Viability of SBR rules



  • Very interested to see how this turns out.



  • Strategic bombing is a necessary tactic for the allies.  The US has to build Bombers as well as the UK.  Make the Germans pay.  They can’t protect the complexes and use the fighters in the East at the same time.  Something will have to give.  This is something that pay off in the long run.  It’s not as noticeable on one turn but over the course of the game.



  • @docfav7:

    Strategic bombing is a necessary tactic for the allies.  The US has to build Bombers as well as the UK.  Make the Germans pay.  They can’t protect the complexes and use the fighters in the East at the same time.  Something will have to give.  This is something that pay off in the long run.  It’s not as noticeable on one turn but over the course of the game.

    There is no point in repairing Complexes your not using, if I’m Germany I don’t think I would spent money to keep the French factories undamaged. My German strategies depend on holding London anyway so I’m not usually worried about bombing raids coming from the UK or the US.


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    @docfav7:

    Strategic bombing is a necessary tactic for the allies.  The US has to build Bombers as well as the UK.

    It is not necessary, but it is viable.  Likewise, in exchange for not doing Sea Lion, Germany can bomb London flat forcing England to build in S. Africa and Canada instead, or waste money repairing.  Another viable tactic. (Later you can shift to Muskva to put nails in the Russian coffin.)

    However, SBR is not “necessary” in any game.  Infantry are “necessary” but no other unit in the game, that you do not already start with, is “necessary” to win.



  • Depending on how the game goes in the pacific, Japan bombing India can keep them from building anything for long periods of time.  I’ve always felt that bombing London as the Germans could work, but every time I’ve seen it attempted the dice said no….


  • Sponsor 2017 TripleA '11 '10

    But with the current rules (Alpha 2), the potential IPC loss in bombers and fighters is so high that it doesn’t seem worth it.


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    @Variable:

    But with the current rules (Alpha 2), the potential IPC loss in bombers and fighters is so high that it doesn’t seem worth it.

    Strategic Bomber:  Average Damage: 3.8 IPC
    Strategic Bomber:  Average Loss: 2 IPC

    Seems in the attacker’s best interest to me.



  • Cmdr jennifer whered you pull 2 and 3.8 from ?


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    Low Luck rules.


  • Sponsor 2017 TripleA '11 '10

    Are those values based on being intercepted?


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    No, those values are only for strategic bombers vs an industrial complex which is always protected by an anti-aircraft gun by alpha 2 rules, and I think OOB, but it’s been a long time since I looked at the OOB rules.



  • If your useing low luck then it’s Evan better because the AA will never hit, at least to my under standing.



  • No low luck will sometimes hit, if you only use 1 bomber.  If you send over 6 bombers low luck will kill 1 every time as i understand it.

    the 2 average loss is simple, 6 bomber runs should lose you 1 bomber so 12/6 = 2 average loss.

    average damage is a little more difficult. a bomber deals 1d6 + 2 damage. now if you make 6 bombing runs your average roll should be 3.5+2 = 5.5. now if your shot down on the 6th try you get 5.5 x 5 = 27.5 damage.  Dived by the number of bombing runs and you get 27.5/6 = 4.58.

    Now if you look at low luck, you can run 6 bombers at 1 time, and you max out at 20 points of damage so your wasting some damage (and auto lose 1 bomber). That gives you 20 points of damage divided by 6 bombers = 20/6 = 3.333

    However if you run 1 bomber per turn over for 6 turns, you may not get shot down at all or you may get shot down on the 1st or 2nd try.

    Edit:

    This is all without taking into account fighters, if you have 1 interceptor and 1 escort then things change more in favor of the defender because the interceptor hits on a 2 and the escort hits on a 1.

    Over a 6 turn period you will kill 1 interceptor and probably lose 2 bombers (actually loss = 1 and 4/6th) to the interceptors. That means AA will only get to fire at 4 bombers so we can say it misses (4/6th).


  • Sponsor 2017 TripleA '11 '10

    @edfactor:

    Edit:

    This is all without taking into account fighters, if you have 1 interceptor and 1 escort then things change more in favor of the defender because the interceptor hits on a 2 and the escort hits on a 1.

    This was my question / concern. With the intercepter rules in G40 now, SBR is too expensive for the attacker/bomber.



  • @Cmdr:

    No, those values are only for strategic bombers vs an industrial complex which is always protected by an anti-aircraft gun by alpha 2 rules, and I think OOB, but it’s been a long time since I looked at the OOB rules.

    Facilities have own AA in OOB as well.



  • It really doenst change that much, your going to kill as many fighters as you lose bombers (over time) so your not losing much (10 vs 12 IPC). And many times the whole point of SBR is to trade off your bombers for their IPC so your still achieving the same end results.


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    @edfactor:

    It really doenst change that much, your going to kill as many fighters as you lose bombers (over time) so your not losing much (10 vs 12 IPC). And many times the whole point of SBR is to trade off your bombers for their IPC so your still achieving the same end results.

    Gotta agree, in part.  If he’s defending iwth his own fighters, you are potentially gaining the kill of a 10 IPC fighter in leiu of doing 3.8 damage with your bomber, that’s a win.

    However, if he is defending with an Ally’s fighter, it might change the game significantly.

    Example:  England has 4 fighters in Russia.  Russia cannot get the NO, of course, but now German SBR runs on Moscow are not damaging Russia, they are damaging England who, perhaps, can take it better.



  • The rules make it a challenge, but like anything else, it has it’s time and place in the game. Wait for your opponent to leave a factory undefended with aircraft, or to slow down their economy when they need it most. IMO, Germany should have 2-3 bombers by G6 or G7 and should use them to make Russia spend precious dollars to repair ICs, while simultaneously combining with original Luftwaffe/methodical small naval purchases to keep the Allied fleets at bay.

    But… losing a bomber sucks.  :oops:


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