I believe for phase 1 we should just work on fixing flak and subs. All other combat will definitely fix the game but will require a lengthy set of rules and might put many people off. We should hold off on improving fighter dogfights/escorts/interceptors/realistic naval combat until phase 2.
Method 1 for resolving sub combat (and for resloving flak problem):
Targeting/Detecting: In order for subs to be hit and air units to be hit by flak, they must first be targeted.
Detecting Subs: The opponent rolls 1 die for every fighter and surface naval unit (except destroyers) that are in the same SZ as an enemy sub at the end of a combat move phase. For every roll of a 1 or 2, a sub has seen successfully targeted/detected. Destroyers do not have to roll to target an enemy sub since every destroyer detects 1 enemy sub automatically. Combat then continues as usual, with only detected subs able to be hit.
Include the following new rules with method 1:
-Before combat with subs, the opponent rolls to detect opposing subs. Move all detected subs to the battle board along with all the other units. Hidden subs remain on the game board. Hidden subs may still fire on opposing units like detected subs, but they remain on the game baord to designate that they cannot be hit by opposing units.
-Before actual combat, the player owning the subs may then choose to either submerge or fire at the opponent, but not both. The player may submerge any number of the detected subs on the battle board or any number of the hidden subs still on the game board. If the player chooses to submerge any subs, that player tips those subs on their side to destinguish them from the firing subs. Submerged subs don't get to fire, but if they survive the combat round they get to escape further combat. Subs that fire on opposing ships do not get to submerge at the end of the combat round.
-After the first combat round, all remaining subs (those that didn't submerge in the first round and survived) are automatically detected for the rest of the battle (subs can only be hidden during the first round).Â
Example: Attacker sends 1 DD, 1 BB, 1 CV and 2 FTRs to attack 3 subs in a SZ. The attacker rolls 4 targeting dice (1 for the BB+1 more for the CV+2 more for each FTR). Only 1 of the 4 dice is either a 1 or a 2 (roll all 4 dice at the same time since it doesn't mater which of the 4 units detects the sub). The attacker adds 1 more detected sub due to the DD. The total number of detected subs is therefore 2\. Combat continues as normal, except only 2 or the 3 subs may be taken as casualties. The 2 detected subs and 1 hidden sub can each choose to either fire back or submerge but not both (decided before combat but after targeting rolls).
Targeting air units: Anytime any number of enemy air units fly over a hostile territory with an AA gun, the AA gun rolls 1 targeting die for each enemy air unit. For every roll of a 1 or 2, 1 enemy air unit has been successfully targeted. For every targeted air unit, roll 1 die to see if the air unit has been hit (e.g. so if no air units are targeted, then no dice will be rolled the second time). AA guns still only hit on a 1\. Repeat this process for enemy air units flying back home over hostile territories during the non-combat move phase. If an enemy air unit is attacking a territory with an AA gun and doesn't take the territory (a typical case of this would be during a strategic bombing run), then the AA gun will roll to target (and if successful then roll to hit) the air unit both before the combat and on the return trip home during the non-combat move phase.
Odds an air unit will be shot down = (1/3 chance of being targeted) * (1/6 chance being shot down) = 1/18
1/18 chance shot down before combat + 1/18 chance being shot down in non-combat move phase on the way back to the UK = 1/9 chance (this is darn close to the 1/10 chance we wanted)
I love this format and i fully understand the thinking behind it:
a few points:
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the act of firing in combat and non-combat sequence makes the odds of hitting more than one plane is greater than 10%.This is because each plane that flys during the turn has a 10% change of going down, so say if you get 5 planes moving each turn the odds are 50% of at least one plane getting hit. The 10% is a figure that covers the entire war and the ability of Flak batteries to hit planes. Somehow each turn we need a 10% chance so perhaps the anti aircraft fires only once?
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the action of anti-aircraft hits in non-combat should be left out to save time and dice rolling. The idea being that the flak rolls are represented as the TOTAL effect of flak artillery on any given turn. So we are duplicating the action somewhat and also go against OOB/LHTR. I think its just adds nothing that could not have allready been represented in combat flak rolls.
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The naval interaction is original and accurate. I prefer this method over #2. Lets keep it!
I still want subs to have the opportunity to evade (as you proposed under method 3)
Also sub interaction should be a seperate process. So subs can interact in the following 3 ways:
- to perform a “economic attack” on a SZ thats adjacent to a factory. The subs engage the naval ships and if they survive, then they get to roll say one d6 and “cost” that player 1-2 IPC.
1-2=one ipc lost
3-4=two ipc lost
5-6=three ipc lost
- Combat vs naval ships
a) as the attacker trying to sink suface ships
b) as the defender under a ASW attack.
under no means can the following occur:
- subs taking off hits from other subs
- subs taking hits and involved in interaction in naval combat or taken as loses from surface naval combat ( no fodder)
also, we have to explain how destroyers can “protect” ships from attacks. Under your system it is not clear how loses are chosen. The subs should be able to “target” the ship they wish to hit, however the presence of a destroyer can “screen” out this target.
another point is we need is a cruiser unit which has special anti-aircraft atributes under aerial attacks. So as you buy destroyers to protect the fleet from subs, you also need cruisers to protect the fleet from planes.
also we need the planes to be able to “target” ships in the same fashion as subs target ships. Something that you made with subs needs to be addressed with areial attacks on surface ships. A cruiser will have a powerful roll in this.
Cruiser unit:
attack 3 defend 3 move 3, takes 2 hits gets a prelininary roll against planes if they attack ships that travel with cruiser. I am not sure what the cost should be, but i like BB price moving down to 20 IPC. thus:
BB= 4/4/2/20 ( 2 hits)
CA=3/3/3/15 (2 hits)
DD=2/2/2/10 ( one hit)
TR= 0/1/2/8
SS=2/2/2/8
Carriers should be 1/2/3/16 and take 2 hits
If we add “naval fighters” to the phase 1 project i propose we go with 2/2/4/9 for the values
the land based fighter values are for land based attacks only. So the 3/4 are the values against land targets. WE need a new set of air combat/ sea combat values. AS you have mentioned you have 6 types of combat and while land combat occurs, if both sides have air planes then they should engage each other each round seperately untill one side is retreated or destroyed. But while in the air the combat values cannot be attack at 3 defend at 4 because the entire airforce would be chewed up in a few rounds. That is why we need aerial combat values for air and sea combat.
proposal:
new aerial combat values: ( attack/defense)
Fighter: 1/2
Bomber: 0/1
against naval targets use regular values, except ships thatv are targeted get to fire first as follows:
BB=1-2
CA=1-3
DD=1
CV=1
TR= no firing back at planes
note that each ship gets to fire first at each plane so if 4 planes attack 3 DD, then 3 DD roll 4 times and get like 1 hit then only 3 planes are attacking. Also each cruiser and destroyer should be able to screen out the hit allocated by a plane on a carrier or battleship on a 1/1 basis.