We are good to go :)
Gargantua (Allies) vs Commander Jennifer (Axis) Russia Test
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I’m sorry Jen,
But, you made all the exact same moves against Jmite yesterday. It’s very clear that those were your intentions, to move exactly as such.
You can’t just adjust your moves because it’s been a day? And you saw how JMITE ripped your “plan” apart in the last 12 hours.
I play a friendly game, if it’s still your turn, then you can adjust your pieces. If I have played my turn, then it’s too late. I would expect the same rules to apply to me, and I’m very dissappointed that you would stoop so low!
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You also rolled dice with Japan… then changed your moves… the next NO NO.
If Dice are rolled, it’s also too late :(
You wouldn’t want to see me adjust my purchases after a battle would you?
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You also rolled dice with Japan… then changed your moves… the next NO NO.
If Dice are rolled, it’s also too late :(
You wouldn’t want to see me adjust my purchases after a battle would you?
After what battle? And purchases were not changed. But whatever, we can invalidate the test if you like. I leave it up to you, want a real test or move the Danes to W. German and land two fig, two tac from SZ 111 to W. Ger?
Since nothing was affected for England, India, Australia, America or China, and no dice changed and no purchase orders changed, I fail to see the relevance to your reluctance, unless you are admitting you cannot possibly win the game if the change is made?
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The relevance is that you made a mistake, didn’t fix it, Then played the Japanese turn.
I moved my pieces, because of how you moved YOUR pieces, I also made my buy and placement, based on the location of your units. Now you want me to redo my entire Russian Purchase and Placement (WHICH INVALIDATES YOUR JAPANESE MOVE), because you have moved your fighters and units to differnet locations, it’s crap. This, of course, is AFTER you have rolled dice with Japan which, had they been abysmmal, also would change your own placements and courses of action.
For example, I now want to stack in Amur, considering the redeployment of your Axis aircraft in Europe, I can’t do said move at this time. Because said territory was attacked.
We’re on the the American / British turn now, which I’ve already taken the time to plan, which I would now also have to replan…
I wish things could be different, but there is alot riding on this game, Like a tournament game, and if you said it’s the end of your turn, it’s the end of your turn, and worse you rolled dice, you’ve locked it in. You can ask for a fix, but it’s up to your opponent to allow it, and if the dice have been rolled you are pooched.
You are asking me to allow this change, Sometimes I’ll be forgiving, but in this case (AS WITH YOUR OTHER GAMES - Jmite, Questioneer etc) You made a significant point of putting your planes in Holland. That was your plan, and you made your move. I made my moves and purchase in strict accordance to your aircraft placement.
If nothing rode on the game, it would be a different story, or if the moves were obvious and nominal (Like forgetting the transport to Finland) or you had ASKED politely, I’d be more willing to cooperate.
Thus, we are going to regretably proceed with the allies turn, Please ask DM to moderate if you disagree, I will approve of any decision he makes.
You may choose to resign the game as a loss, or stay in the fight. (The dice are with you so far friend!) That is the decision you can make.
I would expect no different respect, or reprieve from you, if the shoe was on the other foot. The dice are the end all be all :S.
PROCEED!
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I did offer options.
We can rewind to Russia purchase units phase if you like. I highly doubt there is anything you would have done differently. There really is not a whole bunch of things Russia can do that is different from what you did do. At least, not that is equivalently effective. If Russia does not change, then Japan does not need to change. Nothing Russia will do will effect Japan too much, unless you leave units in Amur, in which case all those units would have to roll a battle.
We can leave it as is, but then you are agreeing that your only option to perhaps save the game requires Germany to fail to paste the NCMs from Denmark to W. Germany. That seems a very weak argument and would derail your entire argument that Russia can stand alone against Italy, Germany and Japan without any outside help from the other allies. (Which is the opposite to my argument that i have been making for at least a week now.)
We can leave it as is and not have a transport load dropped in W. Germany at all.
If there is a 4th option, let me know. I only see those three.
1) Rewind and redo Russia.
2) Admit defeat that you HAVE to have this mistake to win.
3) Don’t exploit it and leave everything as is. -
I’m not exploiting anything. I’m playing by the RULES and being gracious at that. You are asking for favours.
If you are unhappy, start a new game.
Admit defeat yourself, you FAILED to post your moves, not me. You are the one who feels that they HAVE to correct this mistake to win in your opinion. That’s your problem.
Shall we call in a moderator? Let’s get a referee ruling.
