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France in the Turn Order


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    Situation:

    Player A has routinely done France with the rest of the allies, as at this point in the game, France has not had an opportunity to be effectual in the overall game.  Most moves have included moving the French infantry in Africa about, perhaps moving the Destroyer around the Indian Ocean, etc.  The French player makes a note on each turn that the French Non-Combat Moves have been completed just so that the Axis player can go directly into Germany without having to wait a full day or more to find out France does nothing of consequence.

    Player B takes advantage of this situation.  They use a single destroyer to block an attack on the Italian Battleship.  The destroyer is in range of a French unit that can attack it (Fighter/Destroyer you know, a unit that is normally around for a while on the board).

    Player A sees this and attacks the destroyer with the French unit sinking it.  Player B complains this is unfair as they thought France could no longer perform any combat movements.

    Which solution do you think is most fair?  Keep in mind, you have to think of this from BOTH perspectives!  This is in regards to online play, so let us forget any case in which you are playing face to face.  In a face to face game, waiting for France to declare their moves takes roughly 28 seconds, so we can just assume this situation should never occur in a face to face game.  Online play is different in so much as it can be days or weeks waiting for your opponent to post a round.  Hence how this situation comes into existance.


  • Customizer

    I have never played the online version before so I am not totally familiar with it.  However, I would assume the game is basically still the same with each player having the option of combat move, combat, non-combat move, etc.
    That being said, the France player should still have the option to make combat moves and engage in combat if they still have units remaining.  While they may not have much to move around and usually just marks his NCM as “done” to speed the action of the game up some, the Axis player has no right to simply expect that the France player will do this EVERY time.  It is up to each player, Axis or Allied, to check out the board and see where his allies and enemy’s units are and to be aware of any openings that may occur.  You can’t just ignore an enemy ship then cry foul if it attacks you.



  • The Axis player shouldn’t have assumed the French couldn’t make combat movements.  However, I don’t see anything wrong with letting them redo that move (within reason) because of the mistake.



  • My advice is - don’t skip France’s turn.  You messed up by not treating them like you would any other nation.  Germany’s round doesnt start until France has finished, so obviously Germany’s initial combat moves are nullified and must be redone - and Germany may begin their turn how they see fit.



  • Because there are only about 4 units on the board that we are talking about, how come you cannot enter the French moves while waiting for the Italian ones?  There not really dependent on the Italians unless you try and move that ftr to AFrica. I would send out the french moves after doing ANZAC and send the dd towards Japan so it doesn’t matter.



  • Simple: OOB has not that problem. Or suffer the biggest cost of playing alpha2 and wait until France is done  😐


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    @Funcioneta:

    Simple: OOB has not that problem. Or suffer the biggest cost of playing alpha2 and wait until France is done  😐

    Correct, since America, China and France move in succession, this would never happen out of the box.  If you would like to convince Larry to restore the turn order in Alpha 3, be my guest.  I think it may require liberal applications of Jacksons to accomplish, however. ^_~



  • I think france should go before germany therefore be givin a stand



  • @450thMSAF:

    I think france should go before germany therefore be givin a stand

    The point is that France doesn’t have a chance.  They’re not supposed to.


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    @Ruanek:

    @450thMSAF:

    I think france should go before germany therefore be givin a stand

    The point is that France doesn’t have a chance.  They’re not supposed to.

    What are you saying exactly?  France shouldn’t have a chance at what?  Attacking Italy even after Germany has gone and “skipped” them?  Or they shouldn’t have a chance because Italy should play as if France was moving right after them and before Germany?



  • @Cmdr:

    @Ruanek:

    @450thMSAF:

    I think france should go before germany therefore be givin a stand

    The point is that France doesn’t have a chance.  They’re not supposed to.

    What are you saying exactly?  France shouldn’t have a chance at what?  Attacking Italy even after Germany has gone and “skipped” them?  Or they shouldn’t have a chance because Italy should play as if France was moving right after them and before Germany?

    The post I was responding to said that France should go before Germany in the turn order to give them a better chance at surviving.  It didn’t relate to the OP.

