First Turn Russian Income?



  • Russia’s starting income is 15, and the USA’s is 20.  When rolling the 2D12 at the end of their turn, do they collect that the same turn?  For example, If Rolls 6 and 7, does it collect 15 the first turn or 28?



  • @CraigBee:

    Russia’s starting income is 15, and the USA’s is 20.  When rolling the 2D12 at the end of their turn, do they collect that the same turn?  For example, If Rolls 6 and 7, does it collect 15 the first turn or 28?

    The starting income is used to buy units for those powers at the beginning of their first turn. It isn’t added towards their production to declare war. The only thing that counts towards the going to war production are the dice, and any of the the events listed (US).

    You need to keep a separate account for any territory gains, or IPCs saved from round to round for unit purchases.

    Example:
    Russia starts the game with 15 IPCs and spends only 12 IPC on the first turn (saving 3 IPCs).
    During Russia’s turn they invade E Poland (2 IPCs), and Baltic States (1 IPC).
    At the end of Russia’s first turn they roll the 2 12d dice. Getting a 7 & 6 (13 total).

    Their Go To War Production is 13 (dice only) looking for 48 to declare war

    Their income to spend on the next turn would be
    13 IPC War Production (accumulative each turn you roll dice)
    3 IPC (from E Poland & Baltic States
    3 IPC saved
    19 IPC’s total to spend next turn

    This is how we play it anyway.

    Edit: According to Tigerman77 (one of the creators) their is a loophole for Russia to go to war the beginning of their turn 5 if they are rolling crappy low numbers. As of now all they need to do is be at war w/Japan (they can even be the aggressor), and they can go to war with Germany on Russian turn 5 (if Germany is dragging their feet).

    BTW regarding the US Going To War Production (80) you would immediately add any of the events to the US War Production when they happen. Say the US War Production was at 70 at the end of the US turn 4 (after the dice roll), then on Germany’s turn they attack Russia (an event for +10 to US War Production). Now when the US turn comes up they will be at 80, and be able to declare war at the beginning of their turn.


  • Sponsor 2017 TripleA '11 '10

    Great example Wild Bill! Correct on everything there.



  • Variable, clarifications about income levels, going to war production levels, and events that happen when its not your turn.

    Quoted from my above post (you gave it a thumbs up):

    BTW regarding the US Going To War Production (80) you would immediately add any of the events to the US War Production when they happen. Say the US War Production was at 70 at the end of the US turn 4 (after the dice roll), then on Germany’s turn they attack Russia (an event for +10 to US War Production). Now when the US turn comes up they will be at 80, and be able to declare war at the beginning of their turn.

    I know in the above example the US can go to war (80 war production). Does the US also have 80 IPCs to spend at the beginning of their turn (their new war production figure), or do they still only have 70 IPCs to spend even though they are fully at war (what they had in the collect income of their last turn).

    I ask because similar questions came up w/US, and started a debate  :roll:

    Couple more examples:

    1. End of US 2 they had 15 war production (also was their spending income for the next turn). Japan attacked the FEC (+25 for US war production). So at the start of the US3 they now have 40 in war production (due to event on Japans turn). Does this also raise their spending income to 40 IPCs, or do they still only have 15 IPCs to spend on US3?

    2. US starting income is 20 IPCs. G1 Germany attacks France (+5 for the US war production). So does US add 5 IPCs to its starting IPCs and now can spend 25 IPCs US1?

    3. If Germany captures Eastern Poland G1, Russia can go to war. Do they get to spend 48 IPCs (+/-) R1, or only their starting income of15 IPCs.


  • '14

    @WILD:

    Variable, clarifications about income levels, going to war production levels, and events that happen when its not your turn.

    Quoted from my above post (you gave it a thumbs up):

    BTW regarding the US Going To War Production (80) you would immediately add any of the events to the US War Production when they happen. Say the US War Production was at 70 at the end of the US turn 4 (after the dice roll), then on Germany’s turn they attack Russia (an event for +10 to US War Production). Now when the US turn comes up they will be at 80, and be able to declare war at the beginning of their turn.

    I know in the above example the US can go to war (80 war production). Does the US also have 80 IPCs to spend at the beginning of their turn (their new war production figure), or do they still only have 70 IPCs to spend even though they are fully at war (what they had in the collect income of their last turn).

