By gum, that CIA poison takes it’s time.
Capital Punishment: case of Stanley "Tookie" Williams
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See you in the “Weed-Smoking Jews of Jamaica” topic.
And I’ll see you in Alcoholic Bondage Pagans Who Play Board Games! LOL
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:evil: how do i scroll down on the Topic Summary list to view the post history in its entirety? im annoyed that i cant see it, because i want to post to things that are further back than the list goes.
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OMG just click on page one?
Pages: « 1 2 3 4
look for this on the page?
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what?
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Why are you trying to justify this? There is no way a Christian can support the death penalty without completely disregarding Jesus’ teachings.
Jesus also said he came to fulfill the law, and the law clearly states that a murderer is to be killed.
Fry the bastard.
Jesus came to transcend the old Mosaic law. And if you want to go by Mosaic Codes, should we still be stoning adulterous women? Should slaves still obey their masters?
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@Imperious:
Question for Mary…or others
Is their any point in your philosophy where if the murderer of many eventually deserves death?
I hate to use the Hitler example but hes dreadful enough for this purpose
would he be put to death under any circumstances? huh?
You can only carry this Christian thing so far, after a point its utility as a guidline for behavior requires too many unnatural changes.
we cant just keep up a stiff upper lip in the face of the pure evil allowing it in our presence.Jesus would NEVER advocate killing a person, no matter what their crime. “No sin is so great that it cannot be forgiven”. The New Testament is almost exclusively about forgiving people and non-violence.
And no, I’m not a Christian. But Jesus’s teachings were profound at the time.
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no true christian would support the death penalty. that said, no true christian would do a lot of things that many “christians” do on a regular basis. ive yet to encounter a “true” christian, in every sense of the faith. that doesnt mean they are bad, they simply have modified beliefs, which is fine. they just shouldnt profess to follow christs teachings to the letter.
But if someone considers themselves a Christian, they “should” oppose the death penalty. If they support it, they must recognize they are not following Jesus’s teachings, and should try to change their own mind.
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Who would Jesus execute?
Who would jesus have not follow him? Are you penniless and have no home depending only on God for survival?
So knock off the Jesus crap, people only use him as a refrence when it suits their argument. They should focus that energy and take the plank out of their own eye. If you don’t know what that means, I suggest you read the gospel.
if we’re quoting, let’s do the whole thing: “And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and; behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.—
How is talking about Jesus’s message of non-violence being hypocritical? Where have I advocated violence or killing people on this messageboard?
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Who would Jesus execute?
Oh, and mary. This just occured to me. “Give to Rome what is Rome’s, give to God what is God’s”.
This pretty much says that Christians shouldn’t interfere in government. So I am guessing that Jesus would not stop capital punishment, esp. since that is the way he “saved” all of us.
No, that passage has to do with taxes. If govt. wants you to do something heinous (e.g., round up jews to be liquidated), you’re supposed to non-violently protest (e.g., hide jews, passive protest, etc.) You can try to argue that Jesus would be out there blowing the whistle on some Jews hiding in an attic in W.W. II, but I don’t think you’ll get too far with that.
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@cystic:
Ironically Mary is not a Christian (AFAIR) - nor am i using the gospel as a support against the death penalty, but rather to shoot down Christian arguments for it.
Than why the spiel about "who would jesus execute?"Â Even if she isn’t Christian, she still shouldn’t take what she wants out of the Gospel and leave the rest and try to claim some moral authority by saying her opinion is backed by christ.
I have read “Mein Kamph” (for college). If you pick and choose (edit heavily) sentences from it a picture can be painted of Hitler only being very patriotic and looking out for the best interests of the German people. The truth is far from that, but if do to “Mein Kamph” what Christians and others do to the Bible than you can twist it to say just about anything.
The bible contradicts, the Gospel does not. Chirst is very constant in his message.
Yes, Christ is very consistent: love thy neighbor, forgive thy enemy, turn the other cheek. I don’t see support for the death penalty in any of Christ’s teachings.
