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+++== fighters with stripes on land are dive bombers, On sea are naval fighters
Thats not going to be any good.
eg. The striped fighter at Haiwaii Island territory is meant to be naval fighter not dive bomber right?
ok i will have “fighter-bomber” and “naval fighter” under these planes… the same for cruisers
Regarding the orientation not consistent among nations, I am talking about nose point left or nose point right. Shou’d flip them so its consistent for all nations.
Even better to make them consistent across the board.
Or all naval units and naval fighters angle the same way.
==== some nations with similar colors should have them pointed in opposite directions
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Japan: Manchuko is 1 IPC + IC. Kirin is 2 IPC. Is that ok?
++++++++++ Manchuko is not protected,too low IPC, and out of the action, plus Kirin has the capital. why you want this?
No I am saying thats what it is NOW and wonder if you meant it.
I am thinking IC should be at Kirin instead.
====ok ill check
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+++++++ Well it saves UK from building one latter in the game. Australia IC is a non supporting IC and too far from africa. UK needs it where it is.
IMO India IC and 4 IPC India are really a bit over board just for balance or unseen balance issues. The setup hasn’t even been through heavy testing.
(Spain and Turkey are both below 4 IPC and has no IC. And then we’ve got 4 IPC East Indies and Boreno. A bit out of the world by now…)
spain and turkey have no significant oil supplies…those two pacific islands are most valuable to japan and the reason why Japan is even in the game, because they needed that oil
I think a better approach is to set a better “victory city point” victory condition instead of these funny things under “balance issues”.
OOB Axis start 33 win 45
OOB Allies start 44 win 551939 Axis 17 win Huh
1939 Allies HEAPS win Huh
====== i don’t understand this….what are you saying?
Oil fields
You made a rule that if you lose all your orignal oil fields your units move less.
But only USSR is prone. (US also has original oil fields but they look safe lol. The other nations do not have original oil fields.)Romania should be important to Germany.
East Indice and Boreno should be important to Japan.
Middle East should be important to UK.So need to tune the oil field rule.
===uk will need to capture more oil fields ( Persia) just like they did. Germany and Soviets will need to hold on to the ones they got… The middle east is important to uk because her oil is in the middle east. what is at issue?
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I propose we allow a special rule that this Graf Spee can dock one turn in any south American ‘port’ and avoid being attacked for one turn. Sort of a special historical rule for only the first 1-2 turns.
This is a good idea.
I think it could be a standard rule to dock at neutrals.
Or neutrals at certain level of cooperation.Attacking the docked unit is an attack on the neutral.
Docked units do not block the sea zone.
====yes but its only a one turn thing and yes it would require at least one level of diplomacy toward that players side…so Argentina would need to be one level pro axis which i think they already are.
post how it should read… i also like the no block the sea zone thing.
@Imperious:
ok i will have “fighter-bomber” and “naval fighter” under these planes… the same for cruisers
Well icons are still more elegant.
I reckon you could try to paint the wings black or something for naval fighters.
Paint the body black or something for fighter-bomber.
==== some nations with similar colors should have them pointed in opposite directions
Oh I see. Then we go with consistency within a nation rather than across the gameboard.
those two pacific islands are most valuable to japan and the reason why Japan is even in the game, because they needed that oil
We went through this.
You say remain at 4 IPC to represent oil fields.
I say we have oil fields rule already.
You say Japan needs that income.
We didn’t find a solution.
But doesn’t matter, I am not complainting in particular of those two 4 IPC islands.
I am only saying we can’t have too many of these things.
The complaint do you have strong enough agreement to make yet another “quick fix”. (India’s 4 IPC and IC)
OOB Axis start 33 win 45
OOB Allies start 44 win 55
1939 Axis 17 win Huh
1939 Allies HEAPS win Huh====== i don’t understand this….what are you saying?
I mean maybe you should set new VCP winning numbers for the 1939 scenario.
OOB scenario
Axis start@33 win@45
Allies start@44 win@55
1939 scenario
Axis start@19 win@ ?
Allies start@24 win@ ?
Oil fields
You made a rule that if you lose all your orignal oil fields your units move less.
But only USSR is prone. (US also has original oil fields but they look safe lol. The other nations do not have original oil fields.)Romania should be important to Germany.
East Indice and Boreno should be important to Japan.
Middle East should be important to UK.So need to tune the oil field rule.
===uk will need to capture more oil fields ( Persia) just like they did. Germany and Soviets will need to hold on to the ones they got… The middle east is important to uk because her oil is in the middle east. what is at issue?
Only USSR and US has oil fields in their original territories.
Your rule says if you lose all your original oil fields, movement is restricted.
Hence you need to tune the rule.
Because UK Japan and Germany has no oil fields at game setup and you want to force them to take oil fields.
One simple change is movement is restricted if you have no oil fields.
So you could make it
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I propose we allow a special rule that this Graf Spee can dock one turn in any south American ‘port’ and avoid being attacked for one turn. Sort of a special historical rule for only the first 1-2 turns.
This is a good idea.
I think it could be a standard rule to dock at neutrals.
