A discussion on Russia's National Advantages

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    IL

    Considering how bad the Russian advantages are, over all, I don’t think allowing the complexes to move around is going to cause much strife for the Axis.

    Remember, you cannot both move it into newly taken territory and build there.  However, you could retreat it to friendly territory and build there (assuming it’s your territory.)

    Honestly, I like the idea of bringing the Caucasus IC up to Karelia eventually.  Yea, Cuacasus is high value, but Karelia is easier to defend and it si a VC


  • yes but the same factory can move every turn! its like they use the Caucasus factory and plop it in any territory getting infantry to any Soviet territory… which is like why even have the Railway NA? the factory NA can do this better.

    The second Soviet factory can deploy against the Japanese and then back up or advance each turn like a siege tower…

    If you think about it its makes AA into chutes and ladders… totally unrealistic.


  • i can see slowing it, but not limiting the number of moves.
    what i mean is you can’t use it the turn it moves. that would mean it would slow it’s use, but not limit it too much.

    i always thought USSR should have a new Malita/conscript unit, and NA’s could work for this great. at $1 or $2 they get a unit that attacks and deffends at 1, Artillary has no bonus to it, and it can only move with in USSR starting territoris. that was before the west USSR teritory, so that may extend to that, but not further.
    it’s a little off topic, but it also fits hear i think as it would be a NA…. cheap crummy infantry.


  • cheap crummy infantry….

    yea thats something they had alot of. Not exactly PC but accurate.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Well, the Railway works differently then mobile Industry.

    The biggest difference is the IC has to take forever to move east and when it gets there it’s producing 1 unit.

    The Railway can move thousands of units in a turn two spaces.  Much better, IMHO, if you are going KJF.

    However, the most I ever see the Russian IC move is into Ukraine.


  • war should never be PC, when you make it so you lose more then you should.

    another option would be allow them something like China has in the Pacific. free Infantry but if they meet a condition of holding the right teritories.
    i like the cheap crumy infantry better though as it has more charicter and shows how poor there economy realy was.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    AARe has Siberian Conscripts.  Doesn’t work out too well for Russia.

    Back to AAR

    So we’re pretty secure with the statement that:

    Mobilize Industrial Complexes means you may move that Industrial Complex to any Russian controlled land territory at the time you move it.  If the territory was conquered this round, then no units may be built there.  If the unit started the round under Russia’s control, then it may build up to the land value of the territory.


    Sorry, i want to avoid re-writing the National Advantages.  I want to lock down definitions and clear up ambiguities on the ones we have in LHTR.  I admit, 67-100% of Russia’s NAs suck.


  • Mobilize Industrial Complexes means you may move that Industrial Complex to any land territory Russian controlled  at the time you move it.  If the territory was conquered this round, then no units may be built there.  If the territory started the round under Russia’s control, then it may build up to the land value of the territory.  More than 1 IC may occupy the same territory, but the build limit for the territory remains the territory value regardless of the number of IC’s


  • Well, the Railway works differently then mobile Industry.

    Yes this is true moving the factory every turn and bringing down 2-3 infantry in any Soviet Territory ( depending on its value) is much faster deployment of troops than the ones moving 2 spaces along those listed territories. How many units would be moving from west to east? i guess not more than 2-3 anyway.

    Thats why it seems like it sort of trumps the Railway NA because its more efficient. The only thing the Railway thing is good for is ONE extra space for TWO units ONLY within those listed territories.


  • And the IC drops to 1 unit once you reach Yakut; and the units still only achieve a net 1 space move with the mobile IC instead of 2 spaces per turn with the railway.

    Plus the Mobile IC puts the actual IC at risk which is never a concern with the railway.


  • No its worse than that. The Soviet player can capture a Japanese territory or German territory and bring the factory closer. If Japan gets bumped off the mainland or looks weak the Soviets can place a factory over by Manchuria and really give a Japanese a good KJF.

    The fact that every turn it can move makes it ridiculous because it will always be out of harms way. never bombed, never taken unless the Soviet player likes to play Russian roulette with his army and take lots of chances.