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Jesus would NEVER advocate killing a person, no matter what their crime. “No sin is so great that it cannot be forgiven”. The New Testament is almost exclusively about forgiving people and non-violence.
If thats what he does then forget that! His ideals are too far removed human sensibilities. I guess then all our soldiers in Iraq are goin to hell then? basically anybody who defends against violence is caste?
Thank the gods his influence has only striken the most narrow minded people… except you  :mrgreen:
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@ncscswitch:
On a side note (and sorry for the off-topic), it is a shame that it takes a non-practicing eclectic neo-pagan that was raised Lutheran to tell a Christian their own history in terms of the books that are and are not in their Bible, when they were selected, and when they were removed.
Doesn’t anyone do a Catechism anymore? Doesn;t anyone take Comparative Religion? Doesn;t anyone ever read any of the myth cycles of other cultures?
I’d probably REALLY blow folks away if I mentioned that the Gospels and the story of Jesus Christ is almost verbatim the myth cycle of Zoroastrianism, a minor religion in areas of the Middle East (modern Israel, Lebanon, Jordan and Syria primarily) that was popular in the 2nd and 3rd century BCE. (about 300 years before the time of Yeshuah of Nazareth)
Is this directed at me? Hey buddy, I’m not a Christian. I have just read the bible (esp. the gospel) and think that it has some merit. I have read other religions too, like the one you mentioned. Which was the first religion to adopt a “God” and a “Satan” in the way the bible does (as well as angels). Many think it is what Christianity was based off of. There are still a few left (when I read about them years ago it was estimated at 100k), but not many. Their “burial” is wierd too, (if you can call it a burial). They leave the body out in the open to be eaten by vultures and what not.
If I was to pick any religion that is closest to what I believe it would have to be the baha’i. I don’t buy all of it, but most of it sounds good (I don’t agree that ALL religions have something worth studying. Shinto and confucianism are crap IMO). I have never spoken to a practicing member because I don’t want the illusion to be destroyed. Christianity sounds good from the gospel, than talk to a “Christian” and see how they practice it. Not usualy the same thing at all.
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Then I must stand corrected and apologize. You don;t normally hear a non-Christian being such a strong advocate of the Gospels (as a matter of fact, this time is a first for me). Forgive the assumption.
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I’d like to ask for an excuse on behalf of the smart majority of atheists. The views presented here are singular opinions and by no means should be taken to judge over the entirety of atheists.
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@F_alk:
I’d like to ask for an excuse on behalf of the smart majority of atheists. The views presented here are singular opinions and by no means should be taken to judge over the entirety of atheists.
Hhhmmm, guess I should echo that thought in that MY views are certainly not indicative of the majority of US Neo-Pagans (which are generally so left wing they would make CC look like a George Bush supporting staunch Replublican :-P )
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Is this directed at me? Hey buddy, I’m not a Christian. I have just read the bible (esp. the gospel) and think that it has some merit. I have read other religions too, like the one you mentioned. Which was the first religion to adopt a “God” and a “Satan” in the way the bible does (as well as angels). Many think it is what Christianity was based off of. There are still a few left (when I read about them years ago it was estimated at 100k), but not many. Their “burial” is wierd too, (if you can call it a burial). They leave the body out in the open to be eaten by vultures and what not.
If I was to pick any religion that is closest to what I believe it would have to be the baha’i. I don’t buy all of it, but most of it sounds good (I don’t agree that ALL religions have something worth studying. Shinto and confucianism are crap IMO). I have never spoken to a practicing member because I don’t want the illusion to be destroyed. Christianity sounds good from the gospel, than talk to a “Christian” and see how they practice it. Not usualy the same thing at all.
Whoa, I never expected you to say that! That took me by surprise. I didn’t think people even talked about baha’i anymore…
I’m curious - why do you find Shinto and Confucianism crap?
I’ll start another thread as there’s much to talk about… -
Who would Jesus execute?
Who would jesus have not follow him? Are you penniless and have no home depending only on God for survival?