    I ask because similar questions came up w/US, and started a debate  :roll:

    if the US has 15 IPCs at the end of turn 2 and Japan attacks DEI to give their war buildup income to 40, the US only spends the IPCs they have at the end of turn 2 on turn 3. After US3 they would collect 40 plus any other IPCs due them.

    Couple more examples:

    1. End of US 2 they had 15 war production (also was their spending income for the next turn). Japan attacked the FEC (+25 for US war production). So at the start of the US3 they now have 40 in war production (due to event on Japans turn). Does this also raise their spending income to 40 IPCs, or do they still only have 15 IPCs to spend on US3?

    2. US starting income is 20 IPCs. G1 Germany attacks France (+5 for the US war production). So does US add 5 IPCs to its starting IPCs and now can spend 25 IPCs US1?

    3. If Germany captures Eastern Poland G1, Russia can go to war. Do they get to spend 48 IPCs (+/-) R1, or only their starting income of15 IPCs.



  • Ok so the US war production would ratchet up immediately (on Japans turn basically) after an event like attack on the FEC (+25) and could allow the US to declare war at the beginning of their turn if climbed to 80. Their spending income doesn’t increase (25 IPCS) for the event amount until the US collect income phase though (to spend next turn).


  • Sponsor 2017 TripleA '11 '10

    @WILD:

    Ok so the US war production would ratchet up immediately (on Japans turn basically) after an event like attack on the FEC (+25) and could allow the US to declare war at the beginning of their turn if climbed to 80. Their spending income doesn’t increase (25 IPCS) for the event amount until the US collect income phase though (to spend next turn).

    Correct.


  • 2020 2019 2018 '16 '15 '11 '10

    I have a question regarding the U.S. war income as well. It states that the U.S. gains +10 if Germany/Japan/Italy attacks Russia. Does this mean a boost when one attacks and that’s it, or does it mean that its conceivable that the U.S. could gain +30 if all three decide to attack the U.S.S.R.?


  • 2020 2019 2018 '16 '15 '11 '10

    Another question regarding East Poland.

    It states that if Germany occupies East Poland that Russia can declare war. What if Germany attacks the territory but does not take it? For example, it decides to strafe and weaken it in the event the Commonwealth lands units in the territory.


  • Sponsor 2017 TripleA '11 '10

    @koba:

    I have a question regarding the U.S. war income as well. It states that the U.S. gains +10 if Germany/Japan/Italy attacks Russia. Does this mean a boost when one attacks and that’s it, or does it mean that its conceivable that the U.S. could gain +30 if all three decide to attack the U.S.S.R.?

    First time an Axis power attacks Russia only. So max +10 from this, not +30.


  • Sponsor 2017 TripleA '11 '10

    @koba:

    Another question regarding East Poland.

    It states that if Germany occupies East Poland that Russia can declare war. What if Germany attacks the territory but does not take it? For example, it decides to strafe and weaken it in the event the Commonwealth lands units in the territory.

    Occupation is required for the Russian DOW. The idea here is that Russia wants to control East Poland for the income. If Germany helps this the Russians would probably appreciate it!


  • 2020 2019 2018 '16 '15 '11 '10

    No doubt the Russians would like it.

    My understanding is that Poland and the UK are allies, so is it possible that the UK could land planes into East Poland (or infantry) to shore it up and create a headache for the Germans and/or a buffer for the Russians? I understand thar Poland cannot attack unless Germany fails to take Warsaw but it would still be useful as a Commonwealth base on the mainland, especially if Greece and Yugoslavia are activated by the English at the same time.



  • Hey Koba, this is a strategy question to you because of your above post about UK activating Greece/Yugo UK1. I know it really doesn’t fit in this thread, but here goes.

    In past games I have ran the UK Med fleet through the Suez to preserve it, which also means evacuating Egypt (which doesn’t feel right). The Germans destroy the entire Royal Atlantic Fleet G1 w/2nd impulse, and loosing the Med fleet to the Italians would add insult to injury. Evacuating the Med creates a very powerful Italy though, and again it doesn’t sit right w/me.

