G40 league tech no tokens Steveo(axis) v Axisandalliesplayer(allies+9)

[axisandalliesplayer]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.6

Game History

Round: 5

Combat Move - French
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Americans from Morocco: 1 mech_infantry
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Americans to Morocco: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode

Non Combat Move - French
            1 fighter moved from United Kingdom to Gibraltar

Turn Complete - French

[axisandalliesplayer]

I changed some of the casualties the allies suffered from the Italian attacks.

[Guest]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.6

Game History

Round: 6

Politics - Germans

Purchase Units - Germans
            Germans buy 6 armour, 2 artilleries, 1 destroyer and 3 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Germans
            1 mech_infantry moved from Germany to Baltic States
                  Germans take Baltic States from Russians
            1 infantry moved from Novgorod to Archangel
                  Germans take Archangel from Russians
            1 armour moved from Bryansk to Smolensk
                  Germans take Smolensk from Russians
            1 armour moved from Smolensk to Russia
            21 armour, 4 artilleries, 4 bombers, 3 fighters, 22 infantry, 12 mech_infantrys and 5 tactical_bombers moved from Bryansk to Russia
            3 armour moved from Ukraine to Russia
            1 bomber moved from Germany to Russia

Combat - Germans
            Battle in Russia
                Germans attack with 25 armour, 4 artilleries, 5 bombers, 3 fighters, 22 infantry, 12 mech_infantrys and 5 tactical_bombers
                British defend with 3 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers; Russians defend with 4 aaGuns, 1 airfield, 4 armour, 10 artilleries, 1 factory_major, 4 fighters, 46 infantry, 3 mech_infantrys and 1 tactical_bomber
                Germans captures 23PUs while taking Russians capital
                Germans converts factory_major into different units
                Germans win, taking Russia from Russians with 7 armour and 5 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 9
                Casualties for Germans: 18 armour, 4 artilleries, 5 bombers, 3 fighters, 22 infantry and 12 mech_infantrys
                Casualties for British: 3 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers
                Casualties for Russians: 4 aaGuns, 4 armour, 10 artilleries, 4 fighters, 46 infantry, 3 mech_infantrys and 1 tactical_bomber

Non Combat Move - Germans
            3 aaGuns moved from Bryansk to Russia
            1 aaGun and 1 infantry moved from Western Ukraine to Ukraine
            5 tactical_bombers moved from Russia to Ukraine
            5 infantry moved from Novgorod to Archangel
            4 mech_infantrys moved from Germany to Eastern Poland
            1 aaGun, 1 artillery, 3 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from Northern Italy to Western Germany
            1 carrier, 1 cruiser and 1 transport moved from 125 Sea Zone to 112 Sea Zone
            2 fighters moved from Southern Italy to 112 Sea Zone

Place Units - Germans
            3 armour placed in Ukraine
            3 armour placed in Western Germany
            1 destroyer placed in 110 Sea Zone
            2 artilleries and 1 infantry placed in France
            2 infantry placed in Western Germany

Turn Complete - Germans
            Germans collect 56 PUs; end with 79 PUs total
            Trigger Germans 5 Swedish Iron Ore: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 84 PUs
            Objective Germans 2 Control Novgorod Or Volgograd Or Russia: Germans met a national objective for an additional 10 PUs; end with 94 PUs

[axisandalliesplayer]

Yea, I’m not accepting this map at all. You think I’m not going to check the dice in this situation? Care to explain why the Moscow battle was rolled 3 times? Or why I won the 1st two and yet the 3rd one (the one where you won) was the one that was posted? I will be contacting Gamerman01 to email him the dice emails I have as proof.

Sorry, I’m taking the win and good luck trying to find opponents after this. :roll:

Actually, I’m not sorry. You’re the sorry one for resorting to cheating to win a game on the internet.

AA rolls for the three battles below, will email Gamerman01 the full emails in all the gory details as soon as I get his email.

1st Time doing the battle at 12:10: Moscow holds with 6 allied fighters left, not posted!
12:10 http://dice.tripleawarclub.org/MARTI_verify.php?date=2014-06&iv=KI%2FyrL8Lxh9M8ksN2vJLwMSyBvRxdMXAIQLCB7DyAHs%3D&enc=KE3ocL%2BrRScf1RRMFwrqpNFi5T0JmKAKF45yHElev7kIgC0hN31Sc66QoEpCNf5IkQ4TwdB90J0ScASwwpkAUTRVUaqQlgEToMArlQdyaizeusyxP0uzIp2nmJwvW9V70Fp00Ii6%2B8stWNiILXv2fgL06h4O8NV4rg2QJkzy5ui73f1KWJk7%2B%2BW0KVVBNLVmPXPAn%2FwOARqYsQkgD2vhddMMo1Qvzx4j6QDCYvW7hhYRdF1JC8ZEi5QM%2FOFWj2zYqo5wIe5Z22fizy12faiDKE9njIytDBNue5I5STNYEFrE55v7PV9A2yud%2BeY%3D