    I would never choose the railway NA just to gain one space in NCM

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Most players random the NAs, so it’s not a choice of “choosing” railway, you might just get it assigned to you.

    Anyway, that’s a good thing, if Russia’s strong enough to take your ICs in Manchuria, Kwangtung and/or FIC then do you honestly think you have a chance to win anyway?  Remember, they have to take it AND hold it for a round before they can move it out, just like an AA Gun.

    Also, it’s a good tactic for Russia to blitz out of Russia before it falls, leaving blockers in place and get those ICs over to SFE/Yak/Buryatia where they can be captured, but serve little to no real purpose to the enemy. =)


  • In a Russia Sacrifice KGF, stranding those IC’s in Evenk and Novo/Kazakh would be a good strat…  3 units by Japan instead of 12…
    Another Karma point for that one Jen.


  • Ah yeah thats a good one.


  • @ncscswitch:

    In a Russia Sacrifice KGF, stranding those IC’s in Evenk and Novo/Kazakh would be a good strat…  3 units by Japan instead of 12…
    Another Karma point for that one Jen.

    (in Russian accent)

    In my country, they give medals to the winners, and shoot the losers.

    (note:  that’s supposed to be humor, not commentary on Russian politics)


  • @Cmdr:

    1. Salvage

    To be honest, this is the worst National Advantage in the game.  I’ve only gotten this once, and that’s because I had a stellar defense of Russia against the Germans which netted me an extra tank that died to Japan.

    How about the Russians can buy back a number of their own destroyed tanks at 1 or 2 IPC?

    Maybe 1 in 5 - or they get 1 of their own dead tanks back for free out of every 5 destroyed?

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    I’d rather go free Russian tank each game round Russia destroys a German tank.

    If you kill 40 German tanks, you still only get one.  However, if Germany attacks and you kill a tank, you get one, OR if you attack and kill a German tank you get one. (Only one per game round! That means every nation gets to go before you get another free tank.)

    Most rounds, obviously, you would not get any tanks.  Some rounds you would.  Much better then salvage though.


  • I play face-to-face with all 6 NAs turned on for all 5 nations.  In the 15 games I have played in this way, I have seen Salvage taken advantage of exactly twice.  There may have been some fights in there where it was forgotten, but STILL.  That’s a pretty poor return on an “advantage” if you ask me.

    Russian Winter merely gets you a round of breathing room.  Useful when it’s coming down to the wire and Moscow is threatened.  The Japanese player tends to forget that this NA has been activated when his turn rolls around, and might make miscalculations in the east to reflect that.

    Railway is consistently useful in every game.

    Nonaggression Treaty can be a blessing or a curse.  Sometimes you’re afraid to take easy Manchurian pickings just because you don’t want to lose your 4 free men.  Sometimes the threat of those free men can keep Japan off your doorstep for a good long while.  It all depends on what you can force her priorities to be.

    Mobile Industry is useful for pulling the Caucasus IC back when that territory is threatened.  If Germany can build 4 units in Caucasus, you’re on the verge of screwed.  Retreating the complex means that you don’t HAVE to retake Caucasus next round (a heavy strafe is often adequate to set up for the following round retake).

    Lend-lease.  I like it, but usually Allied gear thus obtained is destroyed before it has the chance to actually do anything.  (arriving typically in war-torn territories as they so often do).  And often I’d rather have a US or UK unit messing around in the area rather than just another soviet soldier.

    ~Josh


  • Thing is if you play with all NAs on, the Allies’ NAs can’t get much more useful or else they get an advantage by sheer number of NAs (18 vs 12). There’s a reason that all of Germany’s are good and only 2-3 are good per Allies.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    I agree, Bean.  If you play 18 NAs vs 12 NAs then the Allies have a significant advantage.  That’s why I am trying to lock down what the NAs do and do not allow you to do on an individual basis and try to get the NAs for the allies to equal in number the NAs for the axis. (Might be interesting to give the axis an NA in lieu of a bid as well.)

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