Desert Admiral (Axis) vs omega1759 (Allies+15)

[Desert_Admiral]

TripleA Move Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 7

Research Technology - Germans

Purchase Units - Germans
            Germans buy 9 armour and 1 bomber; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Germans
            1 cruiser moved from 113 Sea Zone to 112 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Novgorod to 112 Sea Zone
            2 bombers moved from Novgorod to 112 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from Western Germany to 112 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Western Germany to 112 Sea Zone
            1 artillery moved from Baltic States to Eastern Poland
            1 infantry moved from Baltic States to Eastern Poland
            1 infantry moved from Novgorod to Archangel
                  Germans take Archangel from Russians
            1 infantry moved from Novgorod to Belarus
                  Germans take Belarus from Russians
            1 mech_infantry moved from Rostov to Smolensk
                  Germans take Smolensk from Russians
            2 armour moved from Rostov to Tambov
            1 armour moved from Rostov to Caucasus
                  Germans take Caucasus from Russians
            1 armour moved from Western Ukraine to Eastern Poland
            9 armour moved from Ukraine to Volgograd
                  Germans take Volgograd from Russians
            3 infantry moved from Ukraine to Rostov
            2 infantry moved from France to Holland Belgium
            2 artilleries moved from Western Germany to Holland Belgium
            1 infantry moved from Western Germany to Holland Belgium
            1 infantry moved from Western Germany to Holland Belgium

triplea_40497.0_Ger7.tsvg

[Desert_Admiral]

Do you want American sub to defend or submerge?

[Omega1759]

The sub is fighting

[Desert_Admiral]

Order of loss?

[Omega1759]

Depends on how many hits

[Desert_Admiral]

First roll, 5 hits

[Omega1759]

@Desert_Admiral:

First roll, 5 hits

5 hits?!

Keep the two fighters and the sub

[Desert_Admiral]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 7

Research Technology - Germans

Purchase Units - Germans
            Germans buy 9 armour and 1 bomber; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Germans
            1 cruiser moved from 113 Sea Zone to 112 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Novgorod to 112 Sea Zone
            2 bombers moved from Novgorod to 112 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from Western Germany to 112 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Western Germany to 112 Sea Zone
            1 artillery moved from Baltic States to Eastern Poland
            1 infantry moved from Baltic States to Eastern Poland
            1 infantry moved from Novgorod to Archangel
                  Germans take Archangel from Russians
            1 infantry moved from Novgorod to Belarus
                  Germans take Belarus from Russians
            1 mech_infantry moved from Rostov to Smolensk
                  Germans take Smolensk from Russians
            2 armour moved from Rostov to Tambov
            1 armour moved from Rostov to Caucasus
                  Germans take Caucasus from Russians
            1 armour moved from Western Ukraine to Eastern Poland
            9 armour moved from Ukraine to Volgograd
                  Germans take Volgograd from Russians
            3 infantry moved from Ukraine to Rostov
            2 infantry moved from France to Holland Belgium
            2 artilleries moved from Western Germany to Holland Belgium
            1 infantry moved from Western Germany to Holland Belgium
            1 infantry moved from Western Germany to Holland Belgium

Combat - Germans
            Battle in Holland Belgium
                Germans attack with 2 artilleries and 4 infantry
                British defend with 1 armour, 1 artillery and 2 infantry
                Germans win, taking Holland Belgium from British with 2 artilleries remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4
                Casualties for Germans: 4 infantry
                Casualties for British: 1 armour, 1 artillery and 2 infantry
            Battle in Tambov
                Germans attack with 2 armour
                Russians defend with 1 infantry
                Germans win, taking Tambov from Russians with 2 armour remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
            Battle in Eastern Poland
                Germans attack with 1 armour, 1 artillery and 1 infantry
                Russians defend with 1 mech_infantry
                Germans win, taking Eastern Poland from Russians with 1 armour, 1 artillery and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4
                Casualties for Russians: 1 mech_infantry
            Battle in 112 Sea Zone
                Germans attack with 2 bombers, 1 cruiser, 1 fighter and 2 tactical_bombers
                Americans defend with 1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 2 destroyers, 2 fighters, 1 submarine and 1 transport
                1 submarine owned by the Americans Submerged
                Germans win with 2 bombers and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 38
                Casualties for Germans: 1 cruiser, 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber
                Casualties for Americans: 1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 2 destroyers, 2 fighters and 1 transport

