L18 BM3 G40 BSD (L) vs AetV (X+5) Game II

[BSD]

I want to think a bit more about this turn.  Will do it later tonight or tomorrow.

[aequitas-et-veritas]

@BSD:

I want to think a bit more about this turn.  Will do it later tonight or tomorrow.Â

Fine with me.

Thank you for letting me know.

[BSD]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 Balanced Mod3, version: 3.3

Game History

Round: 17

Purchase Units - Americans
            Americans buy 6 artilleries, 6 infantry and 6 transports; Remaining resources: 2 PUs;

Politics - Americans
            Americans takes Political Action: Political Action Allies To War With TrueNeutrals
                Americans succeeds on action: Political Action Allies To War With TrueNeutrals: Changing Relationship for British and Neutral_True from Strict_Neutral to War
                Americans succeeds on action: Political Action Allies To War With TrueNeutrals: Changing Relationship for UK_Pacific and Neutral_True from Strict_Neutral to War
                Americans succeeds on action: Political Action Allies To War With TrueNeutrals: Changing Relationship for ANZAC and Neutral_True from Strict_Neutral to War
                Americans succeeds on action: Political Action Allies To War With TrueNeutrals: Changing Relationship for Dutch and Neutral_True from Strict_Neutral to War
                Americans succeeds on action: Political Action Allies To War With TrueNeutrals: Changing Relationship for Chinese and Neutral_True from Strict_Neutral to War
                Americans succeeds on action: Political Action Allies To War With TrueNeutrals: Changing Relationship for French and Neutral_True from Strict_Neutral to War
                Americans succeeds on action: Political Action Allies To War With TrueNeutrals: Changing Relationship for Americans and Neutral_True from Strict_Neutral to War
                Americans succeeds on action: Political Action Allies To War With TrueNeutrals: Changing Relationship for Neutral_True and Germans from Strict_Neutral to Friendly_Neutral
                Americans succeeds on action: Political Action Allies To War With TrueNeutrals: Changing Relationship for Neutral_True and Italians from Strict_Neutral to Friendly_Neutral
                Americans succeeds on action: Political Action Allies To War With TrueNeutrals: Changing Relationship for Neutral_True and Japanese from Strict_Neutral to Friendly_Neutral
                Americans succeeds on action: Political Action Allies To War With TrueNeutrals: Changing Relationship for Neutral_True and Neutral_Axis from Strict_Neutral to Friendly_Neutral

Combat Move - Americans
            2 armour, 4 artilleries, 7 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from United Kingdom to 110 Sea Zone
            2 armour, 2 infantry and 2 transports moved from 110 Sea Zone to 91 Sea Zone
            2 armour and 2 infantry moved from 91 Sea Zone to Portugal
            5 bombers moved from Gibraltar to Yugoslavia
            3 artilleries and 3 infantry moved from Eastern United States to 101 Sea Zone
            3 artilleries, 3 infantry and 3 transports moved from 101 Sea Zone to 91 Sea Zone
            3 artilleries and 3 infantry moved from 91 Sea Zone to Spain
            4 artilleries, 5 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 5 transports moved from 110 Sea Zone to 91 Sea Zone
            4 artilleries, 5 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from 91 Sea Zone to Spain
            2 fighters moved from United Kingdom to Spain
            1 fighter moved from 110 Sea Zone to Portugal
            1 fighter moved from 110 Sea Zone to Portugal
            2 fighters moved from 110 Sea Zone to Spain
            1 destroyer and 1 submarine moved from 10 Sea Zone to 1 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from Western United States to 1 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from Western United States to 1 Sea Zone