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So you want option 2. I gave you 3 and offered to let you choose.
Moving a few infantry and a couple planes when there have been no moves by England yet cannot possibly effect anything Russia did. If anything, redoing Russia would allow you to exploit the Japanese attack (but that probably won’t change either, since I doubt you are going to put those units in Amur only to have them killed off by the Japanese.)
What is your resistance? I understand it’s a favor, a favor designed to make it a true test, not an exploit because my copy paste forgot to grab the Danes moving south and a favor to move a couple of planes with plenty of movement spaces over. And? I promise not to scramble them. (Dont want too anyway.) Maybe that’s what you are retisent about? It’s the only shift of power I really see that isn’t a complete exploit. Rules yes…but do you want the spirit of the test or the letter of the test? Do you think it would be any different in games to come? Doubtful. I’ve already altered the text files I copy paste for Germany.
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Oh, and if you like you can have IL and/or DM take a gander. If they say change it so we can actually TEST a strategy then you’d have to abide by it, if they say leave it so we can test my copy / pasting skills I’d have to leave it too.
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And yes, the same mistake was made in JMite’s game, it was the same text file that was grabbed. I have not made it in EM’s or ???'s games because I didnt have the text file yet.
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We can leave it as is, but then you are agreeing that your only option to perhaps save the game requires Germany to fail to paste the NCMs from Denmark to W. Germany. That seems a very weak argument and would derail your entire argument that Russia can stand alone against Italy, Germany and Japan without any outside help from the other allies. (Which is the opposite to my argument that i have been making for at least a week now.)
I agreed to play the game it was meant to be played. You goofed. And you goofed the same way, in a bunch of your other games, that’s a fault in your own strategy, not the game, not me, not the rules.
If you can’t continue, then you are admited your goof has cost you the game, start a new one.
And for the record I never “claimed” that Russia can stand alone. I just said they aren’t “Weaker” in Alpha +.3, please get the facts straight.
IF what you are saying is true, and that this was an oversight, then why didn’t you post it, when you posted the re-moving of your transport???
Because it wasn’t an oversight, it was your plan all along, and it was poor planning on your own part.
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IL is not an impartial moderator. And does not play the game. Therefore cannot Moderate.
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There were a few over sites on Germany 1…transport was one of them.
Anyway, I said I would keep going as is, I just offered you options in the spirit of the game test. If you left a single infantry blocking Bryansk and I had italian units to attack it with a few dozen German armor behind it, that would result in a premature ending of Russia, I would warn you too, it violates the spirit of the test…
At least, I thought we wanted to test to see if Russia could withstand the Germans, Italians and Japanese. We didn’t want to find minor errors. Yes, there is a decent chance you can land an infatnry in W. Germany and drop the complex to a minor. It won’t really change too much since most of Germany’s builds are limited to about 10 units given their finances with a few rounds of 13-15 units more than able to be soaked by 3 minors and a major in Europe.
I didn’t even bother requesting it in Jmite’s game for two reasons: It isnt a concept test and he had already rolled the Allies so major changes would have to occur.
However, if you honestly think that your only chance to win is to exploit this hole (which has been closed and iwll never occur again, so an exploit at best would only give you a single game win, not the morale ground to state that the Kill Russia concept is flawed) then maybe we need to explain that to the public at large. That’s all I am saying, really. In any normal game, I would just pick up and go. (Proof: Only other game with the hole, the one against JMite, I picked up and kept going.)
If you want to continue with US/China/England/Australia then go ahead. I’ll assume you either conceed the only winning move for the Allies is for Germany to make a mistake or that the allies really can win even without a German mistake.
For the record, in both cases: the 2 German infantry from Denmark end up in Berlin on Germany 2. Either by transport if left in Denmark or by walking through W. Germany if changed.
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IL is not an impartial moderator. And does not play the game. Therefore cannot Moderate.
Then you are stuck with DM and he has only played one game of Global 1940. I’m your only moderator on the boards with extensive experience in the game.
I await either the start of England, or a revisal of Russia.
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This is about principle as well, because if you make oversights like this right out of the gate, you are GOING to make more of them. It’s not going to slide.
If you ended your turn, and the other player posted theirs, and you posted your NEXT turn, it’s WAY too late to make changes.
End of story.
Admit defeat or Play. I don’t have to agree to anything, or play any mind/word games. I’m just here to play a fair game of Axis and Allies.
