It was my first game… So I thought i might try…
So Gargantua – what you doing next in our game? Surrendering?? Or going to chew me up like the cookie monster?? LOL
Japan Tactic to help hold off america
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I would say that a G4/J4 could work, I just haven’t seen even a G3/J3 work- I’d have to see a league game or at least a non-ranked game to see how it goes.
I’ve been doing some G5 with Egypt in hands of Italy and a German unit in it (South France grab + navy build). On I3, I take the bordering territories and the Germans walk in on G4 without declaring war (they have the option do so so if there is an opportunity). In these cases, Italy is keeping the UK fully busy and the US has long ways to go before impacting the Western Front.
The purchases in initial turns are focused on Navy / Artillery / Infantry, then I add mech as needs / opportunity dictates (to keep the stack strong enough to get closer to Moscow. Once the stack is in Front of Moscow, it’s a matter of strangling the Soviet Union and keep adding air / ground power to prevent landings.
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What are you talking about here Omega?
’ Germans walk in on G4 without declaring war ’
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What are you talking about here Omega?
’ Germans walk in on G4 without declaring war ’
Italy declares war I3 and takes Baltic States.
Then, the German stacks moves in on G4 in the friendly territory.
On R4, Soviets declare war against Germany, but need to evacuate Leningrad.
G5, the Germans take Leningrad with a token force and Keep moving East (Belarus).
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What are you talking about here Omega?
’ Germans walk in on G4 without declaring war ’
Italy declares war I3 and takes Baltic States.
Then, the German stacks moves in on G4 in the friendly territory.
On R4, Soviets declare war against Germany, but need to evacuate Leningrad.
G5, the Germans take Leningrad with a token force and Keep moving East (Belarus).
Actually have not thought about this… nice move.
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What are you talking about here Omega?
’ Germans walk in on G4 without declaring war ’
Italy declares war I3 and takes Baltic States.
Then, the German stacks moves in on G4 in the friendly territory.
On R4, Soviets declare war against Germany, but need to evacuate Leningrad.
G5, the Germans take Leningrad with a token force and Keep moving East (Belarus).
Actually have not thought about this… nice move.
That strategy works pretty well if Germany goes heavy in the Med early on (and focuses on cheap, 1 move ground units to build a solid stack). You should normally be able to deny the Russian NO on R4 as well.
Russia will be tempted to buy mechanized forces / air forces. It gives them flexibility but at the end of the day you can crush them (see game attached)
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I’ve had the G5 attack done to me by Germany moving into Italian -occupied E Poland, by Infrastructure here on this site. It was sneaky smart…
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G5, even though russia is at war R4
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Ok, G4 then.
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So when you attack Russia on turn 4/5, what army composition do you have? You likely could be facing 40+ Infantry, 5 art, 2 mech, 2 arm, 2 fighter, 1 tac in Belarus or Bryansk.
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Take a look at the league section, check out any of my games as the Axis in the early turns, and you’ll see the variations on the theme. I’m not pretending I do anything special - it’s just what I do, and it’s effective against almost any counter.
But in general, the composition is all the starting forces, and Italy has taken E Poland on I3. Germany then has the choice to attack in the north (Karelia/Vyborg) and across the front (Baltic States/Bessrabia/mech infantry into anything lightly defended in either Novgorod/Belarus/W Ukraine); or to stack in E Poland with everything including aircraft and not declare war and collect some extra wheat from their Russain friends :-)
On turns G2, 3, and 4 I’ve been adding a little fleet and a little air, but mostly bulking up for a long slugfest with Russia… which means purchases I’ve laid out here many times… 6 - 8 infantry, a little artillery, a little mech, and a little armor. But mostly infantry! They’re your best friend in a long battle of attrition, and the strategy fails without them. Basically, you’re beating Russia at what they do best - build and deploy lots of cheap infantry - the difference being, you as Germany have more teeth. Way more teeth :evil:
I suppose, shooting from the hip and without looking at the board, I’d have around 30 - 36 infantry; 9 artillery or so; 6 - 10 mech; 10 - 12 armor, + starting air minus taranto/UK naval clubbings + the one aircraft per turn I’ve been buying.
