is likely always going to be under threat from US warships making their way out of the SF Harbor and to Hawaii. So consider at least a single Minor and possibly 2 of them in SE Asia.
As for dealing with China, the one thing to remember is that you have the advantage because their counter attacks are relegated to Inf and a single Ftr. The UK throws a wrench in subduing China the longer you allow them put offensive units on the board. In the end, as Japan I’ll trade Aircraft to eliminate the UK offensive punch and crush Burma - but that has to be an all-in move - which is why having 1-2 Minors in SE Asia allows you to either replace aircraft or keep pumping Mech’s until you break the UK’s back as it tries to reinforce Burma.
Once you’ve gotten your DEI and the NO, subdued Burma and choked India you can claim India rather easily and keep the US deciding what to do in the Pacific while your fleet is lying in wait to pounce on any US incursions that splits its fleet. I’d never attack a US fleet unless I had secured my rear, rather enjoying 3 scrambled aircraft from Flip plus a large fleet contingent thats not convoying India.
Long story short, subdue China, choke the UK, take and hold the DEI and then you can launch yourself 6-9 SS and put the US fleet on its heels as you relocate to strike out towards either Anzac or Hawaii.
There is a lot more to this, but thats the general outline - subdue, choke and expand. Even with an early US entry into the war, the longer you make the US spend in the Pacific, the bigger favor you are doing for Germany’s Europe VC win.
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US Fleet off of Queensland can threaten the entire DEI, Malaya, Philippines, and Caroline Islands… I do this almost every game that Japan does not J1.
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Ur navy needs to be off malaya, and either burma or sumatra to prevent the block
If you are willing, you can just use Aircraft and screening ships to clear the way and NCM through with the ships you don’t need for the invasion. Food for thought for those of you facing blocking strategies.
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US Fleet off of Queensland can threaten the entire DEI, Malaya, Philippines, and Caroline Islands… I do this almost every game that Japan does not J1.
Thanx, I see now, I was missing the space count & forgetting the Naval base on Queensland–makes sense. But you mentioned when Japan doesn’t DOW on J1, what if they did?
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Take the DEI, subdue China and deny Calcutta resources via taking their islands and convoying them.
Ok, this sounds interesting. So a couple Q’s here–-
1) in taking the DEI, you’ve now awaken the “sleeping Giant” & are now @ war w/all the Allies. who will probably start steaming towards that position–so how many rounds does it take to starve them out til you take them over & don’t have to deal w/ them anymore so you can now devote attentions to the US & ANZAC?
2) when you say “subdue China”–how much are we talking about here?
3) the issue w/ taking their islands & convoying them—I’m assuming we’re taking Borneo (4ipc), but are we also taking Malaya (3ipc) & Hong Kong (3ipc)?
4) Then there’s the Philippines-- w/ the US now in the war, are the US Air & Sea units there anything to deal w/ usually & what are they likely to do once you’ve made this move?
5) are all your ships in the SE Sea for this maneuver, as it will take them a couple rounds to get there–then the jigs up? Or are some held back to deal w/ the US & ANZAC? IE; what about the CV (w/fghtrs) & the DD in sz33?As I said, this all sounds very interesting & I’m gonna give it a whirl, but if its not too much trouble, could you give me a more detailed “round by round” of How, Where & w/ What you normally do this w/ the factors & Q’s listed above?
Once at war with the UK, you can effectively starve them of resources quickly between convoys and denying them DEI/NO’s. If the UK is placing 2-3 Inf a turn, who cares as long as you have China locked up.
Now locking China up gets tricky, and my personal preference is a Minor somewhere in SE Asia so that you don’t have to worry about defending unit placement in SZ6 which is likely always going to be under threat from US warships making their way out of the SF Harbor and to Hawaii. So consider at least a single Minor and possibly 2 of them in SE Asia.
As for dealing with China, the one thing to remember is that you have the advantage because their counter attacks are relegated to Inf and a single Ftr. The UK throws a wrench in subduing China the longer you allow them put offensive units on the board. In the end, as Japan I’ll trade Aircraft to eliminate the UK offensive punch and crush Burma - but that has to be an all-in move - which is why having 1-2 Minors in SE Asia allows you to either replace aircraft or keep pumping Mech’s until you break the UK’s back as it tries to reinforce Burma.
Once you’ve gotten your DEI and the NO, subdued Burma and choked India you can claim India rather easily and keep the US deciding what to do in the Pacific while your fleet is lying in wait to pounce on any US incursions that splits its fleet. I’d never attack a US fleet unless I had secured my rear, rather enjoying 3 scrambled aircraft from Flip plus a large fleet contingent thats not convoying India.