Non Combat Move - Germans
            1 infantry moved from Novgorod to Karelia
            1 transport moved from 115 Sea Zone to 114 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from 112 Sea Zone to Western Germany
            1 infantry moved from Germany to 114 Sea Zone
            1 artillery moved from Germany to 114 Sea Zone
            1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 114 Sea Zone to 115 Sea Zone
            1 artillery moved from 115 Sea Zone to Finland
            1 infantry moved from 115 Sea Zone to Finland
            2 bombers moved from 112 Sea Zone to France
            2 artilleries moved from Germany to Western Germany
            6 armour moved from Western Ukraine to Rostov

Place Units - Germans
            1 armour placed in Western Germany
            1 bomber placed in France
            3 armour placed in Ukraine
            3 armour placed in Novgorod
            2 armour placed in Romania

Turn Complete - Germans
            Germans collect 56 PUs; end with 56 PUs total
            Objective Germans 2 Control Novgorod Or Volgograd Or Russia: Germans met a national objective for an additional 10 PUs; end with 66 PUs
            Objective Germans 3 Control Caucasus: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 71 PUs

triplea_40497.0_Ger7.tsvg

[Desert_Admiral]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 7

Research Technology - Germans

Purchase Units - Germans
            Germans buy 9 armour and 1 bomber; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Germans
            1 cruiser moved from 113 Sea Zone to 112 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Novgorod to 112 Sea Zone
            2 bombers moved from Novgorod to 112 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from Western Germany to 112 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Western Germany to 112 Sea Zone
            1 artillery moved from Baltic States to Eastern Poland
            1 infantry moved from Baltic States to Eastern Poland
            1 infantry moved from Novgorod to Archangel
                  Germans take Archangel from Russians
            1 infantry moved from Novgorod to Belarus
                  Germans take Belarus from Russians
            1 mech_infantry moved from Rostov to Smolensk
                  Germans take Smolensk from Russians
            2 armour moved from Rostov to Tambov
            1 armour moved from Rostov to Caucasus
                  Germans take Caucasus from Russians
            1 armour moved from Western Ukraine to Eastern Poland
            9 armour moved from Ukraine to Volgograd
                  Germans take Volgograd from Russians
            3 infantry moved from Ukraine to Rostov
            2 infantry moved from France to Holland Belgium
            2 artilleries moved from Western Germany to Holland Belgium
            1 infantry moved from Western Germany to Holland Belgium
            1 infantry moved from Western Germany to Holland Belgium

Combat - Germans
            Battle in Holland Belgium
                Germans attack with 2 artilleries and 4 infantry
                British defend with 1 armour, 1 artillery and 2 infantry
                    Germans roll dice for 2 artilleries and 4 infantry in Holland Belgium, round 2 :  1/6 hits
                    British roll dice for 1 armour, 1 artillery and 2 infantry in Holland Belgium, round 2 :  2/4 hits
                    2 infantry owned by the Germans and 1 infantry owned by the British lost in Holland Belgium
                    Germans roll dice for 2 artilleries and 2 infantry in Holland Belgium, round 3 :  1/4 hits
                    British roll dice for 1 armour, 1 artillery and 1 infantry in Holland Belgium, round 3 :  0/3 hits
                    1 infantry owned by the British lost in Holland Belgium
                    Germans roll dice for 2 artilleries and 2 infantry in Holland Belgium, round 4 :  2/4 hits
                    British roll dice for 1 armour and 1 artillery in Holland Belgium, round 4 :  2/2 hits
                    1 armour owned by the British, 2 infantry owned by the Germans and 1 artillery owned by the British lost in Holland Belgium
                Germans win, taking Holland Belgium from British with 2 artilleries remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4
                Casualties for Germans: 4 infantry
                Casualties for British: 1 armour, 1 artillery and 2 infantry
            Battle in Tambov
                Germans attack with 2 armour
                Russians defend with 1 infantry
                    Germans roll dice for 2 armour in Tambov, round 2 :  0/2 hits
                    Russians roll dice for 1 infantry in Tambov, round 2 :  0/1 hits
                    Germans roll dice for 2 armour in Tambov, round 3 :  2/2 hits
                    Russians roll dice for 1 infantry in Tambov, round 3 :  0/1 hits
                    1 infantry owned by the Russians lost in Tambov
                Germans win, taking Tambov from Russians with 2 armour remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
            Battle in Eastern Poland
                Germans attack with 1 armour, 1 artillery and 1 infantry
                Russians defend with 1 mech_infantry
                    Germans roll dice for 1 armour, 1 artillery and 1 infantry in Eastern Poland, round 2 :  0/3 hits
                    Russians roll dice for 1 mech_infantry in Eastern Poland, round 2 :  0/1 hits
                    Germans roll dice for 1 armour, 1 artillery and 1 infantry in Eastern Poland, round 3 :  3/3 hits
                    Russians roll dice for 1 mech_infantry in Eastern Poland, round 3 :  0/1 hits
                    1 mech_infantry owned by the Russians lost in Eastern Poland
                Germans win, taking Eastern Poland from Russians with 1 armour, 1 artillery and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4
                Casualties for Russians: 1 mech_infantry
            Battle in 112 Sea Zone
                Germans attack with 2 bombers, 1 cruiser, 1 fighter and 2 tactical_bombers
                Americans defend with 1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 2 destroyers, 2 fighters, 1 submarine and 1 transport
                    Americans roll dice for 1 submarine in 112 Sea Zone, round 2 :  0/1 hits
                    Germans roll dice for 2 bombers, 1 fighter and 2 tactical_bombers in 112 Sea Zone, round 2 :  5/5 hits
                    Germans roll dice for 1 cruiser in 112 Sea Zone, round 2 :  0/1 hits
                    Americans roll dice for 1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 2 destroyers, 2 fighters and 1 transport in 112 Sea Zone, round 2 :  3/6 hits
                    1 tactical_bomber owned by the Germans, 1 carrier owned by the Americans, 1 fighter owned by the Germans, 1 cruiser owned by the Americans, 2 destroyers owned by the Americans and 1 cruiser owned by the Germans lost in 112 Sea Zone
                1 submarine owned by the Americans Submerged
                    Germans roll dice for 2 bombers and 1 tactical_bomber in 112 Sea Zone, round 3 :  2/3 hits
                    Americans roll dice for 2 fighters and 1 transport in 112 Sea Zone, round 3 :  0/2 hits
                    2 fighters owned by the Americans lost in 112 Sea Zone
                    1 transport owned by the Americans lost in 112 Sea Zone
                Germans win with 2 bombers and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 38
                Casualties for Germans: 1 cruiser, 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber
                Casualties for Americans: 1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 2 destroyers, 2 fighters and 1 transport

