How to play Japan!?

[Carnage]

I’ve never played online, just face to face games. 4 regular players (including myself) and 2 people that make it when they can. We play every other weekend.
The China moves are standard openers in my opinion, the Naval Base is an excellent idea, but I think going right towards India wouldn’t work in my group. Not as a Turn 3 goal anyway. Generally India’s planes stay on mainland Asia to help push the IJA and the Navy stays to block/harass/attack depending on whatever the IJN seems to be up to. More often than not it revolves around protecting the Dutch territories and containing them as much as possible. As the UK I don’t plan on declaring war on Japan, but if I see an appealing opening I don’t mind taking it.
‘Surprise’ attacks like these are rarely successful, as long as your watching the board and noting the potential moves of your opponents I’m not sure how India can be surprised with the assault.
But just because it wouldn’t be likely to work with us doesn’t mean it wouldn’t work at all, it’s just my read of it and how myself and the others would likely react.

[Axisplaya]

I’ve read the strat outlined by ZehKaiser, and there is nothing new there. This strat has already been mentioned numerous time here. In fact, at least one time for each version (OOB, Alpha +1 and +2).

This strat was a killer in OOB Pacific, and is an interesting Gamble in the Alpha versions.

Fact is: anytime a NB is build on J1 in Hainan(and transports in sz36 of course), India, as a reflex, is watching closely at those moves. The India crush is not going to be a surprise for any decent player.
Ind will take Sum with 2inf from Mal and Cpr with a tnk from Alx via tr sz98, for a maximum defense in India on UK2.

So in the end, you have a battle looking like this:

Attacker= 6 land units + 12-13 planes (AAgun will shot 2 planes in Alpha2, and 1 plane in Alpha3 according to odds).

Defender= 25-26 land units + 3planes

There is no way India will fall without big losses for Japan, and on any good defense or poor attack rolls, India will hold.
This is a strat for gamblers. I wouldn’t play it in a tournament, but why not once in a while in friendly games.

[ZehKaiser]

I agree that if you play at a level where you’re playing tournaments or lots of play by email games then you’re at a level where this might not work, but I think that even if you don’t take India on J3 moving to SZ36 and putting a NB there is a good idea for J1. It just gives you many options. I’m sure a crafty opponent wouldn’t fall for this a lot. BUT if you’re playing friendlies occasionally, (as I assumed MightyPol was when I posted based on his original post) then this strat or variations of it can be very effective. I feel as though all of these India defenses that people are bringing up are out of the greater context of an actual global game. I feel like they are defenses that are possible to theorize when you know exactly what’s coming because I just brought it up to you, but that in an actual game wehre you didn’t announce ahead of time that you’re going for a J3 crush that no actual real life opponent would do half that. And if they did then you have other benefits, like a weak egypt.

Also, if by me simply putting my fleet on SZ36 in J1 is such an obvious J3 India crush to so many of A&A players than its even better. Then you can easily fool an opponent. Axisplaya, if you would stack exactly what you said on India based simply on me moving to sz36 on J1 then you would be easier to feint than anybody else since you are so sure I’d attack India. It’d be easy to hit the allies somewhere else while you sit on India with 2 turns of builds and most of your starting units.

[Carnage]

@ZehKaiser:

I feel like they are defenses that are possible to theorize when you know exactly what’s coming because I just brought it up to you, but that in an actual game wehre you didn’t announce ahead of time that you’re going for a J3 crush that no actual real life opponent would do half that. And if they did then you have other benefits, like a weak egypt.

Also, if by me simply putting my fleet on SZ36 in J1 is such an obvious J3 India crush to so many of A&A players than its even better. Then you can easily fool an opponent. Axisplaya, if you would stack exactly what you said on India based simply on me moving to sz36 on J1 then you would be easier to feint than anybody else since you are so sure I’d attack India. It’d be easy to hit the allies somewhere else while you sit on India with 2 turns of builds and most of your starting units.