Or neutrals at certain level of cooperation.Attacking the docked unit is an attack on the neutral.
Docked units do not block the sea zone.====yes but its only a one turn thing and yes it would require at least one level of diplomacy toward that players side…so Argentina would need to be one level pro axis which i think they already are.
post how it should read… i also like the no block the sea zone thing.
I just add to the diplomacy section that allies/axis naval units can dock at neutrals with +1/-1 level of co-operation.
Besides adding to the +5….-5 table I add this paragraph.
Naval units may “dock” at neutrals with at least 1 level of co-operation towards your team. An attack on a docked naval unit is an attack on the neutral. Naval units may not “dock” at the same neutral for two consecutive game rounds.
However you didn’t change the 1939 scenario diplomacy values for South American territories.
So they are the same as OOB scenario.
Argentina 0
Peru1 +1
Venezula +1
So make sure you revise the initial diplomacy values for 1939 scenario.
ok i will have “fighter-bomber” and “naval fighter” under these planes… the same for cruisers
Well icons are still more elegant.I reckon you could try to paint the wings black or something for naval fighters.
Paint the body black or something for fighter-bomber.
=== Im not going to ‘fix’ the art of somebody else. I script under the units will suffice.
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those two pacific islands are most valuable to japan and the reason why Japan is even in the game, because they needed that oil
We went through this.
You say remain at 4 IPC to represent oil fields.
I say we have oil fields rule already.
You say Japan needs that income.We didn’t find a solution.
But doesn’t matter, I am not complainting in particular of those two 4 IPC islands.
I am only saying we can’t have too many of these things.The complaint do you have strong enough agreement to make yet another “quick fix”. (India’s 4 IPC and IC)
====== ok Austrialian IC. I will remove India IC
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OOB Axis start 33 win 45
OOB Allies start 44 win 55
1939 Axis 17 win Huh
1939 Allies HEAPS win Huh====== i don’t understand this….what are you saying?
I mean maybe you should set new VCP winning numbers for the 1939 scenario.OOB scenario
Axis start@33 win@45
Allies start@44 win@551939 scenario
Axis start@19 win@ ?
Allies start@24 win@ ?
====== the end result is the same…
axis at 45 and allies at 55… it will take longer to get to that point which is why the 1939 scenario exists… for longer games
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Oil fields
You made a rule that if you lose all your orignal oil fields your units move less.
But only USSR is prone. (US also has original oil fields but they look safe lol. The other nations do not have original oil fields.)Romania should be important to Germany.
East Indice and Boreno should be important to Japan.
Middle East should be important to UK.So need to tune the oil field rule.
===uk will need to capture more oil fields ( Persia) just like they did. Germany and Soviets will need to hold on to the ones they got… The middle east is important to uk because her oil is in the middle east. what is at issue?
Only USSR and US has oil fields in their original territories.
Your rule says if you lose all your original oil fields, movement is restricted.Hence you need to tune the rule.
Because UK Japan and Germany has no oil fields at game setup and you want to force them to take oil fields.One simple change is movement is restricted if you have no oil fields.
So you could make it
++++++ well they could have a reserve of X amount of turns… in germanys case until Romania is activated ( i think thats turn 3-4)… in Japans case it would be end of 1941 ( turn 6?)
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Quote
I propose we allow a special rule that this Graf Spee can dock one turn in any south American ‘port’ and avoid being attacked for one turn. Sort of a special historical rule for only the first 1-2 turns.
This is a good idea.
I think it could be a standard rule to dock at neutrals.
Or neutrals at certain level of cooperation.Attacking the docked unit is an attack on the neutral.
Docked units do not block the sea zone.====yes but its only a one turn thing and yes it would require at least one level of diplomacy toward that players side…so Argentina would need to be one level pro axis which i think they already are.
post how it should read… i also like the no block the sea zone thing.
I just add to the diplomacy section that allies/axis naval units can dock at neutrals with +1/-1 level of co-operation.
Besides adding to the +5…-5 table I add this paragraph.Naval units may “dock” at neutrals with at least 1 level of co-operation towards your team. An attack on a docked naval unit is an attack on the neutral. Naval units may not “dock” at the same neutral for two consecutive game rounds.
However you didn’t change the 1939 scenario diplomacy values for South American territories.
So they are the same as OOB scenario.Argentina 0
Peru1 +1
Venezula +1So make sure you revise the initial diplomacy values for 1939 scenario.
make the changes necessary.
ok new file:
http://www.mediafire.com/?ctjmmsb1wmm
http://www.mediafire.com/upload_complete.php?id=btvdzje1sjn
if i missed something let me know.
Note: you need to add Balkans to neutral as +1 axis diplomacy and have them with my set up
also, the spainish 5th infantry is in Rio de Oro ( presumably to protect it from flashman)
++++++ well they could have a reserve of X amount of turns… in germanys case until Romania is activated ( i think thats turn 3-4)… in Japans case it would be end of 1941 ( turn 6?)
Ok make the changes. Look for this sentence in the file…
When you hold none of your original oil centers, all non-infantry units cost one additional…
for a universal 3 game rounds of oil reserves
-> When you hold no oil centers for 3 consecutive game rounds, all non-infantry units cost one additional…
Or, you can draw a table to say what X value you are using for each nation.
make the changes necessary.