Non Combat Move - Germans
            1 infantry moved from Novgorod to Karelia
            1 transport moved from 115 Sea Zone to 114 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from 112 Sea Zone to Western Germany
            1 infantry moved from Germany to 114 Sea Zone
            1 artillery moved from Germany to 114 Sea Zone
            1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 114 Sea Zone to 115 Sea Zone
            1 artillery moved from 115 Sea Zone to Finland
            1 infantry moved from 115 Sea Zone to Finland
            2 bombers moved from 112 Sea Zone to France
            2 artilleries moved from Germany to Western Germany
            6 armour moved from Western Ukraine to Rostov

Place Units - Germans
            1 armour placed in Western Germany
            1 bomber placed in France
            3 armour placed in Ukraine
            3 armour placed in Novgorod
            2 armour placed in Romania

Turn Complete - Germans
            Germans collect 56 PUs; end with 56 PUs total
            Objective Germans 2 Control Novgorod Or Volgograd Or Russia: Germans met a national objective for an additional 10 PUs; end with 66 PUs
            Objective Germans 3 Control Caucasus: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 71 PUs

Territory Summary for Germans :

France : 1 flag, 1 airfield, 3 bombers and 1 factory_minor
    Western Germany : 6 aaGuns, 1 airfield, 1 armour, 2 artilleries, 1 factory_major, 1 harbour and 1 tactical_bomber
    Romania : 2 armour and 1 factory_major
    Germany : 1 factory_major
    Denmark : 1 artillery and 1 infantry
    Holland Belgium : 2 artilleries
    Belarus : 1 flag, 1 infantry
    Karelia : 1 flag, 1 infantry
    Baltic States : 1 flag
    Bryansk : 1 flag
    Rostov : 1 flag, 13 armour and 3 infantry
    Archangel : 1 flag, 1 infantry
    Eastern Poland : 1 flag, 1 armour, 1 artillery and 1 infantry
    Bessarabia : 1 flag
    Tambov : 1 flag, 2 armour
    Ukraine : 1 flag, 3 armour and 1 factory_minor
    Western Ukraine : 1 flag
    Volgograd : 1 flag, 9 armour and 1 factory_minor
    Novgorod : 1 flag, 1 airfield, 3 armour, 1 factory_minor and 1 harbour
    Caucasus : 1 flag, 1 armour
    Smolensk : 1 flag, 1 mech_infantry
    106 Sea Zone : 1 flag
    Bulgaria : 1 flag
    Greece : 1 flag, 1 armour and 3 infantry
    115 Sea Zone : 1 transport
    Finland : 1 flag, 1 artillery and 1 infantry

Production/PUs Summary :