So knock off the Jesus crap, people only use him as a refrence when it suits their argument. They should focus that energy and take the plank out of their own eye. If you don’t know what that means, I suggest you read the gospel.
if we’re quoting, let’s do the whole thing: “And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and; behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.—
How is talking about Jesus’s message of non-violence being hypocritical? Where have I advocated violence or killing people on this messageboard?
I didn’t say you were being a hypocrite. I am saying you are picking and choosing from the gospel what you want, calling others sinners and not looking at how you do not follow him either. Nice to see the exact quote again mary, but I have a bible. I know it. Don’t throw stones was my argument (and get rid of your plank), and it is backed by the gospel. Or is God giving you the ability to post here? Nope, it is the computer you own. I don’t believe in the death penalty either, but I don’t pick and choose what christ said to back up how I believe… unless it suits me.
Jesus’s message also meant that if you saw your child murdered right in front of you, you should not even try to stop the person commiting the act (by any violent means). Can you do that? I don’t think you could. So like I said, you are picking and choosing to suit your own beliefs and claim that it is backed by Christ. Whether you are Christian or not, you sure sound like one. All Christians reguardless of the sect do exactly what you are doing now.
We share one thing in common, I know the gospel well, and I think you do too. And neither of us consider ourselves Christian. I think (and you may dissagree) that being a Christian by normal measures has nothing to do with what Christ actualy said. If I had to guess, I think that is why you don’t consider yourself one either.
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Who would jesus have not follow him? Are you penniless and have no home depending only on God for survival?
you are warping the words of Jesus to slam Christians and people who try to follow the teachings of Christ. Do you have no real argument and simply try to discredit people’s beliefs because of the manner in which you pull selected references and twist them?
How is talking about Jesus’s message of non-violence being hypocritical? Where have I advocated violence or killing people on this messageboard?
I didn’t say you were being a hypocrite. I am saying you are picking and choosing from the gospel what you want, calling others sinners and not looking at how you do not follow him either. Nice to see the exact quote again mary, but I have a bible. I know it. Don’t throw stones was my argument (and get rid of your plank), and it is backed by the gospel. Or is God giving you the ability to post here? Nope, it is the computer you own. I don’t believe in the death penalty either, but I don’t pick and choose what christ said to back up how I believe… unless it suits me.
again - you use the fact that people own a computer as an argument when it is a complete non-sequitor. Jesus did not say that people could not own computers - he did tell people to believe in and follow him and to be nice to others. He did not even tell us all to give up everything we own - just the one rich person standing in front of him. There were wealthy people in the Acts church and they did not give away EVERYTHING they had - but if they had extra then they gave that up.
Jesus’s message also meant that if you saw your child murdered right in front of you, you should not even try to stop the person commiting the act (by any violent means).Â
where did He say that? He did not. You are making things up, or twisting his words. In fact he did not even come close to this - he was talking about interpersonal relationships.
 So like I said, you are picking and choosing to suit your own beliefs and claim that it is backed by Christ. Whether you are Christian or not, you sure sound like one. All Christians reguardless of the sect do exactly what you are doing now.
many of us actually try to follow all of the tenets of Christianity. It is difficult, but when we see something that is applicable, than we apply it.
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zooey:
I have a bible. I know it.
At one time I had a signature: "Knowledge puffs up but love builds up." I think this quote is valid for you with regards to your statements. Glad to hear that you have great knowledge, but as far as I can tell this knowledge is not making you a more likable person in this case. Read “Flowers for Algernon” sometime. I for one do not appreciate your constant knocking of Christians (being one myself) and your expectation that they must be perfect as Jesus was.
Christianity sounds good from the gospel, than talk to a “Christian” and see how they practice it. Not usualy the same thing at all.
 Sure, Christians can be flawed, everyone can. Some may be even hypocritical, but thats no reason to knock all Christians, or their attempts to live the best life that they can.
Moreover, this strays very far from the topic at hand (capital punishment) and perhaps this thread should be locked as it seems to be degenerating … mods?
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Yea really… give me a club as i need to beat these Jesus hijackers back to Bethlehem.Damm carpetbaggers they are!
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