Of course the defenses proposed here are responses to knowing what’s coming, that’s why this is all theory, and not practice.
Your strategy works incredibly well against people who abandon the Pacific in favor of a more powerful Mediterranean, and it wouldn’t work (at least not as well) on those that don’t. The way I play the UK you would have a much more difficult fight in India once you arrived (if you chose to commit to the attack).  J1 doesn’t give your strategy away, but the end of J2 does. It’s about reading the map and seeing what all your opponents attack options will be for the next round. So because I choose to play in both theaters instead of just 1 it’s unlikely that by the time I was able to see the potential threat that I wouldn’t be able to get most of my planes and navy back to either deter the attack or inflict as much damage on you as I could.
The risk with the strategy is that it can be pretty much an all in, it’s either a huge pay off or a really rough rest of the game. If Japan takes too many losses than when the US comes to the party they set the beat and you dance to the tune.

[Axisplaya]

@ZehKaiser:

I agree that if you play at a level where you’re playing tournaments or lots of play by email games then you’re at a level where this might not work,

Doesn’t mean anything : there are some bad players also in Pbem and tournament games.

It is just about being experienced.

@ZehKaiser:

but I think that even if you don’t take India on J3 moving to SZ36 and putting a NB there is a good idea for J1. It just gives you many options.

Never said it wasn’t a good idea. Actually, it is this J1 NB purchase that creates the J3 India Crush threat, which is very serious. Also, it’s always interesting to be able to reach sz6 from sz36. I’ve build NB in Hai several times (but i personally prefer J2 for that).

@ZehKaiser:

I’m sure a crafty opponent wouldn’t fall for this a lot. BUT if you’re playing friendlies occasionally, (as I assumed MightyPol was when I posted based on his original post) then this strat or variations of it can be very effective. I feel as though all of these India defenses that people are bringing up are out of the greater context of an actual global game. I feel like they are defenses that are possible to theorize when you know exactly what’s coming because I just brought it up to you, but that in an actual game wehre you didn’t announce ahead of time that you’re going for a J3 crush that no actual real life opponent would do half that. And if they did then you have other benefits, like a weak egypt.

Again, you seem to make a big difference between a “normal real life player” and internet players…It’s just about how experienced and skilled a player is. Of course, someone who play a lot on internet gets to play with a lot of different people, which is very good to get experience. When you only get to play everytime with the same 4-6 players in real life, it might be more difficult to discover all the best strats and counter.

@ZehKaiser:

Also, if by me simply putting my fleet on SZ36 in J1 is such an obvious J3 India crush to so many of A&A players than its even better. Then you can easily fool an opponent. Axisplaya, if you would stack exactly what you said on India based simply on me moving to sz36 on J1 then you would be easier to feint than anybody else since you are so sure I’d attack India. It’d be easy to hit the allies somewhere else while you sit on India with 2 turns of builds and most of your starting units.

Err….What about playing a game with me ? Then you’ll find out if i am so easy to feint…

I just said that for an experienced player, a fleet + transports in sz36 + J1 NB build on Hainan =  emphasis on India Defense.
The only move i mentioned in my previous post that i might not do in the situation described is the tnk from Alx to Cpr, because this move depends on what Germany has done on G1 (saving UK is more important than saving India).
All the rest of units i mentioned would be in india for sure. And i don’t care if my UK units are turtling in India. From sz36 you are not going to surprise me with any move, believe me.

Just chill out man. My previous post wasn’t mean to critisize your idea. And whatever happens after your J1, the NB is not a waste of IPCs, you can use it for India Crush or for other interesting moves if you see that your oponent reacts well to it.

[special forces]

@Axisplaya:

. From sz36 you are not going to surprise me with any move, believe me.