Combat - Americans
            Battle in 1 Sea Zone
                Americans attack with 1 destroyer, 2 fighters and 1 submarine
                Japanese defend with 1 submarine
                    Americans roll dice for 1 submarine in 1 Sea Zone, round 2 :  1/1 hits
                    1 submarine owned by the Japanese lost in 1 Sea Zone
                Americans win, taking 1 Sea Zone from Japanese with 1 destroyer, 2 fighters and 1 submarine remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 submarine
            Battle in Yugoslavia
                Americans attack with 5 bombers
                Germans defend with 1 airfield, 9 bombers and 1 factory_minor
                    Americans roll dice for 5 bombers in Yugoslavia, round 2 :  4/5 hits
                    Germans roll dice for 9 bombers in Yugoslavia, round 2 :  2/9 hits
                    2 bombers owned by the Americans and 4 bombers owned by the Germans lost in Yugoslavia
                    Americans roll dice for 3 bombers in Yugoslavia, round 3 :  2/3 hits
                    Germans roll dice for 5 bombers in Yugoslavia, round 3 :  1/5 hits
                    1 bomber owned by the Americans and 2 bombers owned by the Germans lost in Yugoslavia
                    Americans roll dice for 2 bombers in Yugoslavia, round 4 :  2/2 hits
                    Germans roll dice for 3 bombers in Yugoslavia, round 4 :  0/3 hits
                    2 bombers owned by the Germans lost in Yugoslavia
                    Americans roll dice for 2 bombers in Yugoslavia, round 5 :  1/2 hits
                    Germans roll dice for 1 bomber in Yugoslavia, round 5 :  0/1 hits
                    1 bomber owned by the Germans lost in Yugoslavia
                Americans win with 2 bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 72
                Casualties for Germans: 9 bombers
                Casualties for Americans: 3 bombers
            Battle in Spain
                Americans attack with 7 artilleries, 4 fighters, 8 infantry and 1 mech_infantry
                Neutral_True defend with 6 infantry
                    Americans roll dice for 7 artilleries, 4 fighters, 8 infantry and 1 mech_infantry in Spain, round 2 :  10/20 hits
                    Neutral_True roll dice for 6 infantry in Spain, round 2 :  2/6 hits
                    6 infantry owned by the Neutral_True and 2 infantry owned by the Americans lost in Spain
                Americans win, taking Spain from Neutral_True with 7 artilleries, 4 fighters, 6 infantry and 1 mech_infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 12
                Casualties for Americans: 2 infantry
                Casualties for Neutral_True: 6 infantry
            Battle in Portugal
                Americans attack with 2 armour, 2 fighters and 2 infantry
                Neutral_True defend with 2 infantry
                    Americans roll dice for 2 armour, 2 fighters and 2 infantry in Portugal, round 2 :  1/6 hits
                    Neutral_True roll dice for 2 infantry in Portugal, round 2 :  0/2 hits
                    1 infantry owned by the Neutral_True lost in Portugal
                    Americans roll dice for 2 armour, 2 fighters and 2 infantry in Portugal, round 3 :  1/6 hits
                    Neutral_True roll dice for 1 infantry in Portugal, round 3 :  0/1 hits
                    1 infantry owned by the Neutral_True lost in Portugal
                Americans win, taking Portugal from Neutral_True with 2 armour, 2 fighters and 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
                Casualties for Neutral_True: 2 infantry

Non Combat Move - Americans
            1 bomber moved from Yugoslavia to Tobruk
            1 bomber moved from Yugoslavia to Tobruk
            6 fighters moved from Gibraltar to Egypt
            2 fighters moved from Eastern United States to 101 Sea Zone
            1 carrier and 1 destroyer moved from 101 Sea Zone to 91 Sea Zone
            2 fighters moved from 101 Sea Zone to 91 Sea Zone
            1 carrier, 1 cruiser and 2 destroyers moved from 110 Sea Zone to 91 Sea Zone
            2 fighters moved from 1 Sea Zone to 26 Sea Zone
            1 carrier moved from 10 Sea Zone to 26 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from Western United States to Hawaiian Islands
            1 mech_infantry moved from Trans-Jordan to Egypt
            1 aaGun and 1 infantry moved from Gibraltar to Spain
            4 fighters moved from Spain to Gibraltar
            2 fighters moved from Portugal to Gibraltar
            1 artillery moved from Alaska to British Columbia

Place Units - Americans
            6 transports placed in 101 Sea Zone
            5 artilleries and 5 infantry placed in Eastern United States
            1 artillery and 1 infantry placed in Central United States

