• EI is definitely a threatening IC buy, but it only gets you India’s VP. Now that might be enough to win as the Axis team.  My point, that I do not believe has been addressed, is how do you keep the Philippines Japanese? While you are going West with your remaining BB and AC what is defending them? US could take them and build their own IC.
    I find I can never build enough TT to be aggressive and also defensive. US can choose where to go. Japan is far more constrained, in this game by the VP cities.
    Hobbes: do you just drop 2 more Inf on J2 or 3 knowing the TT is dead in the water? I cannot see what fleet you can spare to defend them is why I am asking.


  • @wittmann:

    EI is definitely a threatening IC buy, but it only gets you India’s VP. Now that might be enough to win as the Axis team.  My point, that I do not believe has been addressed, is how do you keep the Philippines Japanese? While you are going West with your remaining BB and AC what is defending them? US could take them and build their own IC.

    Leave your starting fleet parked in SZ35 off of India.

    I really feel the best defense against a KJF strategy is mass subs in SZ60, and wait for the US to pick a target.  Even if you can’t push the mainland it doesn’t matter.  Germany WILL take Moscow if the US doesn’t get to the mainland.  The UK may slow them down with FTR’s, but RUS and UK can’t do it alone.

    I say put an IC on Borneo just to lure the US to take it, and when they do you pounce with 10-15 subs and your starting fleet in SZ35.  Or just let US build naval units round after round to try and counter your sub builds.  Every round they spend on naval units in the pacific is one round Germany is closer to taking Moscow and winning the game.


  • Counter: R1 buy, 4inf, 2tanks.  Hit Wuk and WRus.  Move Evengi 2inf into China, move Kazah inf into Schezwan.  Stack Buryatia or Yakut (Yakut to lure some Japanese off the line).  1 Russia FTR to Egypt for those purists out there.
    UK hits EI fleet. Buys 2art/inf for India, 2 FTRs.  Assume total annihilation of both fleets. UK FTRs to WRus.  Bomber to Caucus.  Pick up Egypt art/inf and drop in India, get 2 Aus inf to SZ 30 for landing in India UK2.  Tank heads towards India.
    Japan will most likely hit Yunan and Anwehi. Japan can hit PH, but why lose the entire navy? Japan buys its 5 SS
    US buys CV, FTR, DD, Trans, art. US takes Solomons. US can probably hit Yunan or HK. US FTR can stay in Schezwan, but can land in India if hit Yunan to protect India.
    Russia moves all inf and 2 tanks into Schezwan or stay in North China(should now have 3-4 inf/2tanks). Russia buys stuff to fortify its lines against Germany.
    UK buys 1 more FTR and 2 tanks for India…  WRus FTRs to India, UK FTRs to WRus.
    Japan will buy 5 more SS?  Tries to land in Schezwan or Burma.
    US may try to hit phillipines/Borneo on US 2 (so I can load up planes on US3) but I would shuck and get more of the same with CV, FTR, 2 Trans.  Bomber to Solomons.  India can’t be taken cause you don’t have troops (cause you bought subs).  Now India and Russia are free to conquer Asia…because you keep spending money on troops and you are out of troops to attack with because you are trying to buy subs…while you are worried about the US fleet (that can wait you out, India and Russia have taken your cash flow away. and when the US is ready, it will sack its transports to take the Islands away from you…you are now making 10 IPCs a turn. If you want to win, don’t buy tons of subs.  The US will be patient with you and you will unleash the Indian beast.


  • @Mallery29:

    Counter: R1 buy, 4inf, 2tanks.  Hit Wuk and WRus.  Move Evengi 2inf into China, move Kazah inf into Schezwan.  Stack Buryatia or Yakut (Yakut to lure some Japanese off the line).   1 Russia FTR to Egypt for those purists out there.
    UK hits EI fleet. Buys 2art/inf for India, 2 FTRs.  Assume total annihilation of both fleets. UK FTRs to WRus.  Bomber to Caucus.  Pick up Egypt art/inf and drop in India, get 2 Aus inf to SZ 30 for landing in India UK2.  Tank heads towards India.
    Japan will most likely hit Yunan and Anwehi. Japan can hit PH, but why lose the entire navy? Japan buys its 5 SS
    US buys CV, FTR, DD, Trans, art. US takes Solomons. US can probably hit Yunan or HK. US FTR can stay in Schezwan, but can land in India if hit Yunan to protect India.
    Russia moves all inf and 2 tanks into Schezwan or stay in North China(should now have 3-4 inf/2tanks). Russia buys stuff to fortify its lines against Germany.
    UK buys 1 more FTR and 2 tanks for India…  WRus FTRs to India, UK FTRs to WRus.
    Japan will buy 5 more SS?  Tries to land in Schezwan or Burma.
    US may try to hit phillipines/Borneo on US 2 (so I can load up planes on US3) but I would shuck and get more of the same with CV, FTR, 2 Trans.  Bomber to Solomons.  India can’t be taken cause you don’t have troops (cause you bought subs).  Now India and Russia are free to conquer Asia…because you keep spending money on troops and you are out of troops to attack with because you are trying to buy subs…while you are worried about the US fleet (that can wait you out, India and Russia have taken your cash flow away. and when the US is ready, it will sack its transports to take the Islands away from you…you are now making 10 IPCs a turn. If you want to win, don’t buy tons of subs.  The US will be patient with you and you will unleash the Indian beast.