Any player that doesn’t notice a fleet (with transports) withing range of their capitol, or such a NB being built, is sleeping (and it’s not that India has so much to do)

[theROCmonster]

alright clyde if you want to know what a good strat for japan is I will tell you what my japan is sitting out right now in a global game I am playing via pbem. Player hasn’t responded in over a week so I think it’s a wash. On Japan turn 5 I have 6 subs 1 transport 1 destroyer in sea zone 6. 2 infantry 1 fighter in japan. 8 infantry in manchuria. 2 infantry in korea. IC in kiangsu I purchased on the first turn with 2 mechs and a tank. 6 inf 1 art in kazakhstan. China is totally whipped out. I havent played a game yet where I didn’t kill china by turn 4 of japan. This might be because of poor play by the allies. I recommend on turn 1 sending 15 planes to kwangsi. 2 carriers to sea zone 36. Making a total of 19 planes china has to deal with in the event he makes a mistake. This also allows for an early attack on UK and anzac because of everywhere your planes can reach. Back to my unit totals. I have 1 carrier 5 DD’s 8 subs in sea zone 35 with 2 fighters on phillipines. (BTW all my carriers have 1 fighter 1 tac on them). 1 transport in sea zone 36. 4 transports 2 cruisers 2 battleships 3 carriers in sea zone 37. 1 sub in sea zone 39. UK has 14 units left in pacific and is making 4 dollars a turn after convoy raiding. I have 9 ground units in french indo china. 3 in yunan 2 in szechwan and 2 in kwangsi. Along with 7 planes in szechwan and 6 planes on my carriers in sea zone 37. Play methodically. Look for weak points in allies play. No need to bun rush when japan has the advantage for the first 5-7 turns in numbers. If US doesn’t put 100% in pacific then this is even better for japan. Build a ton of fleet. I recommend only building 3 ground units a turn with japan. THese are to be placed in your factory bought turn 1 in kiangsu. I recommend these 3 units to be mechs. If you can spare the extra 2 dollars build tanks. All in all when building ships buy almost soley subs. They are cheap and fodder units. Japan starts off with a huge amount of heavy hitting units. Only build a carrier with japan if absolutley necessary. I consider necessary to hold sea zone 6. All in all I don’t think japan should have more than 5 carriers at one time since 1 carrier equals 4 planes if used properly. so that would mean 5 carriers equals 20 planes. This is already 1  more than japan has to start with since bombers don’t  count. This is my brief recommendation for Japan.

[Clyde85]

@theROCmonster:

alright clyde if you want to know what a good strat for japan is I will tell you what my japan is sitting out right now

……um ok, dont know why this is directed at me, im not the one who asked “How to play Japan!?” I have my own way of playing Japan. This post is for the benifit whom ever started the thread and wanted to know. A blanket statment of “Play correctly” dosnt really teach the enquiering player anything, nor give him your unique perspective on playing Japan that he could possibly take away from reading here and apply to his own games. He might find something from your play style that works well for him and improve his overall enjoyment of playing the game.

Also, and this is really just a minor thing, but posting about where you got a country to really dosnt mean anything unless you tell people how you got them there, how their enemies responded, how you countered, how you spent your IPC, ect. Without this context its like telling someone about the best sandwhich you ever made and then handing them two slices of bread to re-make it with.
@theROCmonster:

IC in kiangsu I purchased on the first turn with 2 mechs and a tank. I recommend on turn 1 sending 15 planes to kwangsi. 2 carriers to sea zone 36. Making a total of 19 planes china has to deal with in the event he makes a mistake. Look for weak points in allies play. No need to bun rush when japan has the advantage for the first 5-7 turns in numbers. If US doesn’t put 100% in pacific then this is even better for japan. Build a ton of fleet. I recommend only building 3 ground units a turn with japan. THese are to be placed in your factory bought turn 1 in kiangsu. I recommend these 3 units to be mechs. If you can spare the extra 2 dollars build tanks. All in all when building ships buy almost soley subs. They are cheap and fodder units. Japan starts off with a huge amount of heavy hitting units. Only build a carrier with japan if absolutley necessary. I consider necessary to hold sea zone 6. All in all I don’t think japan should have more than 5 carriers at one time since 1 carrier equals 4 planes if used properly. so that would mean 5 carriers equals 20 planes. This is already 1  more than japan has to start with since bombers don’t  count. This is my brief recommendation for Japan.

