XDAP03 Norse elite vs. TeamBoldDutch

[boldfresh]

this is the email Veq sent me when i asked about the convoy issue - i didn’t really read it closely as i have been so busy with work and i didn’t realize that if either the map or the triplea version was out of date, it could have other implications to our game…

my PM to Veq:

Hey V,

Convoy disruption is determined by
rolling now right?  in your game, i
had 10 convoy disruption docked
from germany’s income and i
received dice rolls for the subs.

in the norse elite/teambolddutch game
i got 2 lost due to german sub in 106 but
got no rolls from Marti.  in addition, every time i run the turn
it results in 2 ipc lost so it would appear this is happening automatically,
not as a result of die rolls?

what are we doing wrong, if anything?  do we have to set something up differently in the game from the beginning?

Veq’s response:

rolling for convoy disruption was added with triplea 1.6.1.2 and a very recent version of the Global 1940 map (like version 3.1 or something)

so, if you are using an OLDER version of the game engine (triplea)

OR you are using an older version of the map file (global 1940)

then the convoy rolling will not happen

instead of rolling, the old way is to simply deduct 1 income (for each roll that would have happened)

1 income is the exact average result of 1 roll, so the overall effect is the same

anyway, depending on Dutch’s feelings on the issue, i’m probably ok with continuing from where we are now (just converting to the proper map) - minimal issue in my mind since the only things that could have possibly been different are the convoy disruption roll for the german sub and the bombing roll for the 2 strat bombers and they were basically both dead on average.

[Veqryn]

@Boldfresh:

i likewise thank you Veq.� amazing work you have done.� all we need to do is decide how best to handle the damage roll (11 is average, 12 was the actual shown, whether or not it is valid, we are not far from average anyway) and upgrade to map version 3.3.

i can’t comment on the damage because without recreating it i do not know if it is a bug or not, and i can’t recreate it because i am already using a newer (and fixed) version.

you are welcome.  these kinds of things (the program) do not just appear out of nowhere, fully formed.  they take a lot of work.

I have been working on getting TripleA to run Global for about 1.5 years now, and only since about August does it do it.  
All versions prior to version 3.0 were beta test versions.  Only version 3.0 actually follows all the rules, and of course there were small fixes in 3.1, 3.2, and 3.3 because this map is complicated as hell and noone except krieg knows all the rules by heart.

FYI on the rules:
Tactical Bombers may target only bases.  Bombers may target everything.
If a territory contains no bases, then tacticals may not be sent to bomb that territory.
After the escort/interception battle, you THEN assign which surviving bomber/tactical is targeting which infrastructure.
Then AA hits will occur, after that any survivors roll for damage.

[Veqryn]

@Boldfresh:

i didn’t realize that if either the map or the triplea version was out of date, it could have other implications to our game…

Yes, both the map and the engine must be up to date.

This is because the newer map contains newer features that are only available in the latest version of triplea.

so if EITHER is out of date, it will not use those features (like the convoy rolling dice)

To update TripleA:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/tripleamaps/files/TripleA/stable/

To update the map through triplea, watch this video:
http://www.desura.com/games/triplea/videos/how-to-download-maps

To update the map manually, download here:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/tripleamaps/files/maps/

[Veqryn]

And all players must be updated at least for the engine.

If Bold is using engine 1.6.1.2, and I am using 1.6.1.0, then during my turn when I play, any bugs in 1.6.1 will affect the game.

As far as the map goes, whoever starts the game determines what map is used.  After that, the map is inside the game save and does not change (it is game data).

[Ghostglider]

Do all agree that we continue from the G2-map but using the latest version of both map and TripleA?

If not, please suggest alternatives…

[boldfresh]

Hey V, if there are several acc and aircraft for 2 or more powers in a sea zone, does triplea distinguish which ftrs are on which acc’s?

[Ghostglider]

When would this ever do a difference?

[boldfresh]

@Ghostglider:

When would this ever do a difference?

probably never Ghostglider.  i’m just curious.

[boldfresh]

everyone should proceed with getting the right version of tripleA.  I will download the updated map and work on getting the map to where it needs to be for the commencement of R2.  meanwhile, i’m waiting for confirmation from Dutch that he thinks proceeding from this point is acceptable.

[boldfresh]

i guess all you need to do is make sure you have version 1.6.1.2.  once i start with the right map (3.3) it is used by all and no one else needs to worry about map updating.

[boldfresh]

here is the recreated map using v3.3.  the convoy disruption loss caused by the german in 106 sub actually registered as 1 this time due to the fact that it is supposed to be determined by a roll, not an automatic 2 per sub.  i went ahead and changed the british bank account back to 31, but a case could be made that the bombing and convoy damage should just be called to be average due to the fact that the roll never occurred so that would leave 12 damage on london and 32 ipc in the bank account.  Average would have been 11 damage to london and 2 convoy disruption loss.

let me know what you guys think.

please take a close look at the map and verify that everything is correct.  the bombing worked perfectly this time, as did the convoy disruption roll - so we should be good to go from here.

[boldfresh]

noticed one thing wrong.  the british bomber is in gib not in london.  he’s updated map.

[Ghostglider]

If average should be applied, we should have 50% chance for all three planes survives as aa-guns did not fire correctly…
We could also reroll bombing raid + convoy but it is easier to continue from your map.
Thank you for maling a new map!
11 damage and 31 ipc in the bank is acceptable for us.

[dutchmand]

Hold on.  The aa gun did fire correctly. I thought the issue was the damage. I got the same dice from Marti as we in the game file. Why is the AB now dinged?  The tach is dead, I didn’t think that was an issue.  And, we had 31 on the old map with the convoy.

[boldfresh]

my bad, the AB should not be dinged - when recreating the map i did a bombing of the AB with the tac.  It correctly did not allow the tac to bomb the IC this time as well, forgot to mention that.  i did delete the tac that was shot down in reality, but did not delete the damage on the AB.

[dutchmand]

OK.  Are we going then with the dice actually rolled on the convoy raid?

[boldfresh]

@Ghostglider:

If average should be applied, we should have 50% chance for all three planes survives as aa-guns did not fire correctly…
We could also reroll bombing raid + convoy but it is easier to continue from your map.
Thank you for maling a new map!
11 damage and 31 ipc in the bank is acceptable for us.

yes, the aa guns did fire correctly as i understand as well.  one of the 3 aa shots did hit.  the only thing that the program did not do correctly up to the point of dropping bombs was that it allowed your tac to be sent to the IC.  but if the tac did not go to the IC, it would have gone to the AB.  So one of the three aa shots did hit.  we do not know whether it was an aa shot from the IC or the shot from the AB.  actually to be completely fair, we should do a random roll determining which was shot down - a tac or a strat bomber - right?

[boldfresh]

he is saying they will accept one convoy disruption point essentially by giving us one less damage on london complex.

[boldfresh]

i mean, we know that you intended to bomb the AB unless you could bomb the IC.  so in reality, the AA shot that hit had a 2/3 chance of downing a strat bomber rather than the tac (you only have a choice of casualty if choosing between aa shots from the same complex or base as i understand)

[dutchmand]

OK, so UK has 32 and 11 damage….

Now can we move on so we can figure out how to run the world after London falls on G3?  We still have the Imperial navy to worry about after all.  Enough about the stupid Germans.