L18 BM3 G40 BSD (L) vs AetV (X+5) Game II

[aequitas-et-veritas]

@BSD:

Hey AEV, Spain was no longer neutral since I declared war on them at the start of USA’s turn.

Please follow this link to the Q&A forum to get the right answer.
https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=28562.2565

I understand your point of view but this would be a loophole and also an invitation for more Neutral Crushs. :lol:

[JDOW]

Interesting situation. While planes can certainly fly over neutrals that actually are attacked I am not sure whether the bombwrs can fly over without participating in the attack. Intuitively I would say BsD is correct but I asked Gamerman to confirm.

[JDOW]

Aetv. The scenario from tizkit you linked does not apply here as he was referring to friendly neutrals.

You can certainly fly over unfriendly neutrals in case they are attacked.

The only open question to me is now. Do units that fly over habe to participate in the attack.

[BSD]

Here is the way i see it:
1. Can planes fly over countries that I am at war with?  Yes
2. Am I at war with Spain? Yes
Therefore I can fly over Spain since I am at war with them.

[JDOW]

No this is wrong. You are not automatically at war with any neutral after you declared. They become unfriendly neutral. Und you cannot just fly over them. Example: italian bomber can NOT fly over iraq in case it has not been attacked before. You may only fly over them in case you attackntjem and adter that. You can fly over yugo after a g1 strafe because rhen yuga actually become allies.

So example: allies can certainly not just declare war to the neutrals and then fly air from india to russia without attacking Afghanistan.

As said the remaining question us: IF the neutral was attacked (which is the case in spain). Is one attacking unit enough and can other units fly over and attack elsewhere.

I am not sure.

[JDOW]

Sorry i meant uk units not italian Bomber re iraq.

Uk cannot fly air from india to tj over iraq in ncm without attackikg it. This is certain.

[aequitas-et-veritas]

@P@nther:

@aequitas:

The Allied Player attacked Portugal and Spain on his turn as the US and flew planes over Spain to Yugoslavia.

Doing so implies a sort of order in combat movements, such as:

First combat movement: Attack Spain so Spain is no longer neutral.
afterwards:
Second combat movement: Fly over Spain to attack Yugoslavia.

As written above “All combat movement is considered to take place at the same time.” (Rulebook Europe, page 13).
So the implied order is not possible.

At the start of the combat movement phase and before all combat moves Spain is neutral. Now all combat moves occur simultaneously.

And Spain losing its neutrality is a consequence of a combat move.

[JDOW]

Yep. This sounds absolutely logic the me. I aaked gamerman too but to me it seems that your move was not legal. Neuttal crush csn give you extra ncm options not the option to attack „behind“ a neutral after a fly over.

[JDOW]

And just to emphasize again because you said it wrong. You may fly over spain after it was attacked. But you cannot e.g fly over sweden then unless you attacked it or germans took it.

[JDOW]

But very interesting situation. Curious if gamerman confirms too:-)

[BSD]

You guys are confusing True Neutral with Pro Axis/Allied neutrals.  Once I declare war on all True Neutral powers, then I am at war with all of them regardless of if i initiated a move into their territory or not.

[BSD]

If Spain was a pro-Axis Neutral then you’d be correct that this is not a legal move because I must initiate combat with them before flying over.  But since Spain is a Neutral country, then I am at war with them in my political phase after I DOW the True Neutrals and I can fly over them in combat phase just like I could any other country or zone that I am at war with.

[JDOW]

No. This kust just wrong. Just read the triplea history. After you declare war tontje neuttals they become axis friendlY. Not more.

[JDOW]

So as said. In your next turn im this game. You csnt just fly ober eg venezuela unless you attack it.

[JDOW]

Neutrals are different. This is not like italy declaring war on Russia and then can fly over unlimited over red territories.

[JDOW]

Americans succeeds on action: Political Action Allies To War With TrueNeutrals: Changing Relationship for Neutral_True and Italians from Strict_Neutral to Friendly_Neutral

TripleA is correct here. After the dow all neuttals become axis friendly and not just a hostile ( such as russia becomes hostile adter german dow)power as you claimed.

[BSD]

@JDOW:

Americans succeeds on action: Political Action Allies To War With TrueNeutrals: Changing Relationship for Neutral_True and Italians from Strict_Neutral to Friendly_Neutral

TripleA is correct here. After the dow all neuttals become axis friendly and not just a hostile ( such as russia becomes hostile adter german dow)power as you claimed.

Ah OK, I forgot that they go Pro.  Since that is the case then I agree that you probably can’t attack behind the territory with planes, but I would like to still wait for the ruling.  Thanks.

[JDOW]

Thanks for acknowledging. And I am also curious about the ruling.

[BSD]

@JDOW:

Thanks for acknowledging. And I am also curious about the ruling.

Yeah, me too.

[BSD]

What is the story here?  Is someone giving us a ruling?