You had ample oppurtunity to review your moves, you took the time to point out that you were agreeing with the transport move as an “error” before Japan’s turn. You proceeded with Japan’s turn. It’s the US’s turn now. It’s too late.
I’m not willing to break the rules of the game, based on any “conditions” you surmise, and I am held to the same standard as you.
Your NCM and Battlemap, very specifically aligned all of your planes in HOLLAND. That is the decision you made. Dice have been rolled, and purchases have been made. Wether or not you are willing to “go back in time” is irrelevant. It never works, and it screws up everygame the moment you do that, so I don’t allow it.
Case Closed unless DM says otherwise. You can ask for a second game, after you conceed defeat, or achieve victory in this one.
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So are you going to roll America or what?
I’ve told you how i see it, and how I will argue it if things dont work out as planned. “A minor mistake due to copying and pasting the non-combat movements lead to a British exploitation of the game board during a testing game. My opponent refused to alter the game board to make the test more valid, since the issue would never arise again. So we cannot really use this game as evidence for or against whether or not Russia can single handedly stop the Germans, Italians and Japanese from destroying it.”
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Oh, and if at all possible, I’d like a second and third game if this wins. Just so that we know it wasnt a fluke of the dice that caused Russia to lose or Germany to win. If you cannot acommodate then that’s just life. I’ll have other games going (already have 1 other one) testing the same practices.
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The correct wording should and will read
“A deliberate oversight during the non-combat movements lead to a British oppurtunity on the game board during a champion rights game. Gargantua refused to alter the game board after dice had been rolled and purchases made. To set a precedent incase the issue would never arise again. As these kinds of things happen in face to face games, this can be considered a valid game for use as evidence for or against whether or not Russia can single handedly stop the Germans, Italians and Japanese from destroying it.”
I’ll post later tonight, I do not have the “facilities” to do so at the moment.
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Facilities?? you need a washing room to post?
It was not a deliberate oversite, it was a common every day error that was corrected before any dice that might have been effected were thrown. You refused to alter the game board because you fear you will lose if you do so. I cannot blame you. Russia doesnt stand a chance unless there is a copy/paste error and even then, they probably still don’t stand a chance. I also really dont want to have to be a sea lawyer to play a game. I doubt you do too, but yet, you are stearing the game in that manner…what typos will count? So if you throw one less die than you are supposed too, I get to say it stands because it was a “deliberate error” on your part? What if you mentally screw up Malta and Malaya and use the wrong country name when doing a movement? Does that invalidate your move because it was a “deliberate error” on your part? As I said, if you accidentally screw up your defense, was it a “deliberate error” on your part? What if you fail to place your units? Does it stand because it was a “deliberate error” on your part?
You see what I am getting at? We can turn what should be a friendly game that is testing a strategy into an excruciating experience because no one gives anyone latitude in an effort to really TEST what is going on. This is not a tournament game, it is not a league game. It is a concept test…There should be LOTS of latitude and collaboration with many rewinds to see if doing something different would alter the outcome.
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I’ve been very clear, there is lots of latitude. The transport for example was a glaring error. It didn’t move on the battlemap, but did on the text file, and you posted as such BEFORE Japan moved. No problem.
Your aircraft, you were very adamant about. They were both on the map, and on the post. The Denmark infantry didn’t move, one “could” argue a case there.
However, things went too far along. If they change now, it invalidates the whole game. You literally didn’t change your move until seeing Jmite post his response to your move. Then you realized it was a bad move. Now you want to change it. That’s not a mistake.
That’s you trying to cover up a BAD MOVE, as a mistake. It’s DISHONEST. That’s why I am very resistant to it, and not willing to budge.
I like to play friendly too, and I’m very forgiving, but I can’t in good concience let your change your moves after you realize they are BAD from another game, unless I haven’t posted my turn yet, or, dice haven’t been rolled. Regardless of anything.
If this was F2F, the allies would already be done, and the moves would be exactly as they are, your bad move made, and that is the PREMISE of playing online, you are supposed to be trying to make it as much like a F2F game as possible.
You threw the gauntlet down. It’s a straight up rights challenge. Welcome.
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Transport HAD to move to justify the NCM. That’s really a non-starter.
Infantry were on my text, fighters should be needed due to the transport…
Guess this is going to be a Sea Lawyer game though…so much for having fun, and testing things out, maybe making adjustments retroactively to see if there is a way to actually make Russia strong enough to STOP the axis from defeating it.
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