A HUGE key to my slugfest strategy with Russia is the role played by Italy… and I mean huge. It’s just critical, period. The crux of it is wisdom I finally gained after many many games. I always viewed Italy in the past as a separate, third nation. I no longer do. I see it as an extension of Germany, and nothing more. And nothing less! I know this might sound like ok, whatever, but I’m telling you, it’s anything but. It was a huge revelation for me. All of my choices now spring from this one critical core philosophy. They are part of the same dance against Russia. Again, there’s no way to go into unit by unit detail… every game is different, but the philosophy remains. If you take the time to check out my Axis league games, you can see it happen right in front of you.
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Fair enough. I suppose if Italy is helping a lot in Russia, then the Med is lost?
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It could be… but depends almost completely on how the Allies choose to direct their income. It depends on if the UK ran a taranto. It depends on how the UK has chosen to deploy their air power. It depends if Japan holds off to keep the US out of the war.
One thing that I’ve found to be an amazingly successful strategy (used against me and Infrastructure extremely well by Axisplaya/Team Imhotep) is the early grabbing of Gibraltar… and then feeding Italian troops and aircraft to it relentlessly. Then, the only thing that can get into the Med is subs/air from the Atlantic, and whatever the UK can muster from the Indian Ocean etc… but if you can pull it off, enjoy. You can set up a defense so complete, you’ll have the Med to yourself and be able to commit a few ground units a turn to the East Front (as well as a little air power) - just enough to get some economy and can open for larger German armies.
Take a look at an example of this in a league game vs Infrastructure (it is the one where I am listed first) - it is a deep game (turn 17) and we still have a ways to go. The key was my getting into Gibraltar very early and holding it, then turning my attention toward Russia. Please don’t look at the Pacific :oops:- this is a game he’ll probably win, regardless of the European board outlook, because I made a few errors very early with Japan, plus he’s a great player.
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Here’s the link:
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=29912.195
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Here is a game I am playing against an “experienced player”. As I said in this post, Japan can be making near 70 ipcs on turn 4 with a J4 strategy. In this game I just happened to make 73. If you choose to look at the game you will notice that America is left with a decision.
Take one TT to the islands with 1 inf 1 art and hope to win a 50/50 battle.
Take more from Hawaii and lose leverage towards the islands. (I made the Carolines pretty hard to get)Any small amount of navy he brings I could get with my guys in Japan. If he brings a larger navy, that is navy that is not trying to take islands back.
I have done this strategy 3 times in triple a now and all three I had 70 or more on J4. I even lost 9 planes on UK1 in kwangsi when I had a 94% chance to win the battle. Helped me change the strat a little bit:)
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Hey Stalingradski,
I am curious about your use of Italian troops & equipment against Russia. I have heard of the Italians “can opening” in Russia for Germany but I never thought they had enough to do that. In our games, whomever plays Russia tends to stack heavy along the border territories so there usually isn’t enough Italian units available to take one of the border territories, much less drive any farther into Russia.
Also, do you simply forget about the troops in Africa? Do you use whatever transports you have to evacuate the Tobruk troops back to Europe then let the rest get spammed by England?
Do you try going back after Africa/the Med after taking Moscow? It seems to me that Italy won’t be making much money, although things will seem great for Germany. -
knp7765,
I am actually the one playing as the axis. I use the Italians to can open if the opportunity arises. We are on turn 5 right now. The only opportunity I had was to take Ukraine but I didn’t do it cause I always want Germany to have it.
To answer the Africa question. Depending on how many transports are left after UK1 then yes, I will pull the troops out of Africa. Unless there is a concerted effort to keep Cairo (Germany helping) I have found that I can never keep it for more than a round or so using up a lot of resources to do so. I prefer to help Germany (maybe get a can opener) and once I let America in, I shore up the homeland including France in order to allow Germany to spend all resources in Russia. My German play in this game left a bit to be desired in the purchasing department. I also have been hit A LOT by the Russian snipers….er… infantry. On G6, I should be making about 70 ipcs if all goes as according to plan. That has not been the case so far. Japan is still very strong at about 74 ipcs but on the US next turn they will be able to take back some stuff.
Stal has been a great challenge and really just confirmed to me that there isn’t much you can do to stop Japan from collecting that on J4. I suppose if UK/Anzac really stacked Java then it may take till turn 5. This was just the perfect game to show how distracting the Aleutian/Alaska thing is. I think I chose the Aleutians on this particular turn because it required another turn before he could get it back without using all his transports from Hawaii. So Japan made 73 while America made 67.