Long story short, subdue China, choke the UK, take and hold the DEI and then you can launch yourself 6-9 SS and put the US fleet on its heels as you relocate to strike out towards either Anzac or Hawaii.
There is a lot more to this, but thats the general outline - subdue, choke and expand. Even with an early US entry into the war, the longer you make the US spend in the Pacific, the bigger favor you are doing for Germany’s Europe VC win.
Awesome :-o My only other back-thought on this one is–-when the Allies kinda figure out whats happening on J1 or J2, what happens to the to the plan if Russia decides to DOW on either R2-3? Seems like good opportunity for Allies to Hit Japan in the north (with all the extra troops that Russia gets with Global–that always get moved into Amur on R1 NCM), since all the main push is heading south & west thru China! Seems hard/scary for Japan to defend her rear in the North while pushing South & West? Or do you not see this happening with the “India Crush” move you describe?
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Awesome :-o My only other back-thought on this one is–-when the Allies kinda figure out whats happening on J1 or J2, what happens to the to the plan if Russia decides to DOW on either R2-3? Seems like good opportunity for Allies to Hit Japan in the north (with all the extra troops that Russia gets with Global–that always get moved into Amur on R1 NCM), since all the main push is heading south & west thru China! Seems hard/scary for Japan to defend her rear in the North while pushing South & West? Or do you not see this happening with the “India Crush” move you describe?
The Allies have so little in the theatre there is pretty much bupkiss they can do if they suss out Japan’s schemes or not. It’s usually a bad move for Russia to stack Amur R1 since Japan has enough planes and fodder to counter-attack J1 and clean them out with little loss. So you delayed Japan’s plans by 1 turn and now Russia has nothing at all to use in the Pacific. There is more than enough time to attack Russia with planes J1, move the planes into position J2, and still have plenty available to crush India J3. If not you can buy yourself some time and just wait until J4. Keep in mind also that Japan can nearly abandon China entirely and still be a huge menace in the Pacific. As long as you take and hold the DEI Japan will have 40+ income without China, which is more than enough to compete with a US player that will be forced to start raising their European spending at some point. If you hold Korea, the Philippines, your starting islands and the DEI, then you bank 36 IPC each turn. So if you also hold Malaya, Kwangtung, and Manchuria, now you’re up to 45. Take a another small share of Chinese or UK-Pacific territory and you are easily up to 50. It’s extremely difficult to really get Japan down in income if they don’t throw their fleet or air force away needlessly.
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Japan doesn’t really have to defend her “rear” as its pretty difficult for the US to get enough TT in position to land on Tokyo and claim it before the late-midgame. In fact, not saying its not possible, but I have seen Tokyo fall once. However that was more out of a “to say I did it” than anything else as the Pacific board was decide many turns before that occurred.
You do have to be cognizant of Convoys on SZ6 as it does represent income loss, but it also requires the US to maintain ships there, which are easily accessible via Flip if you base your fleet out of there. Perhaps the biggest threat is a US minor in Korea, but even that is negligible if you’ve already subdued China, choked India and laid claim to the DEI. Particularly because you would be focused on finishing off your VC wins and the Allies would be focusing on protecting Hawaii and Sydney and not maintaining a convoy on you if you elect to clear those SS out.
Honestly after you vacate SZ6 and have established your Minors elsewhere any attacks on Tokyo’s Major are not as significant as say West Germany, Berlin or London getting SBR’d. I wouldn’t sweat it if you’ve already positioned yourself with minors in other locations as I doubt you’ll be placing more than 6 units / round later in the game with Japan unless you expect the US to gambit on taking Tokyo before you can secure a VC win and feel putting a chunk of Inf on Tokyo would put a wrench in their plans.
I’m not saying to just hand the US the convoy, keeping a DD or two and a Ftr on Tokyo forces the US to probably commit more than it wants to to establish a convoy outside of a US player putting the entire US fleet there.
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To answer rmcbride’s question from the earlier page, yes, my J3 crush plan exploits the ability of a neutral Japan to move past any UK ships to end up in position adjacent to India. Move while neutral in J2, then declare war in J3 if needed. UK and ANZAC would have to declare war on UK1 to stop the fleet moving into position.
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Ur navy needs to be off malaya, and either burma or sumatra to prevent the block
If you are willing, you can just use Aircraft and screening ships to clear the way and NCM through with the ships you don’t need for the invasion. Food for thought for those of you facing blocking strategies.