    So your pulling everything out of Africa, which means you have just given 10 IPC per turn from UK to Germany, which means Germany takes Russia even faster now.  Then you’re also pulling Russian TNK’s and INF off the line to support India?  I think this combination is going to doom Russia into a quick loss against Germany.

    Every turn US is “waiting out japan” is one more turn Germany is closer to taking Moscow and winning the game.  Russia CANNOT win the game for you.  You’re entire counter is that Russia somehow miraculously beats Germany with Germany holding Africa, which is never going to happen.

    I’m not saying protecting India is “Impossible”, but to do what is required means Allies lose Moscow and subsequently the game.


  • I only have to take your islands…and India and Russia can take your mainland…if you don’t attack Egypt G1, I will destroy your BB/Trans, so good luck on that Africa trip!  In a KJF, Moscow only has to hold till turn 5-6…and if you are buying subs for Japan, you aren’t going to hold off India.  Ignore India and you lose the war.


  • @Mallery29:

    I only have to take your islands…and India and Russia can take your mainland…if you don’t attack Egypt G1, I will destroy your BB/Trans, so good luck on that Africa trip!  In a KJF, Moscow only has to hold till turn 5-6…and if you are buying subs for Japan, you aren’t going to hold off India.  Ignore India and you lose the war.

    What are you killing my BB/Trans with?  1 Bomber?  G1 took Gibralter so you can’t take your FTR’s.  Odds of 1BMR taking out 1BB is 6%, 19% if you count ties.  So yes i now have Africa.  Want to take UK troops off the Russian front lines to take the Asian Mainland?  Go for it, thanks for making Germany’s job of taking Moscow easier.

    What are you taking my Japanese islands with?  You’re Indian Ocean UK fleets are destroyed unless you fled to the med.  You’re US navy?  J2 buy of 5 subs along with starting navy has a 99% chance of victory against your starting US navy with only 3SS losses.  How many turns are you going to waist buying a US pacific fleet to destroy mine?  How many turns do you think it will take for Germany to take Moscow?  6-8?


  • man, reading is not your strength.  I said if Russia can hold out 5-6 turns, cool. Most likely it will be gone on G6.  You would really risk a German Bomber against a DD?  I do like taking Gib, it’s a good move and probably the most legit one (I would do it).  With the Indian IC already in place, for me Africa isn’t a high pri for UK as it used to be…besides, any income lost in Africa will easily be made up in Asia as Japan coughs up territory to India/Russia and the islands to the US.  Your J1 Subs buy does not protect Borneo from the UK or US transport on turn two. 
    If you protect Borneo w/CV/2FTR/CA/SS/DD, and I can attack it with 2FTR/Bomber/1DD/SS/BB, Borneo falls 78% of the time.  Now Japan has no CVs, while I have mine still in the Solomons w/DD, with another CV on the way, plus additional support.  Plus now you lost your original SS, a DD, and CA.  These two naval battles have cost Japan 80 units of IPCs it can’t afford to replace.
    If you protect the Phillipines and Borneo, your fleet is divided and it makes the options easier for the US without having to risk its CV and I could probably leave another DD behind. It helps though if the UK can get Borneo or EI (can be done easily if something of the UK EI attack survives).  You are going to run out of Japanese troops before you can stop the Americans.


  • @Mallery29:

    man, reading is not your strength.  I said if Russia can hold out 5-6 turns, cool. Most likely it will be gone on G6.  You would really risk a German Bomber against a DD?  I do like taking Gib, it’s a good move and probably the most legit one (I would do it).  With the Indian IC already in place, for me Africa isn’t a high pri for UK as it used to be…besides, any income lost in Africa will easily be made up in Asia as Japan coughs up territory to India/Russia and the islands to the US.  Your J1 Subs buy does not protect Borneo from the UK or US transport on turn two.  
    If you protect Borneo w/CV/2FTR/CA/SS/DD, and I can attack it with 2FTR/Bomber/1DD/SS/BB, Borneo falls 78% of the time.  Now Japan has no CVs, while I have mine still in the Solomons w/DD, with another CV on the way, plus additional support.  Plus now you lost your original SS, a DD, and CA.  These two naval battles have cost Japan 80 units of IPCs it can’t afford to replace.
    If you protect the Phillipines and Borneo, your fleet is divided and it makes the options easier for the US without having to risk its CV and I could probably leave another DD behind. It helps though if the UK can get Borneo or EI (can be done easily if something of the UK EI attack survives).  You are going to run out of Japanese troops before you can stop the Americans.