---

2nd Time doing the battle at 12:17: Moscow holds with 23 units left left, not posted!
12:17 http://dice.tripleawarclub.org/MARTI_verify.php?date=2014-06&iv=bRIYdn3%2BhC6AcZAfKjO%2BPgRNRnb3jDilZd%2BypoZ6ZPY%3D&enc=%2F6ebJB7hvbiM7BVJY2JPLZTtxgLqgV7%2Fpjs5y3Pk2ifHFzFrASQ5aoJrEWsVw1NHjQc9IJQI2cPQMmHGScS3R4K%2Beh4baVgfYd6ZFDAEFKaeYRWAd%2BwkNMETRC4Gf83Bjhz23HmesOEmR2a6s5z4wvHK%2B03eJqlNnYHkUNhEG4PPnqJRQbAg%2BeotU66RcE9YWtYMNCosbrEppg14AAU36FmtR%2FUw%2B9T1ne%2BBPdtWqkVkLj%2FLDHwcIVe%2FIyQmc2oKyVrHd6%2FmXQ0yncPrU1GB67jB9OobBz6iH%2FPT7xgJmDuoYYq0oXI%2Fogf0%2F%2Bk%3D

---

Third time doing the battle at 12:18: Moscow falls, this is the one that’s posted!
http://dice.tripleawarclub.org/MARTI_verify.php?date=2014-06&iv=tXXZBwHAfutFrWvP1U8gr93SaNe1FN2U6mJU5gnt1K0%3D&enc=%2FXr3U6RCoN9u0Po19Xc4S36nv3xFypRzu3ldz83Z7FYIzbDOZ7GYdCMXC349BSmUDCqndQCC3leYvDXDu4tREvp%2BLwhBtkRZhfLZPV8sGkTmPxt1qkFIs5fTe4XZO1JssHl5L46yt9bIKWElPHHNh0Li%2F4FvqSwgPAbixXQ6oblSyZ4Vh7VL5p%2F4F9yVctdgOHvjVvHY1ItIXQm0BIV5u9yjB02%2B0gFWd1fHHjA3T40JYisBxG%2BiwJBOFWEw%2B3cMLuibqoapE96ypPKyw%2B1o1clvdEN6XrleG3w%2FL1xQu3nKHd6%2Fq%2BduXuMkFXU%3D

I’ll give you credit, it took you 6-7 minutes before you made up your mind that that’s the route you wanted to take before you started rerolling the battle.  :roll:

[axisandalliesplayer]

Is this how you were able to put Gamer against the ropes until you overlooked the VC win he had?

[Guest]

To be honest I didn’t even know the two were live,  I wanted to re-roll several times just to see things play out before I went with it.

[axisandalliesplayer]

Right, I bet you also have some great beach front property in Nevada.  :roll:

Not interested in buying that one.
After two complete and dismal failures you decided to go ahead and attack anyway? And that last one just happened to be the ‘real’ one? The 1st one was admittedly close, but that 2nd was a complete and absolute curbstomp. 23 pieces left in Moscow with another 10 coming in from the east, plus 4 more British fighter in the ME ready to fly in, plus whatever build, and no real followup by Germany. And you liked that so much you did the attack?

A little popup tells you that it’s contacting the dice server whenever you roll in a live game vs local.

[boldfresh]

@Steveo:

To be honest I didn’t even know the two were live,  I wanted to re-roll several times just to see things play out before I went with it.

axisandalliesplayer - not defending steveo but if you are on a fast connection, the popup box is almost imperceptible - almost completely unnoticeable.

[axisandalliesplayer]

The thing is he can’t really prove he wasn’t cheating. All the data supports that cheating occurred. Why the gap between the 1st and 2nd rolls if he was just rolling it locally? Am I supposed to believe that he did 2 just run throughs that both failed miserably and would’ve meant the game to the allies if they’d been real. He takes a look at these results and says, hey I want some of that and proceeds with the attack? He had 76 pieces and 170 punch to my 77 pieces and 167 punch. This battle was basically a 50/50 all or nothing throw with an expected -60 IPC swing for the attacker.

I might have been willing to give him the benefit of the doubt if the circumstances were different. Everything about this is ringing false to me.

[boldfresh]

i understand your thought process.  i will tell you that i usually run a battle like this a few times in local before doing the actual battle - having it go poorly a time or two doesn’t dissuade me from the attack, i actually prefer it…  when it goes great in local, it almost always fails miserably in actual.  :lol:

[gamerman01]

Players are innocent until proven guilty.

Steveo’s explanation is plausible.  I can’t tell the difference whether I’m in local or live when I play.  I almost always have it open live myself, and only use local for huge moves that I can’t visualize completely.

Also, as you say it was a 50/50 battle.  To me, the results from run 1 and 2 going bad and the 3rd one going good are not damning at all.