Ok I’ve added the docking bits to the base rules file.
ok new file:
http://www.mediafire.com/?ctjmmsb1wmm
I see you’ve placed Spain’s neutral naval units in SZ12.
Remember you made it Turkey has 1 destroyer too.
Secondly, you made it that neutral naval units are placed in any adjacent sea zone decided by the defending player.
So for my OOB map I put Spain’s and Turkey’s naval unit icons in the territory itself.
Note: you need to add Balkans to neutral as +1 axis diplomacy and have them with my set up
Wait. What do you mean?
I am maintaining the base rules file and map.
You are maintaining the 1939 module.
Heres the link again…
http://home.exetel.com.au/cometo/20071129_AARHE_1939.doc
also, the spainish 5th infantry is in Rio de Oro ( presumably to protect it from flashman)
Ok I add it to base rules file.
You adjust 1939 rules file accordingly.
Where is flashman these days…
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++++++ well they could have a reserve of X amount of turns… in germanys case until Romania is activated ( i think thats turn 3-4)… in Japans case it would be end of 1941 ( turn 6?)Ok make the changes. Look for this sentence in the file…
When you hold none of your original oil centers, all non-infantry units cost one additional…
for a universal 3 game rounds of oil reserves
-> When you hold no oil centers for 3 consecutive game rounds, all non-infantry units cost one additional…
Or, you can draw a table to say what X value you are using for each nation.
==== the three turn thing is nice a easy. add it. X value adds too much to worry about.
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ok new file:
http://www.mediafire.com/?ctjmmsb1wmm
I see you’ve placed Spain’s neutral naval units in SZ12.Remember you made it Turkey has 1 destroyer too.
Secondly, you made it that neutral naval units are placed in any adjacent sea zone decided by the defending player.
So for my OOB map I put Spain’s and Turkey’s naval unit icons in the territory itself.
===================yes thats correct on the naval placement, also correct on turkey. make sure to add it in the rules ( one destroyer)
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Note: you need to add Balkans to neutral as +1 axis diplomacy and have them with my set up
Wait. What do you mean?
I am maintaining the base rules file and map.
You are maintaining the 1939 module.
============== no no your the rules compiler.
Heres the link again…
http://home.exetel.com.au/cometo/20071129_AARHE_1939.doc
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also, the spainish 5th infantry is in Rio de Oro ( presumably to protect it from flashman)
Ok I add it to base rules file.
You adjust 1939 rules file accordingly.
=========== no no i got too much to do already… i have to make new set up sheets remember??
Where is flashman these days…
I think someone gave him an actual map of the world in 1939 and he learned the error of his ways… He probably also found out that the Japanese army used the rising sun flag exclusively over the meatball, and Vichy France was not called the “french state”… and now he must repent these sins before god.
2007-12-20 PNG export
http://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=20071220aarhe1939cy0.png
alright alright I’ll handle the 1939 rules file
Argentina was 0 now -1
updated the neutrals table with your new setup values
@Imperious:
also here is the set up file.
http://www.mediafire.com/?bmzlyvw37yz
http://www.mediafire.com/upload_complete.php?id=iym5wbmjzx9
I think you will need to add some text thats similar in each case to what we have under the PDF’s that are still around.
Id also add the starting IPC values along with the name of the nation is some nice script ( font)
You tend to name a lot of files with “final” lol. Looking back we’ve had so many “final” versions.
I tend to just use dated filename.
Talk of text/script/font, the user might not have a particular font you have.
And you tend to use non-typed text. Editing can be difficult.
So which map do you want me to populate the table with?
Have you done further play testing?
As for make-pretty of OOB/1939/1942 maps…
I am thinking the 1942 map shall be remade. Recall I find that map only a quick hack to add Italy as 6th player.
We’ll try to have a system. I’ll create a base file with layers and stuff and stanard symbols among AARHE.
(Its so easy to edit a layered map. You just unlock the layer you want to edit.)
It’ll also have a backup layer of the world map I used.
(We can’t actually neatly use the “real map” project map to make AARHE 1939, the countries are merged and it seems you can’t unmerge in illustrator?)
And then you make the 1939 and I make the 1942.
Using the real map we’ll probably redraw the sea zones.
I have a few pictures of our map being played by others at conventions. That map was printed by somebody else who brought it to play OOB revised in a tournament. I have more pictures of this type of thing over the months and years.
This was being played using OOB rules, but it gives you some idea thats its a nice job. Also, my 1939 map is ready to be picked up and ill get some pictures out soon.
http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=by3m9maz4ld&thumb=4
http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=9tz3ycjxzgx&thumb=4
Heres a different one: notice the name change… LOL “Dale Conklin edition”
http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=7ojixdouxbf&thumb=4
but thats the AARHE standard map not the AARHE 1939 map (forum topic name) :wink:
oh they were using an older version without the more realistic VC location and setup icons
Its pictures from over a year ago.
I will post 1939 AARHE map pics soon