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I have done this strategy 3 times in triple a now and all three I had 70 or more on J4. I even lost 9 planes on UK1 in kwangsi when I had a 94% chance to win the battle. Helped me change the strat a little bit:)
Oh yeah those 9 planes hurt you a bit ;)
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Looks like china made a few mistakes. And Uk chose to be passive in the pac. US should of been in Queens a turn ago and UK should of had a factory in persia producing units by this time. I am suprised russia did not try to position himself to take Iraq. At least italy will have no fleet after this next turn. And Germany has been stalled in russia for a little bit.
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Don’t really know what mistakes you speak of with china. UK in the pacific can’t really be too aggressive unless they want to give up Calcutta. If US goes to queens a turn earlier then I probably take Aleutian islands and Alaska to get 75 for the turn. It would allow them to take a TT freely and if they wanted to take more then they would be giving those units to me.
Russia has done great. Every battle they have been getting hits. He forfeited a few ipcs but is in great position since his infantry have “laser” scopes or something. The fact he kept his mech and tank and a few more guys has actually proved to be very helpful as my German push has been slowed significantly.
I would have been more then happy for him to take my Italian navy (which he didn’t because he is smart). I would have wiped them out with my German air force and then started collecting my med bonus. As it is on turn 6, I still have my Italian navy (which is worthless) and haven’t received even one bonus with Italy.
Maybe you should focus on finishing your game against the dark skies guy instead of telling everybody what they should or shouldn’t do. Then maybe what you say would hold some merit:)
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Don’t really know what mistakes you speak of with china. Spreading thing after turn 1, and 2 (risky attack in suyiyan) and risky attack turn 3, but by that time, china was on its last legs(maybe Russian support?). UK in the pacific can’t really be too aggressive unless they want to give up Calcutta. Easily could of stacked Burma round 1 (landing Chinese fighter in Burma), round 3 should of declared and taken yunnan while also having a blocker ready for 37. If US goes to queens a turn earlier then I probably take Aleutian islands and Alaska to get 75 for the turn. A good us player would have at least something in Queensland round 2 to maybe in this case help block 37 on round 3. The US player should have a transport or 2 plus navy /air to handle Aleutian (2 ground and maybe a bomber or 2) while fast units stationed in west US counter Alaska. Also, the US might just wait a turn before reclaiming Aleutian and just kill the jap tranny since Japan did not make much money until turn 4. It would allow them to take a TT freely and if they wanted to take more then they would be giving those units to me. If the US player played this smart, losing Aleutian for a turn would not affect him much especially if Japan waited until turn 4.
Russia has done great. Every battle they have been getting hits. He forfeited a few ipcs but is in great position since his infantry have “laser” scopes or something. The fact he kept his mech and tank and a few more guys has actually proved to be very helpful as my German push has been slowed significantly. I agree, Russia has done very well.
I would have been more then happy for him to take my Italian navy (which he didn’t because he is smart). You think he would send his entire navy against it? A smart player would risk as little as possible in the attack on 97 here unless he really wants to make the german airforce bleed. Since germany’s air is still very big, he is more than likely to lose his navy while germany loses at least half of his airforce. I would still do the minimal approach that leaves less at risk since it handles the threat now and frees up resources elsewhere. Makes putting subs in 97 easier. I would have wiped them out with my German air force and then started collecting my med bonus. As it is on turn 6, I still have my Italian navy (which is worthless) and haven’t received even one bonus with Italy. It is still a threat to him if he tries to leave the med, so it is something he has to deal with in order to lock down italy.
Maybe you should focus on finishing your game against the dark skies guy instead of telling everybody what they should or shouldn’t do. Then maybe what you say would hold some merit:) You are right, I need to continue my most recent PBEM game, which is against Auswanderer not dark skies, but that does not mean that what I say has no merit. Ask some of the regulars on here, I have ample global experience under my belt. Over 2 dozen face 2 face, about equal in Abattlemap play by forum, and a good number more in live triple A. By your logic, anyone who has not faced dark skies do not have any merit in discussing strategy. How about we find a time to play live on triple A (usually works better for me than PBEM). We can play for a couple hours then save and pick up later. Show me your credentials sir, before you criticize mine. The pic is just there because I can.
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