• @cts17:

    Fighter from Hungary and 1 other air unit from else where. Generally a tactical or fighter from West Germany that was used against France in combat.

    You actually use planes to attack France? WoW

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    England to SZ 110
    SZ 110 to Holland
    Holland to Germany
    Germany to N. Italy
    N. Italy to either SZ (whichever gets the carrier.)

    Just to answer the question how the fighters from England get to the Italian fleet.

    Meanwhile, Yea, I had not thought of the Germans flying CAP for the Italians…I always figured you were CAPing your own fleet not an allies fleet. (Yes, I know you can.)

    That would significantly reduce Italy’s castration.

  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    yea it’s a must.

    You HAVE to defend the Italian fleet, or you might aswell forfeit the game.

    It comes second to nothing else Germany does.


  • Gargantua and anyone else,

    What would you do if even after putting the 2 German fighters in Southern Italy the fleet with 2 transports goes down and US builds up and heads to Gibralter to size up targets once at war.  I understand Sea Lion is one option if the UK loses too many fighters but I do prefer to fight Russia.  Can Italy be saved, Norway protected so that it at least can be taken back if USA hits there and pressure still put on Russia?  I have some ideas but I think it could be tough.  I won’t tip my hand too much on this until after I fighter Chompers on Thursday.

    I understand skillful use of Japan is key and maybe I am answering my own question but as Gargantua has stated earlier Japan needs to put pressure on the US to not spend in Europe one way or another.  I think there are ways to do this with some minor variation in each tactic.

    Also do you think it is more important to take Normandy G1 or sink both UK alantic Battleships.  I think it is next to impossible to take down all three, get the fighters to Southern Italy and still make France all but a done deal.  My opponent will scramble his fighters in the UK and Scotland unless I go in with overwhelming force.

    Any thoughts would be appreciated.  Hopefully Chompers doesn’t read this thread before I play him Thursday but if he does I will just lose the element of surprise.

  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    Italy needs to focus IMMEDIATELY on all of it’s NO’s.

    Gibraltar is part of that. As is clearing the med.

    I’ve gotten Italy to 35+ on I1, with some gambles,  you can make it to 50ish with the new NO’s by the time the states roughly gets into the war.

    Finger spreading aside, at 50 IPC’s and Germany close by with a similar income, you should be able to fight off the U.S. and support German advances into Russia just aswell.


  • Okay thanks I will focus on taking a hard look at how to get as many points for Italy asap.  It doesn’t help that I like to give Southern France to Germany on G2 so that they have a factory in the Med.

    Also I am torn on the two Battleships or Normandy because if the Norm Figher doesn’t die then that is one more figher that can attack either Italian fleet UK 1.

    Maybe I will build the 2 transports/Carrier G1 and if too many UK fighters die I will build the 10 ten transports G2 and smash UK on G3.  I am not a fan of sea lion but it does seem to be one way to make allies pay for sacrificing too many fighters in a KIF.  It would also take the heat off Italy if US has to go save UK.

    I would rather attack Russia so I will see if there are other options I can think of.

    The past two games I was the allies and attacked Chompers 2 transport Italian Fleet UK 1 and sunk it both times even though he scrambled 3 fighters with the BB and destroyer.  And that was without the Normandy fighter because he killed it G1.  Maybe I just got lucky though because I am not sure the odds on that fight.


  • All i can say about the British fleet moving into SZ 95 or 97 is by the time my turn with Germany comes around on G2, at the end of my turn, there won’t be any British ships left in either of those Sea Zones.


  • @manincellv:

    All i can say about the British fleet moving into SZ 95 or 97 is by the time my turn with Germany comes around on G2, at then end of my turn, there won’t be any British ships left in either of those Sea Zones.

    I am sure you can back that up with the German Airforce but it might cost you.  It seems to be a win for allies if they sink the 2 transport Italian Fleet, 2 german fighters, 1 italian fighter and then as a bonus get to kill some more German planes on the way out.  So far the best counter I can think of to this is Sea Lion because it would probably tip the odds well into the favor of Germany and bail out Italy.


  • @Gargantua:

    yea it’s a must.

    You HAVE to defend the Italian fleet, or you might aswell forfeit the game.

    It comes second to nothing else Germany does.

    So let me get this straight Gargantua, are you saying you destroy the entire UK fleet and land 2 fighters in Southern Italy to defend the fleet?


  • I think putting the 2 german fighters in Southern Italy is standard but what Germany and UK decide to do in the chess match after that is not so standard.  Whatever decision each side makes from there can have strong ripple effects through out the rest of the game.

  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    NO idi, that’s not what I’m saying.

    I’m saying you attack everything you CAN of the U.K.'s fleet, strategically,  and make sure you defend Southern Italy.

  • '10

    Actually, i would say this :  I kill everything that looks like a UK ship , except in SZ109 + I got a very decent shot at the UK cruiser in SZ91 (works about 35-45% of the times) +  i take France AND normandy AND i land 2 fighters in Southern Italy on G1.  This has worked for me 100% of the times (on a huuuge sample of….3 games lol :-D).


  • How much does everyone on here use to sink the Battleship and Destroyer off Sea Zone 110?  Do you try to get the UK player to scramble?  Do you not want him to scramble.  If I decide to use too much than I won’t have as many planes to play around with G1 but I will still be able to take Normandy, France and get two fighters to Southern Italy.  I am thinking 3 subs and at least 5 planes into 110 to seal the Battleships fate should UK scramble 3 fighters.


  • @Gargantua:

    NO idi, that’s not what I’m saying.

