@Cmdr:
Anyway, it’s rather humorous that for well over two years now I’ve been saying the RAF attack on the Nord See Fleet is a foolish endeavor and now CSub finally seems to agree with me.
It’s rather humorous that you think you’re being agreed with :-D
The prior discussion in this forum was primarily about the GUF (German United Fleet) on R2. UnBaltic is about a fleet in Z07 on R1. Very different, since the R2 fleet has an additional 1tra 1btl 1car/3tra.
Don’t compare apples and kumquats.
Peace
I’m comparing apples to apples.
UK Attack on SZ 5 when it’s 2 transports, submarine and destroyer is almost identical to UK Attack on SZ 7 with the same gear, maybe even with the extra submarine.
Both are bad moves, IMHO. The extra submarine is worse, but even without it, you are trading 20-35 IPC worth of valuable equipment from England for 36 IPC worth of equipment that would be nice to have for Germany, but no huge burden if it is lost.
Kinda exactly what CSub is FINALLY saying that I’ve been repeating like a broken record for over two years.
Obviously the carrier changes things. I never suddenly changed my mind and said we should attack SZ 5 if it had a carrier and some fighters in there too.
Kinda exactly what CSub is FINALLY saying that I’ve been repeating like a broken record for over two years.
There’s a time when to know when to give up your ego, Jen. Csub correctly advocates fighting 2 sub 1 tp 1 dest with 2 fig 1 bom, and if you’ve been reading carefully, they say even if you don’t like finishing that fight you should at least strafe then retreat. The addition of the extra sub though makes it a very volatile fight because you very well might not get to the tp and wind up trading your airforce for some subs.
And the funny thing, you’ve attacked my Baltic fleet every time no matter where it went, in spite of you “saying” that it’s not a good move. Guess what people think when you say one thing and do another?
For Jen:
Cochran: Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, Chef’s attorney would certainly want you to believe that his client wrote “Stinky Britches” ten years ago. And they make a good case. Hell, I almost felt pity myself! But, ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense!
Gerald Broflovski: Damn it!
Chef: What?
Gerald: He’s using the Chewbacca Defense!
Cochran: Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two-foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me. I’m a lawyer defending a major record company, and I’m talkin’ about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you’re in that jury room deliberatin’ and conjugatin’ the Emancipation Proclamation, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests.
Bean, that’s because you never expect me to attack it. :P
In most of my games, I fly over the Baltic fleet and wave and unify my fleet in SZ 12.
@Cmdr:
Bean, that’s because you never expect me to attack it. :P
In most of my games, I fly over the Baltic fleet and wave and unify my fleet in SZ 12.
It’s not that I don’t expect you to attack it, it’s that I’m waiting to see if your words ever match up with your actions. I think every time you have attacked it in AAR you’ve lost, anyways.
That’s because the better strategy is to land all your fighters and bomber in W. Russia so that you can immediately put threat on the German navy if it is in SZ 15/16
The only time it’s considerable to attack is if your opponent doesn’t think you will, or if you have to protect against Sea Lion. It’s the lesser of two evils in that case.
Well it looks like your back in a new form with a new name. nice.
No reason to have left in the first place IMO.
Welcome back!
Hey ImpLdr.
Yup, I came back a while ago and I explained the name change then (for other folks, I used to be CrazyStraw, but I bought into the Ender-mania upon my return).
Things are much calmer now than back in the day :-D
Interesting - I just tried something similar in a game with peruri only to see almost the exact same thing posted on CS for all the world to see. Never tried it before but as the paper said, I liked the fact that it at least seems to put a lot of early pressure on the british fleet and airforce and has the potential to put a fair number of their units at risk. Not sure how it will turn out but it seemed worth a shot. Unfortunately I didn’t buy the (apparently) all-important 2nd bomber. :(
I dunno how important the second bomber is to make it work. I guess it could be nice, but I have never, personally, won a game with Germany when I had two bombers for Germany. I have lost a game with two bombers for germany however!
I like the paper, and I will probably give it a shot next time I’m Germany, but there are two points that make me wary.
1. You’d BETTER win in Egypt. This strategy leaves no margin for faliure. The last thing you want is for the UK Indian fleet to join up with the DD in SZ 15.
2. I still don’t like the UK Bom/DD versus Ger BB/Tran in SZ 13. If UK gets lucky, then you’re down a transport (or possibly both transports if he hit SZ 7 with the rest)…it’s not like UK needs a DD that’s hardly ever alive, so it’s more a question of whether or not the UK player is willing to potentially sacrifice a bomber to force a German Rd 2 transport purchase.