    Now that the Greek fleet got a boost (coastal bb) I was thinking about activating them (and Yugo), and merging the UK Med fleet w/Greek fleet in sz 42. I believe because the Italians are neutral I can NCM (eventual sacrifice) my transport to sz40 (w/Italian ships) to activate both Greece and Yugo at the same time absorbing their ground and sea units (maybe even do it w/Free French if transport survives from sz 37?). I also just noticed that because the Italians are neutral the UK (or possibly the Free French from sz 37, if allowed to move through the Italian fleet) could place a dd in sz 41 to block the Italian sz39 fleet from participating in attacking sz 42 off Greece if they want to? (not sure if these powers can have surface ships in the same sz before a DOW by Italy, but I think so). I think this would create a problem for Italy deciding which to attack, land or sea (don’t think they could do both). The Italians could still hit the combined allied fleet, but w/o the sz39 ships it would weaken them or maybe even get mutual destruction (helps allies later?). If they don’t attack the ground forces those units could possibly combine next turn, which is also a thorn in the axis side (the RAF can fly into Yugo from London on UK2 for def if it looks good, then into N Africa?). Tying up the axis for a little while gives Russia some breathing room and maybe fewer units heading her way. Even if the Italians went for the ground units first, I think it leaves the UK in a better position, and they gain a couple dd’s to use for blockers if nothing else.

    Anyway Koba, just wondered if you have activated Greece, and had an after action report for a more aggressive UK in the Balkan Peninsula.

    Clarification for Variable :
    Germany took Paris G1. This means that Italy joins the axis the beginning of It1 and would automatically be at war.

    1. Italy doesn’t have the option of not going to war with Euro allies (UK & France) It1 if Paris falls right? If Paris falls, or Russia is attacked G1 the Italians join the axis It1 which means a DOW w/UK (and France) is assumed at the beginning of Italy’s turn.

    2. Being that on UK1 Italy is still neutral, UK (and French) ships can pass through Italian occupied sz’s, and even share them if they choose to right. In other words a sz occupied w/neutral Italian ships doesn’t make it hostel, and may be passed through, or shared w/ships from the the allies.

    2a) So in my above example the UK could slide a transport into sz40 w/the Italian navy to activate Greece and Yugo at the same time.

    2b) On UK1, the English (or Free French) could NCM a dd to sz 41 w/neutral Italian ships, and on the Italians first turn they must join the axis by rule (Paris fell) and because they are at war now (w/UK & France), the allied dd in sz 41 would block the Italian fleet in sz39 from attacking the allies ships in sz42 right.


  • Sponsor 2017 TripleA '11 '10

    @koba:

    No doubt the Russians would like it.

    My understanding is that Poland and the UK are allies, so is it possible that the UK could land planes into East Poland (or infantry) to shore it up and create a headache for the Germans and/or a buffer for the Russians? I understand thar Poland cannot attack unless Germany fails to take Warsaw but it would still be useful as a Commonwealth base on the mainland, especially if Greece and Yugoslavia are activated by the English at the same time.

    Yes, UK units may move into East Poland. Remember though, Russia is allowed to attack Poland from the beginning as well. So, we are assuming that Germany and Russia have both ignored East Poland. If Russia captures East Poland before UK1, UK units are not permitted since Russia would still be considered a neutral country (unless something else has caused them to be at war).


  • Sponsor 2017 TripleA '11 '10

    @WILD:

    Clarification for Variable :
    Germany took Paris G1. This means that Italy joins the axis the beginning of It1 and would automatically be at war.

    1. Italy doesn’t have the option of not going to war with Euro allies (UK & France) It1 if Paris falls right? If Paris falls, or Russia is attacked G1 the Italians join the axis It1 which means a DOW w/UK (and France) is assumed at the beginning of Italy’s turn.

    2. Being that on UK1 Italy is still neutral, UK (and French) ships can pass through Italian occupied sz’s, and even share them if they choose to right. In other words a sz occupied w/neutral Italian ships doesn’t make it hostel, and may be passed through, or shared w/ships from the the allies.

    2a) So in my above example the UK could slide a transport into sz40 w/the Italian navy to activate Greece and Yugo at the same time.

    2b) On UK1, the English (or Free French) could NCM a dd to sz 41 w/neutral Italian ships, and on the Italians first turn they must join the axis by rule (Paris fell) and because they are at war now (w/UK & France), the allied dd in sz 41 would block the Italian fleet in sz39 from attacking the allies ships in sz42 right.

    This all seems correct to me. Nice strat!


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