    I already gave my opinion on the OP in a previous post.:)



  • @Ruanek:

    @Cmdr:

    @Ruanek:

    @450thMSAF:

    I think france should go before germany therefore be givin a stand

    The point is that France doesn’t have a chance.  They’re not supposed to.

    What are you saying exactly?  France shouldn’t have a chance at what?  Attacking Italy even after Germany has gone and “skipped” them?  Or they shouldn’t have a chance because Italy should play as if France was moving right after them and before Germany?

    The post I was responding to said that France should go before Germany in the turn order to give them a better chance at surviving.  It didn’t relate to the OP.

    I already gave my opinion on the OP in a previous post.:)

    If France is going to have a chance to survive, you’ll need to rebalance the entire game and buff up Germany/Italy quite a lot.



  • Option 1 is definitely wrong, no matter what.

    If it was clearly an honest mistake, I would go with Option 3, simply because it’s imperative to foster a sense of sportsmanship with this game, as complex as it is, and given that minor mistakes can be catastrophic either way. I’ve had games in which I’ve gone so far as to allow re-rolls simply because of atrocious luck, and when such gestures are appreciated it makes it all the more enjoyable.

    However, the post is worded that Player B ‘takes advantage’ of the situation. If this is indeed the case, Option 2 without a doubt. Part of fostering sportsmanship is punishing those who show none. The Allied player is doing the Axis player a service by doing French moves early–for the Axis player to take advantage is pretty weak (then again, they are the Axis  😉)

    Of course, the difference between an honest mistake and an attempt to pull a fast one is entirely subjective.



  • i mean so they can build some troops and be givin a chance


  • 2018 2017 2015

    Could put it down as " Fog Of War", how easy it is for us when the board is in front of us, we can survey the whole world.


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    @dangermouse650:

    Could put it down as " Fog Of War", how easy it is for us when the board is in front of us, we can survey the whole world.

    Fog of war may apply if France had taken it’s turn when it was supposed too and just missed the event.  That is not the case.  France offered to hold their action so that Germany could go immediately, thus allowing Italy and Germany to coordinate more fluidly, instead of interrupting to state they were doing nothing and causing a multiple day delay between Italy and Germany.

    Here are the positions:

    In SZ 96 there is a British Fighter, British Tactical Bomber, British Carrier, British Battleship, 3 British Cruisers, British Destroyer and British Transport.
    Tobruk contains 3 British Infantry, 2 British Artillery, 1 British Mechanized Infantry, 1 British Armor
    In Algeria there is 3 British Fighters and a French Fighter
    In SZ 98 there are 3 Italian Transports, Italian Destroyer and Italian Battleship
    In SZ 80 there is a French Destroyer, and British Cruiser and British Battleship

    Here are the moves in question:

    Italian Destroyer from SZ 98 to SZ 76
    Italian Battleship, 3 Italian Transports from SZ 98 to SZ 81

    The French response was to attack the Destroyer in SZ 76 with the Destroyer in SZ 80. The result of the attack was a loss of both ships (attacker hit and defender hit) leaving a path of attack for the British warships in SZ 80 to assist the British aircraft in SZ 96 in sinking the Italian Battleship in SZ 81.



  • France offered to hold their action so that Germany could go immediately, thus allowing Italy and Germany to coordinate more fluidly, instead of interrupting to state they were doing nothing and causing a multiple day delay between Italy and Germany.

    If the players agreed to the change in order, the agreement should stand.  Why should the Axis assume France would not make the attack if the order has been changed.  Have the online moves been being submitted as if France was going in it’s original order?



  • i agree with sid visous


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    @Sid:

    France offered to hold their action so that Germany could go immediately, thus allowing Italy and Germany to coordinate more fluidly, instead of interrupting to state they were doing nothing and causing a multiple day delay between Italy and Germany.

    If the players agreed to the change in order, the agreement should stand.  Why should the Axis assume France would not make the attack if the order has been changed.  Have the online moves been being submitted as if France was going in it’s original order?

    It was not an agreement that the turn order was different.  That would have constituted a house rule and why would France give up the right to screw up the Axis plan forevermore in perpetuity?  No, it was a contingent offer that if Italy did nothing to instigate an attack by France, then Germany could be allowed to move so as not to slow down the game.


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