Which is totally what you do here, so good job and great ideas  :-)

[theROCmonster]

I will go over the purhcases and how I would counter each move. Turn 1 I always buy 1 IC and 2 transports. Place IC in Kiangsu ( I do this so that the mech infantry I produce on turn 2 can attack kwangtung, leaving my transports to attack all 5 of the major islands I need to take). Turn 2 depends on where UK moved his units and where Russia put his 18 inf and 2 aa guns. If russia put them on the boarder in amur T2 then I try to keep a transport or two in range of sea zone 6 so I can offload into korea. I recommend as japan if russia puts units in amur keep manchuria open and defend korea. Japan goes after russia so china will never see those 3 IPC’s. On turn 2 usually japan has 40 dollars so I build 3 mechs, for the factory in kiangsu, 2 subs 2 destroyers. Since US has only had 1 turn of build you really can’t look at what US is doing yet since he can at any time move his naval units from atlantic to pacific. T3 with japan I have yet to attack UK and I am probably made 42-44 last turn. Since I like to attack UK and Anzac on Japan T3 I have all my transports set up to take out all the islands. I buy 3 mecs and all the rest subs and 1 destroyer from here on out. I like to continue building only 3 ground units and all sea besides that keeping subs as the majority buy for the sea. Hope this helps a little more.

[Thantonous]

The great thing about this game is the replay ability of it. I have found that each game is different games flow and strategies change depending what your opponet does. In you 2 post and with your explanation of your purchases, I think you give a very good idea of how to approach playing Japan. Great post!

Thantonous

[theROCmonster]

does anyone have a question on how to counter a certain play from the allies on the pacific side?

[BigBadBruce]

@theROCmonster:

does anyone have a question on how to counter a certain play from the allies on the pacific side?

The only “Pacific Alliance strategy” I ever heard of is a “All Pacific US”… which is a fail IMO. I easily demonstrated it was a very, very bad idea for USA to put all his money in Pacific.

Do you have an Alliance strategy to discuss about?

[theROCmonster]

Honestly the allies I believe have a much harder time getting down the “perfect strat”. Not saying my axis strat is perfect by any means but the allies have so much to do… What do you normally have problems with on the european board bruce? I see that russia falls everytime no matter what, and I totally agree with that, but since the axis still need cairo it might be a long game to see if japan would fall before cairo or UK…

[theROCmonster]

so far I haven’t found a counter to the way I play the axis. I have played myself and the axis seem to be winning a lot more. What I like to do with russia is retreat the 18 infantry from the start back to moscow. This does two things. 1. protects stallingrad and the underbelly of russia from japan. 2. more men on moscow for defense. As UK I go 100% against italy until I knock out their fleet completly and am pumping units into greece and that area from my factory I have in egypt. With America I like to have 4 transports in the atlantic. UK can protect these with his ships. The rest I put into the pacific. Interesting game in that even is moscow falls the european board can still be even if Italy is gone and the allies are pumping loads of units into the south of germany. I think America is by far the hardest country to play as. Play them wrong game is lost. Play them right game might be won. Problem with america not building at least 90% for pacific I see is that japan will have the edge in naval power for at least 8 turns. This just becomes a nightmare because by then UK India has fallen for sure and china is dead and russia is having some serious problems in his backside. Not to mention Japan will be making close to 80 dollars… Allies are tough and I think it will take 50 games of play before I figure out a good way to play them.

[Metaxas]

@JimmyHat:

@WILD:

I haven’t really played where Jap didn’t at least try to take 1/2 of China…

Sounds like you have a new strategy to try out the next time you’re Japan.  I still pop China in the mouth J1–I try to cut the burma road for 1 round, but after that retreat all remaining Japanese forces to Russia and perhaps a few to SEAsia.  Notice the look of surprise and big grin forming on your opponents face?  He’s all hot-and-bothered over having a strong China…but you already know China cannot leave CHINA!

This strategy really only works when Moscow is your Axis goal, so KRF, and once Moscow falls then you can attack India from the weaker Western direction.  You will not be able to win on the Pacific board with this strategy because you are leaving 2 VC’s to China, so you’ll need to win the game on the Europe board then.

Am I missing something? People are mentioning China cannot leave China, and at the same time saying China will control 2 VCs. Last time I checked there is only one VC in China. Chinese troops can only enter territories which are Chinese and Kwangtung/Hong Kong is definitely British, not Chinese.