Germans : 56 / 71
    Russians : 6 / 31
    Japanese : 26 / 32
    Americans : 58 / 88
    Chinese : 22 / 22
    British : 32 / 40
    UK_Pacific : 25 / 30
    Italians : 15 / 20
    ANZAC : 14 / 25
    French : 11 / 0
    Dutch : 0 / 0
    Mongolians : 0 / 0
    Neutral_Axis : 0 / 0
    Neutral_Allies : 0 / 0
    Neutral_True : 18 / 0

Dice Statistics:

Total
            1 was rolled 9 times
            2 was rolled 8 times
            3 was rolled 10 times
            4 was rolled 10 times
            5 was rolled 7 times
            6 was rolled 11 times
        Average roll : 3.564
        Median : 4.000
        Variance : 0.204
        Standard Deviation : 0.451
        Total rolls : 55

Germans Combat
            1 was rolled 6 times
            2 was rolled 6 times
            3 was rolled 4 times
            4 was rolled 9 times
            5 was rolled 3 times
            6 was rolled 5 times
        Average roll : 3.364
        Median : 4.000
        Variance : 0.719
        Standard Deviation : 0.848
        Total rolls : 33

British Combat
            1 was rolled 1 times
            2 was rolled 2 times
            3 was rolled 2 times
            4 was rolled 1 times
            5 was rolled 1 times
            6 was rolled 2 times
        Average roll : 3.556
        Median : 3.000
        Variance : 0.375
        Standard Deviation : 0.612
        Total rolls : 9

Russians Combat
            3 was rolled 1 times
            5 was rolled 1 times
            6 was rolled 2 times
        Average roll : 5.000
        Median : 5.500
        Variance : 2.000
        Standard Deviation : 1.414
        Total rolls : 4

Americans Combat
            1 was rolled 2 times
            3 was rolled 3 times
            5 was rolled 2 times
            6 was rolled 2 times
        Average roll : 3.667
        Median : 3.000
        Variance : 1.125
        Standard Deviation : 1.061
        Total rolls : 9

triplea_40497.0_Ger7.tsvg

[Desert_Admiral]

I lost my cruiser first round, so your sub couldn’t be taken as a casualty.  Plus I had plenty of hits in the 2nd round.

[Omega1759]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 7

Purchase Units - Russians
            Russians repair damage of 13x factory_major; Remaining resources: 18 PUs;
            Russians buy 1 armour and 4 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Russians
            1 artillery and 2 infantry moved from Amur to Sakha
            1 infantry moved from Amur to Siberia
                  Russians take Siberia from Japanese
            1 artillery and 6 infantry moved from Amur to Korea
            1 artillery moved from Manchuria to Korea
            1 infantry moved from Olgiy to Yenisey
                  Russians take Yenisey from Japanese
            1 artillery and 2 infantry moved from Russia to Tambov
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Russia to Tambov
            1 artillery and 2 infantry moved from Russia to Bryansk
            3 fighters moved from Russia to Bryansk

Combat - Russians
            Battle in Bryansk
                Russians attack with 1 artillery, 3 fighters and 2 infantry
                Japanese defend with 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber
                    Russians roll dice for 1 artillery, 3 fighters and 2 infantry in Bryansk, round 2 :  3/6 hits
                    Germans roll dice for 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber in Bryansk, round 2 :  1/2 hits
                    1 fighter owned by the Japanese, 1 tactical_bomber owned by the Japanese and 1 infantry owned by the Russians lost in Bryansk
                Russians win, taking Bryansk from Germans with 1 artillery, 3 fighters and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 18
                Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber
            Battle in Tambov
                Russians attack with 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
                Germans defend with 2 armour
                    Russians roll dice for 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Tambov, round 2 :  3/5 hits
                    Germans roll dice for 2 armour in Tambov, round 2 :  1/2 hits
                    2 armour owned by the Germans and 1 infantry owned by the Russians lost in Tambov
                Russians win, taking Tambov from Germans with 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 9
                Casualties for Germans: 2 armour
                Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
            Battle in Sakha
                Russians attack with 1 artillery and 2 infantry
                Japanese defend with 1 infantry
                    Russians roll dice for 1 artillery and 2 infantry in Sakha, round 2 :  0/3 hits
                    Japanese roll dice for 1 infantry in Sakha, round 2 :  1/1 hits
                    1 infantry owned by the Russians lost in Sakha
                    Russians roll dice for 1 artillery and 1 infantry in Sakha, round 3 :  1/2 hits
                    Japanese roll dice for 1 infantry in Sakha, round 3 :  1/1 hits
                    1 infantry owned by the Japanese and 1 infantry owned by the Russians lost in Sakha
                Russians win, taking Sakha from Japanese with 1 artillery remaining. Battle score for attacker is -3
                Casualties for Russians: 2 infantry
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry
            Battle in Korea
                Russians attack with 2 artilleries and 6 infantry
                Japanese defend with 4 infantry
                    Russians roll dice for 2 artilleries and 6 infantry in Korea, round 2 :  4/8 hits
                    Japanese roll dice for 4 infantry in Korea, round 2 :  1/4 hits
                    4 infantry owned by the Japanese and 1 infantry owned by the Russians lost in Korea
                Russians win, taking Korea from Japanese with 2 artilleries and 5 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 9
                Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
                Casualties for Japanese: 4 infantry