It still delays a turn, so it would be a J4 attack then.
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@Eggman:
Taking the DEI (and attacking UK/ANZAC) does not result in war with the USA.� Only attacking USA will result in bringing them into the war
That’s strictly true but very misleading, since what USA player is not going to DoW Japan as soon as they are allowed?
Thats right, It is very misleading, because per the AAG40-2e rules on pg37, US, Political Situation, 3rd sentence “The US may NOT DOW on any axis pwr unless an Axis pwr DOW’s it 1st–-------------- or Japan makes an unprovoked DOW against the UK or ANZAC, after which the US can DOW any or all Axis pwrs on its following turn”.
Thus, Eggman is right & kinda where my point was heading–“You’ve awakened a Sleeping Giant” & what US player isn’t going to DOW Japan as soon as it can? So in hitting the UK or ANZAC, you’ve just allowed the US to do what they’ve been waiting & building to do----jump into the War @ their earliest opportunity, which would be now—so Japs have to have their duck’s in order to prep for this, Just Saying :-)
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Thus, Eggman is right & kinda where my point was heading–“You’ve awakened a Sleeping Giant” & what US player isn’t going to DOW Japan as soon as it can?
The fact that a Japanese attack on UK/ANZAC doesn’t instantly make them at war with the US matters slightly, though- since if Japan doesn’t also DoW the USA on that same turn, then the US units are still not hostile during Japan’s combat & non-combat movement. Of course, I’ve never been in a game where Japan decided to DoW the UK/ANZAC only, but that is an option for them.
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@Eggman:
Thus, Eggman is right & kinda where my point was heading–“You’ve awakened a Sleeping Giant” & what US player isn’t going to DOW Japan as soon as it can?
The fact that a Japanese attack on UK/ANZAC doesn’t instantly make them at war with the US matters slightly, though- since if Japan doesn’t also DoW the USA on that same turn, then the US units are still not hostile during Japan’s combat & non-combat movement. Of course, I’ve never been in a game where Japan decided to DoW the UK/ANZAC only, but that is an option for them.
But what advantage is this to Japan for this turn, since US will most likely DOW Japan on Next turn US right after Japan’s NCM?
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@Eggman:
Thus, Eggman is right & kinda where my point was heading–“You’ve awakened a Sleeping Giant” & what US player isn’t going to DOW Japan as soon as it can?
The fact that a Japanese attack on UK/ANZAC doesn’t instantly make them at war with the US matters slightly, though- since if Japan doesn’t also DoW the USA on that same turn, then the US units are still not hostile during Japan’s combat & non-combat movement. Of course, I’ve never been in a game where Japan decided to DoW the UK/ANZAC only, but that is an option for them.
But what advantage is this to Japan for this turn, since US will most likely DOW Japan on Next turn US right after Japan’s NCM?
US can’t block of course.
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I guess the potential for that being launching from the Carolines and taking Anzac first with US ships in position off Queensland?
Bonus of being able to be the defending fleet if the US remains on their turn or forcing the US back to Hawaii to the nearest friendly NB?
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I guess the potential for that being launching from the Carolines and taking Anzac first with US ships in position off Queensland?
Bonus of being able to be the defending fleet if the US remains on their turn or forcing the US back to Hawaii to the nearest friendly NB?
Yes. With added bonus of being able to afford taking the Carriers as early hits for Japan, since your Fighters can now land on Queensland.
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rmcbride, replies below are in red….
This is what people usually mean when they say “J3 India crush”:
J1 build 3 transports. �Take Chahar, Anhwe, Hunan, Yunnan. �Land all planes in Kwangsi and all fleet in z36 with transports loaded. �Leave FIC alone for now.
J2 Declare war on all Allies. �Build airbase and naval base in Kwangsi. Sink destroyer in z37 and any other ships that could attack z36 or block transports route from z36 to z39. �Dump 3 transports and 2 Siam guys on Shan State. �Airstrike Burma or Malaya if necessary to stop any attack on shan. �Put fleet in z38 and 3 loaded transports in z36.
J3 take India and land planes in shan state. �
(or you could do what Spendo said and starve them while you walk down thru china)
�Hey Variance, I respect your play alot as I’ve read these threads & thanks for answering this one, so I would love to try this scenario also but have a few Q’s for you if you could expand on this––You were very detailed in your steps for this, so I’d like to be as detailed in my Q’s that this has prompted as well :-)
J1) 1)–when you say “land all planes in Kwansi”, I’m counting, for just land based units Japan starts with;8-fghtrs, 5-Tac’s & 2-Bombers. So these planes only or are you also talking about CV based fightrs as well?