Turn Complete - Americans
            Americans collect 59 PUs; end with 61 PUs
            Trigger Americans 7 North Africa Beach Head: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 66 PUs
            Objective Americans 3 Defense Obligations: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 71 PUs
            Objective Americans 2 Outer Territories: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 76 PUs
            Objective Americans 8 Pacific Airfields: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 81 PUs
            Objective Americans 1 Homeland: Americans met a national objective for an additional 10 PUs; end with 91 PUs

triplea_41458_Ame17.tsvg

[BSD]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 Balanced Mod3, version: 3.3

Game History

Round: 17

Purchase Units - Americans
            Americans buy 6 artilleries, 6 infantry and 6 transports; Remaining resources: 2 PUs;

Politics - Americans
            Americans takes Political Action: Political Action Allies To War With TrueNeutrals
                Americans succeeds on action: Political Action Allies To War With TrueNeutrals: Changing Relationship for British and Neutral_True from Strict_Neutral to War
                Americans succeeds on action: Political Action Allies To War With TrueNeutrals: Changing Relationship for UK_Pacific and Neutral_True from Strict_Neutral to War
                Americans succeeds on action: Political Action Allies To War With TrueNeutrals: Changing Relationship for ANZAC and Neutral_True from Strict_Neutral to War
                Americans succeeds on action: Political Action Allies To War With TrueNeutrals: Changing Relationship for Dutch and Neutral_True from Strict_Neutral to War
                Americans succeeds on action: Political Action Allies To War With TrueNeutrals: Changing Relationship for Chinese and Neutral_True from Strict_Neutral to War
                Americans succeeds on action: Political Action Allies To War With TrueNeutrals: Changing Relationship for French and Neutral_True from Strict_Neutral to War
                Americans succeeds on action: Political Action Allies To War With TrueNeutrals: Changing Relationship for Americans and Neutral_True from Strict_Neutral to War
                Americans succeeds on action: Political Action Allies To War With TrueNeutrals: Changing Relationship for Neutral_True and Germans from Strict_Neutral to Friendly_Neutral
                Americans succeeds on action: Political Action Allies To War With TrueNeutrals: Changing Relationship for Neutral_True and Italians from Strict_Neutral to Friendly_Neutral
                Americans succeeds on action: Political Action Allies To War With TrueNeutrals: Changing Relationship for Neutral_True and Japanese from Strict_Neutral to Friendly_Neutral
                Americans succeeds on action: Political Action Allies To War With TrueNeutrals: Changing Relationship for Neutral_True and Neutral_Axis from Strict_Neutral to Friendly_Neutral

Combat Move - Americans
            2 armour, 4 artilleries, 7 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from United Kingdom to 110 Sea Zone
            2 armour, 2 infantry and 2 transports moved from 110 Sea Zone to 91 Sea Zone
            2 armour and 2 infantry moved from 91 Sea Zone to Portugal
            5 bombers moved from Gibraltar to Yugoslavia
            3 artilleries and 3 infantry moved from Eastern United States to 101 Sea Zone
            3 artilleries, 3 infantry and 3 transports moved from 101 Sea Zone to 91 Sea Zone
            3 artilleries and 3 infantry moved from 91 Sea Zone to Spain
            4 artilleries, 5 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 5 transports moved from 110 Sea Zone to 91 Sea Zone
            4 artilleries, 5 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from 91 Sea Zone to Spain
            2 fighters moved from United Kingdom to Spain
            1 fighter moved from 110 Sea Zone to Portugal
            1 fighter moved from 110 Sea Zone to Portugal
            2 fighters moved from 110 Sea Zone to Spain
            1 destroyer and 1 submarine moved from 10 Sea Zone to 1 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from Western United States to 1 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from Western United States to 1 Sea Zone

