China as a new sub-player



  • Well I think we are on the brink of talking Italy to death until we get some data as to the actual starting IPC values and units and placment.  So Let’s talk about the China Sub-player.

    From what I understand China will be conected to the US in that the US player controls the unit purchases, movement and placment.  China will have it’s own “bank account” to ensure that Chinese funds re spent in China and not on the US.

    In the revised board I recently brought up the Asian wall topic.  I felt this appropriate because this version may be able to change the tide in the allies favor.

    To give a brief overview of the Asian Wall strategy the UK will place a IC in India, the US in Sinkiang and Russia will mass troops somewhere north of Mongolia.  The UK and US will build troops to maintain a defensive barrier in an Alamo type stance.  This would be classified as a SJF strategy.

    Traditionally it is effective for a very short time creating dead zones until Japan punches through with overwhelming force.  The allied line tends to crumble very quickly after the initial punch because 1) It was designed to be temporary 2) the allies don’t have forces in range to back up an effective counter attack.  3) Russia has already devoted to much to this stragety so they are trying to hold the line at Moscow.

    How do you think the anniversary edition will be diffrent?

    LT

    EDIT:  One good change is that China will have to have at least one IC.


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    How do you think the anniversary edition will be different?

    I think its not safe to assume Japan and USSR will have ANY interaction in this game.

    It will be two separate wars with USA the hinge that lowers or raises the ‘sea saw’ effect of how well japan or Germany/ Italy will do in the game. If USA goes to Asia, Germany will be strong. If USA goes to Europe , Japan will be strong.

    expect something like combination of AAE and AAP. It should take Japan an entire game to take out China or India.

    I really don’t think Russia has to worry about Japan anymore until Germany is defeated



  • I wonder how they will pull that off?

    LT



  • I’ll be honest, does anyone have an idea of how china will be used as a “sub-player” to the US?



  • I would think the separation of US and china would make holding a line in Asia more difficult overall.  Sure you probably don’t have to build the IC for china (I presume one will be there at the beginning of the game), but it also sounds like  spending would be limited to chinese income, so unless china is WELL positioned to hold off japan for several turns, or has radically different IPC structure than in revised the US will not be able to dump cash into the chinese IC to force the issue against japan. The IC will not be able to put up as much fight as a US IC might have (figs, tanks, etc).  Then once china falls, Japan presumably gets a nice shiny factory on the backdoor to moscow.

    Obviously without knowing the initial setup(s), this is all based on likely incorrect assumptions.



  • Think AAP

    China has no income, no build. just a certain # of infantry per # of territories it holds.

    Makes China both stronger (cheap inf) and weaker (cant buy tanks)


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Think AAP

    China has no income, no build. just a certain # of infantry per # of territories it holds.

    Makes China both stronger (cheap inf) and weaker (cant buy tanks)

    Yes i think thats how its gonna be, except with fewer territories



  • Will there be IC’s for the INF to start from?  Or would they be more like a militia unit sprouting up any where?

    LT



  • From the pictures at GenCom, the answer is no, LT04. They magically appear.


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    yes they appear one per controlled Chinese territory. The fighter is most likely not replaceable if lost however unless the allies fly one over because they cant build one in china. I always thought it was a bogus idea to allow ‘American’ factories in Chinese territories. Totally ahistorical.


  • Official Answers

    Any number of new Chinese infantry can be placed in any Chinese territory.  However, they can’t be placed in territories that already contain three or more Chinese units.


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Any number of new Chinese infantry can be placed in any Chinese territory.  However, they can’t be placed in territories that already contain three or more Chinese units.

    What? But as far as potential builds they are limited to one new infantry BUILD per territory under control. I guess your talking about placement only?

    Or ill just take 20 infantry please and fill out each Chinese territory to maximum each turn.


  • Official Answers

    Right, I was talking about placement.  As far as builds, they get one infantry for every two territories they control.


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    one infantry for every two territories they control.

    oh snap! thats different from AAP



  • Based on the following picture from Board Game Geek:

    http://boardgamegeek.com/image/362530?size=original

    There is no Industrial Center in China in the starting set up.  The US would need to build one there on its turn.  Upon further examination of the picture, it should be possible for the US to stage bombers to China in one movement turn from the Hawaiian Islands.  The alternate route for aerial movement would be through Russia, unless there is a specific rule prohibiting that.