Maybe build a sub in SZ 14 to block the DD and buy a few less Inf??
…still, quite interesting.
If they attack your bb/tran with dest/bom, that means the bom isn’t available to attach the fleet in SZ7. That’s a huge detriment, means it will slip away and the Germans get their transport back. Even if you don’t like leaving the tran/bb undefended, realize the UK bomber like the paper says has other things to do like attacking the SZ7 first of all and second clearing Egypt more efficiently.
Csub papers.
They’re like when you look this homeless guy in the eye, and he tells you very convincingly how (fill in blank). You listen, and it sounds right, and you keep listening. Suddenly he whips off his hobo suit, and it’s Tom Cruise, and you’re a Scientologist.
Moral of the story: When reading CSub papers, be wary of conversion to Scientology. :wink:
(note) - CSub papers often offer a good deal that is of value. But don’t swallow their stuff whole. Read and think carefully.
Or else . . . hoboes!!!
Moral of the story: When reading CSub papers, be wary of conversion to Scientology.
You’d be surprised how often we hear this about our group.
Everything has its merit. Nothing is the ‘perfect’ strategy…only a version of it.
The best strategy is to remain flexible at all times, because all the games are different. If you employ the same ideas too often they will be imitated and overcome or refuted which is probably a good thing for the game anyway.
Too much home preparation is ruining the game to some extent, because the social aspect of games is to allow some degree of diplomacy with teammates and thats lost if your following some script somebody wrote.
Another reason why I only play it with 4 players minimum. Thats the way it was designed to be played IMO.
You listen, and it sounds right, and you keep listening. Suddenly he whips off his hobo suit, and it’s Tom Cruise, and you’re a Scientologist.
lawlz
Something close to the UnBaltic has been used on me twice, actually in my past two games I think, and I’ve been itching to try it out. I really like the addition of the bmb. It’s like a ftr purchase in that you threaten UK/US with it while using it on land–but it’s a bomber! That range of 6 means it can probably be used in any attack you want, turn after turn after turn.
So I’m just waiting for the TripleA server to stop acting up so I can play Axis and try this out. Two thumbs up, CSub.
I like the paper.
The weird thing is for the first time ever Csub has released something that wasn’t completely news to me! Either I’m getting better, or Csub is getting….BETTERER.
Everything else then an atttack from UK on SZ5 if germany doesn´t sink in more ships is a failure, if sz 14 isn´t up for grabs of course (that means it consists of 1 bb, 1 trn).
Then my new idea is to allways attack it with 1 bmb, 1 fig and that makes it dumb to hit sz5 the same turn.
Bean,
It’s correct that the bomber won’t be available for BOTH battles (SZ 7 and SZ 13.) But it does not NEED to be available for both.
If England’s making a stretch and does both battles, they can win them both. Dunno if they can survive it financially, but they can. 2 Transports, Battleship, 2 Fighters to SZ 7, Bomber Destroyer to SZ 13.
Dunno, I don’t think I’d do it. Guess it would depend on Russia. If Russia hit Ukraine almost unscathed and Egypt destroyed the Africa Corps, I’d be much more inclined to punch Germany right in the nose with the British RAF and Navy. (After all, America is coming and you know Germany’s going to be crying for Japan if you get lucky OR unlucky then.)
If Russia got hurt and/or Egypt fell without resistance, I might think better of it.
Anyway, I find that with most CSub Papers, they have some good ideas, but they’re usually ones I already had, but they have a lot of bad assumptions as well. The worst assumption is that their papers work outside of their groups and that’s bad because no one else uses their rule set; just about everyone else is using LHTR and if not LHTR then it’s the rules from the box. Only their group uses their rule set, really.
Further complicating the matter is that this, specific, paper is asking you to count on Cascade Dice Failure. I don’t think you can ever count on that. I think you have to plan for Cascade Dice Failure to ONLY work against you, never for you. This is why 100% of my Bombers on SBR runs get shot down on their first run, but 0% of my enemy bombers on SBR runs ever get shot down (and always do 4 or more IPC damage per bomber too, mind you.) CDF would tell you that SBR is a bad move because you are risking 15 IPC for 4 IPC on the roll of 1 die that has a 17% chance of hitting you. Real life tells you that SBR is a bad move for YOU because you have a 97% chance to get shot down and a 3% chance to take 1 IPC while your enemy has a 97% chance to survive and do 5 or 6 IPC damage to you.