    What am i using the German bomber for otherwise on G1?  I don’t NEED it, and i have a 85-90% chance of killing the DD in SZ17 with it.  60% chance of killing it and keeping my bomber.  Germany needs the UK fleet gone to get Africa, and that DD will really hinder that capability.

    There is a total of 9IPC on mainland asia, and i really doubt you’ll get them all.  Even IF US buys a pacific fleet to force Japan to buy subs, holding Manchuria, Kiang and Kwang are pretty easy.  So that means UK MIGHT get 3-5 IPC from the Asian mainland, and your giving up 10-12IPC in Africa for it.  Even if you took them all you’d be giving up more than your gaining.  Doesn’t seem worth it to me.  Plus it puts all your UK troops on the opposite side of the continent from the Russian/German front line.  So even IF you do take it all, now your 3-4 turns from getting back to the front lines.  Then how do you hold your newly found land?  Sure Japan doesn’t have much, but if it’s unguarded it doesn’t take much to get it right back.

    See I’m not going to DEFEND Borneo.  I’m going to leave my newly built subs in SZ60 and my starting navy of 1BB, 2DD, 1AC, 2FTR, 1CA, and 1SS (assuming SZ37 is mutually destroyed by UK SZ35/39 units) in SZ35 off the coast of India.  Then i wait until US decides where to attack.  Lets say you take Borneo, now i attack with my starting navy, plus 5 subs.  US loses and i still have my entire fleet minus 3-4 subs.

    The wonderful thing about this strategy is Japan doesn’t have to defend anything.  I just sit and wait for US to decide where it wants to attack, then i counter and destroy it.


  • @Sean.C:

    See I’m not going to DEFEND Borneo.  I’m going to leave my newly built subs in SZ60 and my starting navy of 1BB, 2DD, 1AC, 2FTR, 1CA, and 1SS (assuming SZ37 is mutually destroyed by UK SZ35/39 units) in SZ35 off the coast of India.  Then i wait until US decides where to attack.  Lets say you take Borneo, now i attack with my starting navy, plus 5 subs.  US loses and i still have my entire fleet minus 3-4 subs.

    The wonderful thing about this strategy is Japan doesn’t have to defend anything.  I just sit and wait for US to decide where it wants to attack, then i counter and destroy it.

    Sean, the US can always block those 5 subs on SZ60 from attacking SZ47 by moving 1 destroyer to SZ48. There’s simply no way for Japan to deal with those destroyer blockers unless Germany brings a fighter/bomber to the Pacific. The US can also skip Borneo and focus on East Indies and then the subs on SZ60 can’t reach the US fleet off East Indies.
    Or the US can simply send a single transport with fighter support to take Borneo and then Japan has to react. Lots of ways to skin this cat…


  • @Hobbes:

    @Sean.C:

    See I’m not going to DEFEND Borneo.  I’m going to leave my newly built subs in SZ60 and my starting navy of 1BB, 2DD, 1AC, 2FTR, 1CA, and 1SS (assuming SZ37 is mutually destroyed by UK SZ35/39 units) in SZ35 off the coast of India.  Then i wait until US decides where to attack.  Lets say you take Borneo, now i attack with my starting navy, plus 5 subs.  US loses and i still have my entire fleet minus 3-4 subs.

    The wonderful thing about this strategy is Japan doesn’t have to defend anything.  I just sit and wait for US to decide where it wants to attack, then i counter and destroy it.

    Sean, the US can always block those 5 subs on SZ60 from attacking SZ47 by moving 1 destroyer to SZ48. There’s simply no way for Japan to deal with those destroyer blockers unless Germany brings a fighter/bomber to the Pacific. The US can also skip Borneo and focus on East Indies and then the subs on SZ60 can’t reach the US fleet off East Indies.
    Or the US can simply send a single transport with fighter support to take Borneo and then Japan has to react. Lots of ways to skin this cat…

    You’re talking about a 25% probability for Allies on round 3.  So i make 5 more subs on J3, you take Borneo on US2, and reinforce on UK3, and we annihilate each other on J3.  I now have 4-5 subs in SZ48 and 4 more in SZ60.  You have maybe 1BB.  US3 you build an IC on Borneo.  J4 buy some ground units and TRN’s and start shucking them to the mainland, and i destroy any leftover US/UK naval vessles and you can keep your worthless Borneo.  All you can do with it at this point is build FTR’s and use them to fortify India/Russia.  You’re US/UK naval presence in the Pacific is now over.

    Only way to take Borneo with FTR support is to move an AC into SZ49 which then gets eaten by some subs, or if your entire fleet goes there then we annihilate each other with you having a 40% chance of winning.

    Any way you look at it, Germany takes Moscow and Axis wins.

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