Combat - Americans
            Battle in 1 Sea Zone
                Americans attack with 1 destroyer, 2 fighters and 1 submarine
                Japanese defend with 1 submarine
                    Americans roll dice for 1 submarine in 1 Sea Zone, round 2 :  1/1 hits
                    1 submarine owned by the Japanese lost in 1 Sea Zone
                Americans win, taking 1 Sea Zone from Japanese with 1 destroyer, 2 fighters and 1 submarine remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 submarine
            Battle in Yugoslavia
                Americans attack with 5 bombers
                Germans defend with 1 airfield, 9 bombers and 1 factory_minor
                    Americans roll dice for 5 bombers in Yugoslavia, round 2 :  4/5 hits
                    Germans roll dice for 9 bombers in Yugoslavia, round 2 :  2/9 hits
                    2 bombers owned by the Americans and 4 bombers owned by the Germans lost in Yugoslavia
                    Americans roll dice for 3 bombers in Yugoslavia, round 3 :  2/3 hits
                    Germans roll dice for 5 bombers in Yugoslavia, round 3 :  1/5 hits
                    1 bomber owned by the Americans and 2 bombers owned by the Germans lost in Yugoslavia
                    Americans roll dice for 2 bombers in Yugoslavia, round 4 :  2/2 hits
                    Germans roll dice for 3 bombers in Yugoslavia, round 4 :  0/3 hits
                    2 bombers owned by the Germans lost in Yugoslavia
                    Americans roll dice for 2 bombers in Yugoslavia, round 5 :  1/2 hits
                    Germans roll dice for 1 bomber in Yugoslavia, round 5 :  0/1 hits
                    1 bomber owned by the Germans lost in Yugoslavia
                Americans win with 2 bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 72
                Casualties for Germans: 9 bombers
                Casualties for Americans: 3 bombers
            Battle in Spain
                Americans attack with 7 artilleries, 4 fighters, 8 infantry and 1 mech_infantry
                Neutral_True defend with 6 infantry
                    Americans roll dice for 7 artilleries, 4 fighters, 8 infantry and 1 mech_infantry in Spain, round 2 :  10/20 hits
                    Neutral_True roll dice for 6 infantry in Spain, round 2 :  2/6 hits
                    6 infantry owned by the Neutral_True and 2 infantry owned by the Americans lost in Spain
                Americans win, taking Spain from Neutral_True with 7 artilleries, 4 fighters, 6 infantry and 1 mech_infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 12
                Casualties for Americans: 2 infantry
                Casualties for Neutral_True: 6 infantry
            Battle in Portugal
                Americans attack with 2 armour, 2 fighters and 2 infantry
                Neutral_True defend with 2 infantry
                    Americans roll dice for 2 armour, 2 fighters and 2 infantry in Portugal, round 2 :  1/6 hits
                    Neutral_True roll dice for 2 infantry in Portugal, round 2 :  0/2 hits
                    1 infantry owned by the Neutral_True lost in Portugal
                    Americans roll dice for 2 armour, 2 fighters and 2 infantry in Portugal, round 3 :  1/6 hits
                    Neutral_True roll dice for 1 infantry in Portugal, round 3 :  0/1 hits
                    1 infantry owned by the Neutral_True lost in Portugal
                Americans win, taking Portugal from Neutral_True with 2 armour, 2 fighters and 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
                Casualties for Neutral_True: 2 infantry

Non Combat Move - Americans
            1 bomber moved from Yugoslavia to Tobruk
            1 bomber moved from Yugoslavia to Tobruk
            6 fighters moved from Gibraltar to Egypt
            2 fighters moved from Eastern United States to 101 Sea Zone
            1 carrier and 1 destroyer moved from 101 Sea Zone to 91 Sea Zone
            2 fighters moved from 101 Sea Zone to 91 Sea Zone
            1 carrier, 1 cruiser and 2 destroyers moved from 110 Sea Zone to 91 Sea Zone
            2 fighters moved from 1 Sea Zone to 26 Sea Zone
            1 carrier moved from 10 Sea Zone to 26 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from Western United States to Hawaiian Islands
            1 mech_infantry moved from Trans-Jordan to Egypt
            1 aaGun and 1 infantry moved from Gibraltar to Spain
            4 fighters moved from Spain to Gibraltar
            2 fighters moved from Portugal to Gibraltar
            1 artillery moved from Alaska to British Columbia