I am checking my MARTI dice e-mails in my Steveo game for duplicates.  I have to go now, so haven’t finished, but no duplicates found yet.

I am not going to call anyone a cheater after 1 instance where there is a plausible explanation and no proof of cheating.  Have you checked the rest of your dice e-mails for the rest of the game yet, A&Aplayer?

Steveo, it is imperative that you are careful whether you are in local or live when you roll dice in the program, obviously.

I have to go now.  This post is not a final decision.  I am thinking a re-roll and a warning is called for, but I am still listening.

[axisandalliesplayer]

No other battles were involved and I did not find any other instances of multiple battles.

[axisandalliesplayer]

And he’s gone . . .

[boldfresh]

hmmm, seems steveo didn’t like being called a cheater at best and was a cheater at worst.  Another hit and run A&A player…  probably Emperor Molari in disguise.

[axisandalliesplayer]

He wasn’t very effusive in his one post defending himself. Most people would’ve been a lot more vocal if they were called out for cheating when they were in fact innocent. Shoot, most people would’ve been more vocal even if they were in fact guilty. And if he was innocent and was so upset that he rage quit not just this game but the entire A&A forum, then it really doesn’t match up with the one post he did post prior to leaving.

[gamerman01]

You might be right, and you might be wrong.  There is a chance you just chased a good, honest player off the site.  We’ll probably never know.

FWIW, and it’s not worth much, I was going to say he should keep the first live roll that was rolled.  (Not a re-roll)

You may post your win.  Steveo forfeited.

[MagicQ]

1st time battle result stands as long as you get dice verification email. Doesn’t matter he is a cheater or not. Simple as that. You have absolute right to force him to play according to the 1st result. Not necessarily call him a cheater cos you never know for sure.

[boldfresh]

@MagicQ:

1st time battle result stands as long as you get dice verification email. Doesn’t matter he is a cheater or not. Simple as that. You have absolute right to force him to play according to the 1st result. Not necessarily call him a cheater cos you never know for sure.

Perfectly stated.  No need to assume either way… first result stands is the way to go.

[arathorn]

We all need to be able to see this from axisandalliesplayer’s point of view, because I don’t think he overreacted when you look at the events.

The fact that he rerolled TWICE, keeping the last result after having been terribly defeated in the first two 50/50 battles speaks louder FOR cheating than against - now Steveo COULD be innocent, no one is questioning that there is a chance he didn’t know it was live dice he rolled - BUT, the evidence speaks against it, and axisandalliesplayer must have been extremely frustrated to have this happen, especially since he rolled the whole battle THREE TIMES, and posted the third try, when he won.

Had Steveo only rerolled once, and posted that, I agree, then axisandalliesplayer should have said “you need to keep the first dice” and not call him out as a cheater.
But the circumstances justifies axisandalliesplayer’s strong reaction, as it stinks of cheat. But we’re not crucifying Steveo - he did that himself by just deleting his account.

Steveo could have prevented ALL of this by immediately saying: I AM SO SORRY - WE WILL EDIT AND KEEP FIRST DICE! Then axisandalliesplayer could have given him the opportunity to “redeem” himself, and just watch out carefully in future dice.

That’s my opinion.

[axisandalliesplayer]

Thank you for the support Arathorn.

What everyone seems to be overlooking is that the ‘Also Post After Combat Move’ box was checked. Go ahead, download his Germany map and you’ll see it’s checked. He had to have seen that after he did the combat moves. Given the fact that there was a long delay between the 1st and 2nd battles for Moscow, he likely saw it at least twice as he probably didn’t have it saved the first time. And if it was just a runthrough to see how things looked, it’s reasonable to suppose that he completed the noncom and had a 2nd post map option show up on the side bar.

Let’s say for the sake of argument that he didn’t realize he was live the first time. He had to become aware at some point that he was live and the first result counted. Between the post map options, the in game dicey notifications, any emails he might’ve received, etc. Something had to have tipped him off that this was for real, but he posted the map as if nothing was wrong. Cheating after the fact is no different than going in with the intent to cheat.

Like Arathorn pointed out, he really did nothing to defend himself, explain himself, apologize, etc. And he was on from when he posted G6 for at least an hour or two afterwards, so he had plenty of time to say something. I also PM’d him around the same time I first posted after G6. Heck, Bold, Gamer, and Magic did a WHOLE lot more to defend Steve than he did for himself.

I used to work intel for eight years in the Army, my whole job was piecing together any and all pieces of information. And I just don’t see any reasonable explanation to account for everything I’ve mentioned in this and other posts other than he cheated either in full knowledge of what he was doing or went with it after the fact. Maybe I was too quick at first, but I don’t have any doubts as to what he did.

I’m a little touchy about cheaters because I’ve seen or experienced cheating tabletop (switching out chips under units), live online games, and forum games. (AAMC.net from years and years ago) I’d rather play against the AI than against a cheat any day of the week.