The Map Modification Question

  • 2007 AAR League

    From what I’ve read, it seems the plan is to stick with the current map, with a secondary map having Italy in it. My question is: Why don’t we change the map. When A&A became A&A revised the map was changed, and players still stuck with it. That shows that the main reasoning ‘changing the map will turn players away’ is false. If anything, modifying the map will encourage play because it opens up the doors to a number of new strategies. If properly developed the new map could be designed to accent many of the rule changes being made, and opening up the map for alteration allows us greater lee-way when changing/creating rules.
    One of the main problems with A&A revised is the somewhat one-sidedness of the game. Rule modifications will likely help in evening the scales, but I’m sure part of the Ally’s advantage lies in the geography of the map.

  • We are not actually making a whole new game, we are just taking the revised version and giving it different rules, we hope Larry Harris will look into these and give him some ideas, but we don’t have any rights to make an Axis and Allies game.

  • 2007 AAR League

    but if we want to modify the rules why not the map?

  • Well, there has been some talk about making minor map changes, with perhaps a marker or something of the sort, but we don’t have the rights to produce a whole new map.

  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Not correct we have to right to remake the map in any way as long as we dont make money on it.

    I have a modification map that includes Italy and the new VC as well and will contain all the new neutrals. It will also have printed exactly where each piece goes so its easy for set up. Dont worry thats the least of our problems. lets just get the rules right.

  • 2007 AAR League

    Looking at the rulebook copyright, and the amount of time you all (and hopefully soon me as well) have put into this project, another question comes to mind.
    Why not publish the game as a new and seperate entity? Create a new map and modify the system that is being designed at the moment. With some extra work we could create the ultimate WW2 wargame. Not an A&A variant - our own game. Avalon Hill owns the current map, and I’m sure by researching the patent we’ll find out what else. A tweak here, an innovation there, and this ‘for-fun’ project could pay.
    Just an idea I’m throwing out there. I’m looking forward to helping out no matter the desired end result, but I like to think big. Everyone here seems to have a head on their shoulders and a great grasp of WW2. I’ve always wanted to create a wargame, but my friends never were interested.

  • Moderator

    Because that would require a lot of legal issues in regards to some of us that would actually be “contributing” and thereby “earning” from the game… This was meant to correct problems that are viewed as “not-the-best” for AaA… Now if Imperious Builds a map and sells that separate then that would be up to him…


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    We are not offering this for profit. The intent is a gift for axis and allies fans. Look at LHTR which is a document that was painstakingly made to reflect one players need for complete rules accuracy and to resolve questions during play w/o “interpretations”

    This project is Free and will never cost anybody any money ever. forget it. Its a sacred duty here to provide an outlet for people who want something more from their game and more realism. WE are working pro-bono on this.

  • 2007 AAR League

    Merely something to consider. I’m up for a little charity work  🙂

  • Well put Imperial, you brought a tear to my eye, I am proud to be able to be a part of this project, thank you for allowing me to work with you guys.

    On with the gaming! You asked me to make a setup change and it may be helpful if I was able to see the map if this was actually the map that we are going to include in our project. I posted a rough idea that had minor changes to few places based on the OOB board.
    I know you already E-mailed it to me but I accidentally erased it. I could make the whole setup based on actual historical figures if you want me to. I have a stack of books including the economics, military strength and tactics of world war 2. If this is too far ahead of where we are at than that is OK, as there is plenty else I can do, but this could take a while.

  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Ok carry on and finish up your work. Great!

  • Do you want me to make it to your map, or to the Out of the box map?

  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Do you want me to make it to your map, or to the Out of the box map?

    huh? i dont understand?  again: no changes to the OOB map. If you want to have something for the modified map just get it to a point where you feel its finished.

  • Hey Imperial, maybe a few map changes won’t work. I’m thinking of only two changes anyway. Like splitting Norway into 2 territories: Norway and Finland. And separating Greece and Italy instead of the collective “Southern Europe,” so Italy can have at least 4 VCs

  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Yes and when we get to Italy we will have to look into that. The Balkans are too big. Poland should be seperate… but that would become a Xeno game and we aint making one! Lets stick to the fact pattern and keep only the historical rules consistent with realism and a map with only a few new colors for Italy. People have to be able to play the varient w/o having to redraw all over the map. Italy and its solution will involve just reassigning some territories to her. Southern europe, balkans, lybia= 10 IPC thats Italy in a nutshell.

  • 10 IPCs? make sure people still wanna play Italy…

  • Well, when we get to that point, I will post my variant for Italy that I have playtested over and over again and I have done away with all bugs. We should focus on getting the rules and other things of that sort worked out first, all the easy stuff can come later.

  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    If germany is at 40 Italy is or cannot be more than 10-15. Italy was in the tank and not even ready for a world war. Thay had no idea what they were doing in WW2… WE could make it 12 so say they can build 4 infantry per turn? … just look at the Soviet Union at 24 IPC… your saying that Italy was even half of the full soviet war time economy?  I have Mark Harrisons “the economics of ww2” and Italy sucks by comparison. They should start with a good sixed navy and army but have a low producing capability.

  • Actually their armed forces weren’t stronger than Russia’s. They didn’t have carriers, their tanks were flawed, etc. But still to balance the game do give them a strong army.

  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    right large army and limited resources to build/replace loses.

    we can incorporate some loan from pappa germany rules when we do lend lease. 12 IPC would be ok for italy

  • Is that 12IPC part of Germany’s income?

    Our rule for for US’s lend lease is free IPCs not part of US’s 42IPC income.

  • I would like to see Italy at least get 12 to 15, but then you would have to change land values

  • 2007 AAR League

    Why don’t we beef up Italy’s African holdings? If Italy can force it’s way into Africa and Trans-Jordan with relative ease that’s 10 IPCs, not including Madagascar. If you leave the land values as they are, Italy will start with 11 but through Africa should be at 21 in a couple turns.

  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    go back to the original idea behind Italy:

    It is offsetted by a lend lease program to the Soviets.

    10 IPC can be loaded to the Soviets by UK/USA and this aid is free and does not reduce the economies.

    the offset is now Germany is worth 10 more IPC so germany does not now goto 30… because now Southern Europe, Lybia, and Balkans are the new Italy.

    net result:

    Germany no longer has S europe, Balkans, Lybia AND stays at 40 IPC

    Italy is now carved out into a nifty 10 IPC producing nation with a strong navy to start.

    The western allies are getting to loan up to 10 IPC to Soviets or even UK to offset Italy.

    If Italy need more money she will have to capture some of Africa.

    Also optionaly we allow germany to loan a limited amount of money to italy 2-5 IPC max.

    Also the Lend Lease to Soviets are carried by special chips under a tranny ( use coins) it can be attacked or intercepted.


    now we have given the Soviets some support because we no longer allow UK /USA  to land in soviet territory

    WE install some kind of submarine warfare allowing germany to have a idea to actually build subs, when before they didnt

    now Italy is carved out and the income loss does not effect germany

  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Italy never owned anything that we have not allready given her. Italy in invaded Albania and attacked greece… for that we can give the the balkans… its not really realistic but its close… lybia was part of italy as well as S europe. Thats it. 10 IPC

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