Place Units - Americans
            6 transports placed in 101 Sea Zone
            5 artilleries and 5 infantry placed in Eastern United States
            1 artillery and 1 infantry placed in Central United States

Turn Complete - Americans
            Americans collect 59 PUs; end with 61 PUs
            Trigger Americans 7 North Africa Beach Head: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 66 PUs
            Objective Americans 3 Defense Obligations: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 71 PUs
            Objective Americans 2 Outer Territories: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 76 PUs
            Objective Americans 8 Pacific Airfields: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 81 PUs
            Objective Americans 1 Homeland: Americans met a national objective for an additional 10 PUs; end with 91 PUs

Purchase Units - Chinese
            Trigger Chinese Artillery Supplies: Chinese has their production frontier changed to: productionChinese_Burma_Road_Open
            Chinese buy 2 artilleries and 6 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Chinese

Non Combat Move - Chinese
            1 artillery and 8 infantry moved from Kweichow to Shensi
            1 fighter moved from Kiangsu to Shensi
            2 artilleries and 11 infantry moved from Kiangsu to Kiangsi
            2 artilleries and 6 infantry moved from Manchuria to Jehol

Place Units - Chinese
            2 artilleries and 6 infantry placed in Shensi
            Chinese undo move 1.
            1 artillery and 2 infantry placed in Jehol
            1 artillery and 4 infantry placed in Shensi

Turn Complete - Chinese
            Chinese collect 21 PUs; end with 21 PUs
            Objective Chinese 1 Burma Road: Chinese met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 24 PUs

Purchase Units - British
            British buy 10 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Purchase Units - UK_Pacific
            UK_Pacific buy 2 artilleries and 6 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - British

Non Combat Move - British
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            1 artillery and 8 infantry moved from West India to Eastern Persia
            1 aaGun, 2 artilleries and 6 infantry moved from India to West India
            1 aaGun, 6 artilleries and 7 infantry moved from Shan State to Burma
            3 mech_infantrys moved from Belgian Congo to Egypt
            3 mech_infantrys moved from Union of South Africa to Belgian Congo
            8 artilleries and 24 infantry moved from Trans-Jordan to Egypt
            EDIT: 1 fighter moved from Belgian Congo to Egypt
            2 fighters moved from United Kingdom to Gibraltar
            1 transport moved from 110 Sea Zone to 109 Sea Zone
            1 aaGun and 1 infantry moved from United Kingdom to 109 Sea Zone
            1 aaGun, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 109 Sea Zone to 91 Sea Zone
            1 aaGun and 1 infantry moved from 91 Sea Zone to Gibraltar
            1 artillery moved from Gibraltar to Spain
            1 armour, 1 artillery and 2 infantry moved from United Kingdom to 110 Sea Zone
            1 armour, 1 artillery, 2 infantry and 4 transports moved from 110 Sea Zone to 91 Sea Zone
            1 armour, 1 artillery and 2 infantry moved from 91 Sea Zone to Spain
            1 infantry moved from Gibraltar to Spain
            1 battleship, 2 carriers, 2 cruisers, 2 destroyers, 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 110 Sea Zone to 91 Sea Zone
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 91 Sea Zone to Gibraltar
            2 fighters moved from West India to Eastern Persia

Place Units - British
            3 infantry placed in Egypt
            2 mech_infantrys placed in Union of South Africa
            7 infantry placed in United Kingdom

Turn Complete - British
            British collect 32 PUs; end with 32 PUs
            Trigger British 3 No Enemy Submarines: British met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 35 PUs

Place Units - UK_Pacific
            2 artilleries and 6 infantry placed in India

Turn Complete - UK_Pacific
            UK_Pacific collect 20 PUs; end with 20 PUs
            Trigger UK Pacific 4 No Enemy Submarines: UK_Pacific met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 23 PUs
            Objective UK Pacific 2 Kwangtung And Malaya: UK_Pacific met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 26 PUs
            Some Units in India change ownership: 2 artilleries and 6 infantry

triplea_41458_UK_17.tsvg

[aequitas-et-veritas]

Hi BSD, i checked on your move:
5x US Bmbrs vs 9x Ger Bmbrs stationed in Yugo.
This move is not correct since you flew over Neutral Territory.