Non Combat Move - Russians
            2 aaGuns moved from Manchuria to Korea
            1 infantry moved from Shantung to Jehol
            1 infantry moved from Suiyuyan to Kansu
            1 infantry moved from Hopei to Suiyuyan
            1 mech_infantry moved from Italian Somaliland to Anglo Egyptian Sudan
            3 fighters moved from Bryansk to Russia
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Tambov to Russia

Place Units - Russians
            1 armour and 4 infantry placed in Russia

Turn Complete - Russians
            Russians collect 14 PUs; end with 14 PUs total
            Objective Russians 2 Spread Of Communism: Russians met a national objective for an additional 6 PUs; end with 20 PUs

Territory Summary for Russians :

Korea : 1 flag, 2 aaGuns, 2 artilleries and 5 infantry
    Jehol : 1 infantry
    Suiyuyan : 1 infantry
    Kansu : 1 infantry
    Sakha : 1 artillery
    Yenisey : 1 infantry
    Siberia : 1 infantry
    Olgiy : 1 flag
    Central Mongolia : 1 flag
    Buyant-Uhaa : 1 flag
    Ulaanbaatar : 1 flag
    Tsagaan Olom : 1 flag
    Anglo Egyptian Sudan : 1 mech_infantry
    Italian Somaliland : 1 flag
    Ethiopia : 1 flag
    Bryansk : 1 artillery and 1 infantry
    Russia : 4 aaGuns, 1 airfield, 1 armour, 4 artilleries, 1 factory_major, 4 fighters, 18 infantry, 6 mech_infantrys and 1 tactical_bomber
    Tambov : 1 artillery and 1 infantry
    Northwest Persia : 1 flag

Production/PUs Summary :

Germans : 54 / 71
    Russians : 14 / 20
    Japanese : 20 / 32
    Americans : 58 / 88
    Chinese : 22 / 22
    British : 32 / 40
    UK_Pacific : 25 / 30
    Italians : 15 / 20
    ANZAC : 14 / 25
    French : 11 / 0
    Dutch : 0 / 0
    Mongolians : 0 / 0
    Neutral_Axis : 0 / 0
    Neutral_Allies : 0 / 0
    Neutral_True : 18 / 0

triplea_40497.0_Rus7.tsvg

[Omega1759]

You very much like tanks don’t you?

[Omega1759]

Stalin drawing plans for an invasion of Japan…

[Desert_Admiral]

TripleA Move Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 7

Purchase Units - Japanese
            Japanese buy 1 destroyer and 2 fighters; Remaining resources: 0 SuicideAttackTokens; 4 PUs;

Combat Move - Japanese
            1 battleship moved from 20 Sea Zone to 6 Sea Zone
            1 carrier moved from 20 Sea Zone to 6 Sea Zone
            1 cruiser moved from 20 Sea Zone to 6 Sea Zone
            1 destroyer moved from 20 Sea Zone to 6 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone
            1 armour moved from Dzavhan to Kansu
                  Japanese take Olgiy from Russians
            1 artillery moved from Novosibirsk to Kansu
            1 infantry moved from Novosibirsk to Kansu
            1 mech_infantry moved from Samara to Tambov
            1 infantry moved from Samara to Tambov
            2 bombers moved from Rostov to Tambov

triplea_40497.0_Jap7.tsvg

[Desert_Admiral]

I have played Japan very badly.

OOL in Japanese waters?

[Omega1759]

@Desert_Admiral:

I have played Japan very badly.

OOL in Japanese waters?

It depends… Roll first, post after the hits are posted.

[Desert_Admiral]

3 hits

[Omega1759]

Ok, lose 1 carrie (2 hits) and take out the Anzac fighter.

[Omega1759]

Sink carrier, then Fighters, then Battleship.

[Desert_Admiral]

Ok, hit you twice.  So to confirm you lose carrier?