[Jennifer]

@Metaxas:

@JimmyHat:

@WILD:

I haven’t really played where Jap didn’t at least try to take 1/2 of China…

Sounds like you have a new strategy to try out the next time you’re Japan.  I still pop China in the mouth J1–I try to cut the burma road for 1 round, but after that retreat all remaining Japanese forces to Russia and perhaps a few to SEAsia.  Notice the look of surprise and big grin forming on your opponents face?  He’s all hot-and-bothered over having a strong China…but you already know China cannot leave CHINA!

This strategy really only works when Moscow is your Axis goal, so KRF, and once Moscow falls then you can attack India from the weaker Western direction.  You will not be able to win on the Pacific board with this strategy because you are leaving 2 VC’s to China, so you’ll need to win the game on the Europe board then.

Am I missing something? People are mentioning China cannot leave China, and at the same time saying China will control 2 VCs. Last time I checked there is only one VC in China. Chinese troops can only enter territories which are Chinese and Kwangtung/Hong Kong is definitely British, not Chinese.

China is permitted to move into Kwangtung and Burma as well as original Chinese territories.  Kwangtung is a Victory City (Hong Kong) so theoretically, China can hold two victory cities and keep them out of Japanese hands.

I disagree with this opinion, I think there’s a 150% chance that Japan can pretty much ignore China and the Russian infantry and still hold the two victory cities, but as I said, that is something I think, I have not written a treatise on how to do it and rebuttal over every possible argument and tactic that can be used to try and stop it.  So yes, it’s opinion.  :wink:

One thing Japan needs to keep in mind is this:
“Planes, Ships, Infantry, IPC and anything else you have will not let you win the game.  You can only win the game (with Japan) if, and only if, you control 6 Victory Cities for one round of play.  If it costs you 22 planes and 1 infantry to take that last victory city and there is no possible way for the allies to liberate one within the next game round, this is a very good investment!”

[Cow]

There are several overall strategies to Japan. The drive to australia and the cash isles or china/india first or China/Russia first (a assist germany by hammering russian states for income).

Some peeps like to slap a major IC down on asia, problem is the only spot you can slap one on is a bit out of touch with China. Some peeps like a few minors and slap some tanks down, which works out fine as you clear china quicker which makes up for the expense.
Some peeps like transports but japan only cranks 10 guys so you gonna need a complex eventually. Depends on how fast you want to claim the islands to be honest.

getting enough to take australia is rough because it becomes out of reach of the mainland asia for a bit and the americans have a strategic location. Works out if you can sink USA.

Most people solve the chinese problem first and figure out where to go from there depending on their opponent. Some peeps kick off the war round 1 others round 2… few wait for round 3.

[Cow]

To be honest as long as you have decided on a capital that is Moscow, India, or Aussieland…. you will be fine. Games are won or lost at capitals, you should push for it as axis. Allies usually hole up in India for a bit so it may take some work. ANZAC usually gets support from USA and it is hard to take because it is hard to get men over there and he has a complex down already (in other words if he feels threatened he stops making navy/air and cranks infs).

Moscow push sometimes works out instead of india if india is well fortified after you shutdown burmaroad and china. Also it is kind of unexpected and it is a gambit…  Good times though.  fly all the planes to russialand and get ready to take russia with some hardened vets that killed chinks and a couple armor… yeah good times. If you win… it makes up for all your losses you will experience back home (as long as you hold japan… who needs asia when you got russia baby).

So you can play the old way sometimes with a russia first strat. I do it when the opportunity presents itself.

[ghr2]

@BigBadBruce:

@Noll:

#ZehKaiser

what if after you move all your fleet in India’s seas, during J2, the american player moves all his fleet 1 sea zone from sz6?

I don’t see this as a real problem. USA can’t have an amphibious attack strong enough to take Japan. As for navy, I never (ever) saw a USA able to hold in z6 long… with Japan’s planes, I would just load 2 fresh carrier in z6 along with few DD (as ZEH said, kept behind) and additionnal 3 planes in Japan. It should do it to repel USA Navy.

Keeps them off india for a turn however, very helpful