    I’m saying you attack everything you CAN

    Dear Gargantua; What do you mean by: Everthing you Can meaning what ships exactly with what planes exactly? Please break it down for me. I’m pretty new to Alpha+2. I have only seen Alpha+2 played once and the game didn’t even get finished. So please share your vast knowledge of this game with me. I just want to learn how to play as well as you and your minions.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    I decided to leave the BB and CA off the coast of SZ 110 to have overwhelming odds in France, SZ 111, SZ 112 and Yugo and some snipe attacks on SZ 91, 106 and 103.  Paid off, somewhat in one game, didnt pay off at all in another.  On the plus side, with all that firepower, yer usually safe assuming the Scottish fighter cowers like a pansy instead of scrambling to fight you. wink

    I’ve yet to be spanked by the British battleboat, meanwhile, teh fighters I usually send there were sent elsewhere so they could get to Naples to protect the Italian fleet.  I’ve yet to see a “good” open that sinks both British carriers, shoots at the cruiser in SZ 91 and has 3 fighters in S. Italy at the end.  I am not saying it does not exist, I am saying I have not seen it.  And my definition of “good” is 80% or better odds in each battle.  “Sufficient” is 60% or better.

  • '10

    @Cmdr:

    I decided to leave the BB and CA off the coast of SZ 110 to have overwhelming odds in France, SZ 111, SZ 112 and Yugo and some snipe attacks on SZ 91, 106 and 103

    Snipe attack on SZ 103 ?  :?

  • '10

    @Cmdr:

    I decided to leave the BB and CA off the coast of SZ 110 to have overwhelming odds in France, SZ 111, SZ 112 and Yugo and some snipe attacks on SZ 91, 106 and 103.  Paid off, somewhat in one game, didnt pay off at all in another.  On the plus side, with all that firepower, yer usually safe assuming the Scottish fighter cowers like a pansy instead of scrambling to fight you. wink

    I’ve yet to be spanked by the British battleboat, meanwhile, teh fighters I usually send there were sent elsewhere so they could get to Naples to protect the Italian fleet.  I’ve yet to see a “good” open that sinks both British carriers, shoots at the cruiser in SZ 91 and has 3 fighters in S. Italy at the end.  I am not saying it does not exist, I am saying I have not seen it.  And my definition of “good” is 80% or better odds in each battle.  “Sufficient” is 60% or better.

    In our game tomorrow I will put enough German planes into Italy that no U.K. ships will survive in the Med. on G2. Jenn, where are the two U.K. carriers that you refer to? Is there one in the fog that I have not seen? I think that it is more important that Italy survives than it is to sink U.K. ships in the Atlantic. So I intend to take France, Normandy and Yugoslavia on G1 and sink the U.K. cruiser in 91 if possible. There are many German planes that can get to Italy at the end of G1. By using the Luftwaffe in the land battles it will lower my losses. All my plane should survive G1.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    @Axisplaya:

    @Cmdr:

    I decided to leave the BB and CA off the coast of SZ 110 to have overwhelming odds in France, SZ 111, SZ 112 and Yugo and some snipe attacks on SZ 91, 106 and 103

    Snipe attack on SZ 103 ?  :?

    Submarine vs Destroyer Transport in SZ 103.  I coulda gone after the same thing in SZ 106 but I figure that destroyer is easier for the Germans to go after on the next round and if the British think their BB/CA in SZ 110 is going to be unsinkable with the DD/Trn from SZ 109 and some other ships, who am I not to ablige them by trying to sink it?  Get all the boats that way, or he has to retreat the destroyer, battleboat and cruiser which means he isn’t using them anyway


  • @Cmdr:

    @Axisplaya:

    Snipe attack on SZ 103 ?  :?

    Submarine vs Destroyer Transport in SZ 103.  I coulda gone after the same thing in SZ 106 but I figure that destroyer is easier for the Germans to go after on the next round and if the British think their BB/CA in SZ 110 is going to be unsinkable with the DD/Trn from SZ 109 and some other ships, who am I not to ablige them by trying to sink it?  Get all the boats that way, or he has to retreat the destroyer, battleboat and cruiser which means he isn’t using them anyway

    There’s a German sub in 103.  There’s no UK destroyer/transport.  And you clearly don’t mean to attack 109 as the airbase can scramble 3 fighters from the UK (as you didn’t attack 110, they have nothing better to do and could never be hit) and kill the SS more often than not at the possible loss of the DD, so the transport remains safe.

    The seazones you hit:
    Sea Zone 71: 1 Destroyer
    Sea Zone 91: 1 Cruiser
    Sea Zone 98: 1 Cruiser, 1 Destroyer, 1 Carrier w/1 Tac Bomber, 1 Transport
    Sea Zone 106: 1 Destroyer, 1 Transport
    Sea Zone 109: 1 Destroyer, 1 Transport
    Sea Zone 110: 1 Cruiser, 1 Battleship
    Sea Zone 111: 1 Destroyer, 1 Battleship
    Sea Zone 112: 1 Cruise

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    eh, 106, whatever…new map.  That funny SZ off the cost of Quebec

    And, for the record, you could scramble the French and British fighters to protect the SZ 109 destroyer from the submarine, but they could not shoot at the submarine nor be taken as casualties.  So without an attack on SZ 110 and with only a submarine(s) going to SZ 109, there is no point in scrambling fighters. /shrug.  It’s why I ignore the BB in SZ 110, that way I can have CRUSHING power in my other attacks and don’t generally have to wait for my opponent to scramble (because if they do, they just lose their planes and do virtually no dmg with them, so why scramble? PBF takes long enough as it is!)

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