    Edit:  It appears that there is a rule keeping US aircraft from overflying Russia to reach China. I suspected that there would be as that would correspond with historical Russian actions.  Also, apparently, the US may not build an Industrial Center in China.


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    The rules say you cant bring in allied junk into China. So you cant do that.

    The allies can land in Soviet Union but the Soviets are denied their bonus if this occurs.

    So no non-Chinese units cannot fly over or into china.


  • Official Answers

    @Imperious:

    The rules say you cant bring in allied junk into China. So you cant do that.

    @Imperious:

    So no non-Chinese units cannot fly over or into china.

    Not true.  Chinese and US units may not attack together, but there’s nothing preventing Allied units in China.



  • There is not one fig in China? Is chinese or USA?. If it’s USA’s and cannot mix in attack with Kuomingtan forces, is a big handicap for China, because they cannot trade territories and only attack at 1s 😮

    I think China should have at least 1 fig from begining or at least should be allowed buy 1, say, for each 5 territories or such. Or Japaneses can have a party day at China.

    What about if Japan conquers, say, Yunnan and UK want attack from Burma? UK cannot free an allied territory? It would be ridiculous…

    It was so difficult making China a normal country (even as minor) with her IC and giving them 6 to 9 ipcs?  😛

    Better if we wait until we know the rules  🙂


  • Official Answers

    The fighter that starts in China is considered to be Chinese for movement and attack purposes.  Once it’s gone, it can’t be replaced.



  • I can’t imagine that Allied units cannot go into China, or that the US and China can’t attack together.

    What if China liberates Hong Kong? Does that territory go back to UK and it’s income? Or does that go to China and just count as 1 more territory? It looked like all Chinese territories count as 1 ipc(7). So if they take Hong Kong (worth 2?) do they just get 1 extra infantry?

    I would kill for a copy of the rule book.



  • If Allied units can’t go into China the Chinese need to be a diffrent color then the US.  How would you be able to tell them apart?  Unless Chinese units can’t leave China.

    Either way that would be distracting as the US player IMO.

    LT



  • @Krieghund:

    The fighter that starts in China is considered to be Chinese for movement and attack purposes.  Once it’s gone, it can’t be replaced.

    That is good, but the deployment of 1942 scenario (as seen in the pictures we have), shows chinese fighter in the frontier with japanese conquests. Japan goes before China, so I imagine Japanese 1st attack will be against that fighter.

    At least USA’s airfleet should be able of attack with chineses. Lend Lease also went for China (and is implemented in AA Pacific) by Burma Road.



  • @LT04:

    If Allied units can’t go into China the Chinese need to be a diffrent color then the US.  How would you be able to tell them apart?  Unless Chinese units can’t leave China.

    Either way that would be distracting as the US player IMO.

    LT

    I think Chinese units are a different model from USA’s units. Anyway, you can just put a Chinese counter under chinese units and it should work.

    I’m still surprised China didn’t became a independent playable power in AE. It dereved more than Italy…


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Chinese and US units may not attack together, but there’s nothing preventing Allied units in China.

    somebody at the con mentioned they are not allowed in Chinese territories. Ill find that post.



  • @Funcioneta:

    @LT04:

    If Allied units can’t go into China the Chinese need to be a diffrent color then the US.  How would you be able to tell them apart?  Unless Chinese units can’t leave China.

    Either way that would be distracting as the US player IMO.

    LT

    I think Chinese units are a different model from USA’s units. Anyway, you can just put a Chinese counter under chinese units and it should work.

    I’m still surprised China didn’t became a independent playable power in AE. It dereved more than Italy…

    China has 7 territories. Thats 7 IPC.

    China gets 1 INf for every 2 territories. That 9 IPC worth of units. China is benefitting heavily by this system.

    And if you gave China 20 IPC (so it could buy tanks, artillery, bombers, tech, and fighters) you would be destroying game balance.

    China did not deserve better than Italy.


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