I’ll give you time to double check for your self before we find a solution.
Triple a sometimes allows moves wich are not according to the rules.

Kind regards
AetV

[BSD]

Hey AEV, Spain was no longer neutral since I declared war on them at the start of USA’s turn.

[aequitas-et-veritas]

@BSD:

Hey AEV, Spain was no longer neutral since I declared war on them at the start of USA’s turn.

Please follow this link to the Q&A forum to get the right answer.
https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=28562.2565

I understand your point of view but this would be a loophole and also an invitation for more Neutral Crushs. :lol:

[JDOW]

Interesting situation. While planes can certainly fly over neutrals that actually are attacked I am not sure whether the bombwrs can fly over without participating in the attack. Intuitively I would say BsD is correct but I asked Gamerman to confirm.

[JDOW]

Aetv. The scenario from tizkit you linked does not apply here as he was referring to friendly neutrals.

You can certainly fly over unfriendly neutrals in case they are attacked.

The only open question to me is now. Do units that fly over habe to participate in the attack.

[BSD]

Here is the way i see it:
1. Can planes fly over countries that I am at war with?  Yes
2. Am I at war with Spain? Yes
Therefore I can fly over Spain since I am at war with them.

[JDOW]

No this is wrong. You are not automatically at war with any neutral after you declared. They become unfriendly neutral. Und you cannot just fly over them. Example: italian bomber can NOT fly over iraq in case it has not been attacked before. You may only fly over them in case you attackntjem and adter that. You can fly over yugo after a g1 strafe because rhen yuga actually become allies.

So example: allies can certainly not just declare war to the neutrals and then fly air from india to russia without attacking Afghanistan.

As said the remaining question us: IF the neutral was attacked (which is the case in spain). Is one attacking unit enough and can other units fly over and attack elsewhere.

I am not sure.

[JDOW]

Sorry i meant uk units not italian Bomber re iraq.

Uk cannot fly air from india to tj over iraq in ncm without attackikg it. This is certain.

[aequitas-et-veritas]

@P@nther:

@aequitas:

The Allied Player attacked Portugal and Spain on his turn as the US and flew planes over Spain to Yugoslavia.

Doing so implies a sort of order in combat movements, such as:

First combat movement: Attack Spain so Spain is no longer neutral.
afterwards:
Second combat movement: Fly over Spain to attack Yugoslavia.

As written above “All combat movement is considered to take place at the same time.” (Rulebook Europe, page 13).
So the implied order is not possible.

At the start of the combat movement phase and before all combat moves Spain is neutral. Now all combat moves occur simultaneously.

And Spain losing its neutrality is a consequence of a combat move.

[JDOW]

Yep. This sounds absolutely logic the me. I aaked gamerman too but to me it seems that your move was not legal. Neuttal crush csn give you extra ncm options not the option to attack „behind“ a neutral after a fly over.

[JDOW]

And just to emphasize again because you said it wrong. You may fly over spain after it was attacked. But you cannot e.g fly over sweden then unless you attacked it or germans took it.

[JDOW]

But very interesting situation. Curious if gamerman confirms too:-)

[BSD]

You guys are confusing True Neutral with Pro Axis/Allied neutrals.  Once I declare war on all True Neutral powers, then I am at war with all of them regardless of if i initiated a move into their territory or not.

[BSD]

If Spain was a pro-Axis Neutral then you’d be correct that this is not a legal move because I must initiate combat with them before flying over.  But since Spain is a Neutral country, then I am at war with them in my political phase after I DOW the True Neutrals and I can fly over them in combat phase just like I could any other country or zone that I am at war with.

[JDOW]

No. This kust just wrong. Just read the triplea history. After you declare war tontje neuttals they become axis friendlY. Not more.

[JDOW]

So as said. In your next turn im this game. You csnt just fly ober eg venezuela unless you attack it.