Land each and every plane you have in Kwangsi, except the 1 fighter from Korea that will land on a carrier next to Kwangsi. So that’s 10 fighters, 8 tacs, and 2 bombers, plus 1 fighter on the carrier. The reason you put all your planes in Kwangsi is so you can airstrike Burma if they stack it.2)–all fleet in sz36; do you mean EVERY available Sea unit? & what about the units in sz33, as they obviously can’t make it on J1, as well as that would leave Caroline Island & its resources open to US invasion on US1?
Each and every ship. The ships in z33 can go through z35 because you are not yet at war with USA.3-transports loaded; I only count 3-trnsprts that Japan starts w/on the board; 1-sz6, 1-sz19 & 1-sz20. So if I’m taking all my eastern China units to take out the 4-China territories you listed (that leaves the trns in sz20 w/o available units). So are you talking about just he one in sz6 or are you also loading the one from sz19 w/ units from Manchuria or Korea, which would make only 2 w/4-inf?
Bring 3 infantry, 2 artillery, 1 tank from Manchuria, Shantung, Japan. Move everything else to Anhwe/JeholJ2) 1)–DOW on Allies—thats a Big One! The US is definitely gonna come a runnin :? Which would beg the question–with all that loot now, what are the Germans & Italians gonna do to divert the Pacific attention away from the US so the Japs can grab the Victory cities before US gets to big in the Pacific, since I presume that w/ the “Crush India” strategy, thats what this is about?
G1 naval build for sealion threat2)–build Air & Naval in Kwangsi; I’m guessing that you have no fear of Kwangtung walking in w/one or 2 inf to Kwangsi to capture the unprotected Air & Naval just placed for a one round disruption of the plan (because then Hong Kong could just be taken on the next round anyway, Right? & speaking of HK, when or what is the plan there?
You have plenty of ground coming down from Anhwe3)–when you say "sink DD in sz37 & othr ships that could attack sz36; the sz37 is actually a BB–but ok. Then there’s the US-DD & SS in sz35, are you just diverting 1-DD from the sz36 for the SS detection & then hitting them w/CV fighters for the wipe out? & is this coming from the 1-CV from sz33 or what is your thinking there?
By J2 the BB will be long gone and they will put the destroyer blocker there 99% of the time to save India for another turn4)–dumping 3-trns & Siam inf on Shan State; I presume those are the trans that were w/ the fleet from J1 (although I only had a possible count of 2-per my previous assessment, unless I misunderstood) & their going into sz38 to unload w/ the balance of the fleet? Then the 3-loaded trns to be in sz36 were the ones purchased during J1, coming from sz6?
yes.J3 1)–take India & land planes in Shan State; Got that one!
So now w/ India out of the picture, w/ maybe another round of clean-up, is the strategy to take out China’s threat entirely or just keep them @ bay while you start gearing up for the US & ANZAC? Because by my count, including Hong Kong, you should have 4-Victory cities, 5-soon counting Manila. But the US fleet should be well on their way, if not already there. So 1-more VC to get, but is it going to be Sydney or Honolulu? Seems like the way it should play out is that Sydney would be the more unprotected, but I don’t know? After J3 & since you hadn’t discussed the DEI, that they’ll be trying to acquire for more IPC & to help the UK, that 6th VC could be a pretty hard get??? But after J3, who wants the game to end that quickly anyway 8-)
Hawaii is a much better target than Sydney. Take Midway and try to get USA stuck in an arms race by building carriers for all your planes. That way they cant be much help in Europe and without India Germany will have a MUCH easier time getting Cairo after Moscow, IF the Italians are still afloat. Notice how on J3 you might not actually have to move carriers to z39 if the Brits navy have fled. Like others pointed out, it is very important that you keep the pathway from z36 to z39 open for the transports, and you make sure you can’t lose Shan, which is why you airstrike Burma if they stack it.Should be a fun play!!! So if you could please refine the above Q’s with some further detail, that would be great! I’m all about playing & figuring it out, but with someone else’s idea of a whole new strategy, I don’t want to screw it up 2-3 times just trying to get to the way it should have been played for the 1st 3-4 rounds, after that–-its anybody’s game anyway based on the counter moves & how the dice fell :roll: So thanx again, look forward to the follow-up.
For more and better info about the j3 india crush scenario, look up old posts by CMDR Jennifer. Good luck with it
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