AARHE: Phase 2: Units


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    This thread is for ideas pertaining to the use of additional units under the auspices of AARHE. Post ideas for extra units here:


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    SS PANZERS
    (Germany only)
    Description: SS Panzers are specialized in repelling enemy advancement and make a considerable reinforcement to the German players defense. Use regular armor painted in black as SS Panzer units. S.S. Panzers cost 8 IPC’s and can only be built in Germany.

    Cost: 8
    Attack: 5
    Defense: 5
    Move: 2

    Setup: Germany receives one unit for free, during the first round only. This unit is brought into play during the Mobilize New Units Phase on the respective powers´ turn.

    MECHANIZED INFANTRY
    Description: Mechanized Infantry represent elite infantry formations during the war. (Buy some halftrack pieces for these)

    Cost: 4
    Attack: 2
    Defense: 2
    Move: 2

    Setup: Each player receives two units for free, during the first round only. This unit is brought into play during the Mobilize New Units Phase on the respective powers´ turn.

    Special Ability: Each of your tanks gives one matching infantry one additional movement allowance and an increased attack capability of 2 or less in the first cycle of combat only. Even if supported by artillery, their attack remains 2. The tank and the infantry unit must leave from the same territory.

    SOVIET SHOCK TROOPS:
    Description: Representing higher echelon infantry forces. (Paint some Soviet infantry heads a bright orange)

    Cost: 6
    Attack: 3
    Defense: 4
    Move: 2

    Setup: The Soviet Union receives one unit for free, during the first round only. This unit is brought into play during the Mobilize New Units Phase on the respective powers´ turn.

    HEAVY ARTILLERY:
    Description: Representing higher caliber field Artillery pieces. (Use AA gun piece)

    Cost: 6
    Attack: 4
    Defense: 2
    Move: 1

    Setup: Germany and Soviet Union each receive one unit for free, during the first round only. This unit is brought into play during the Mobilize New Units Phase on the respective powers´ turn.

    Special Ability: They provide a +1 bonus to each matching attacking infantry like regular infantry or can perform a special attack as follows: It can attack from an adjacent space with a one free preemptive salvo and does not have to move in with other units. If it decides to move and attack then its hits are not preemptive.

    HEAVY TANKS:
    Description: Representing elite heavy and super heavy tank classes. (use painted 1/285 scale tanks for these)

    Cost: 7
    Attack: 4
    Defense: 4
    Move: 2

    Setup: Germany and Soviet Union each receive one unit for free, during the first round only. This unit is brought into play during the Mobilize New Units Phase on the respective powers´ turn.

    Special Ability: Each hit can target enemy armor units first before another unit is taken as a loss. (This includes Artillery and Mechanized Infantry as well as any armored types of units.

    Fast Carriers

    Description: Speedy ships with landing decks from which fighters can take off and land.

    (This is a revised rule for aircraft carriers only, not a new unit)

    Cost: 16
    Attack: 1
    Defense: 3
    Move: 3
    Hits: Takes 2 hits to sink

    Carry Fighters: Just like the box rules.

    Fighter Defense: Just like the box rules.

    Light Carriers (Escort Carriers)
    Cost: 10
    Attack: 0
    Defense: 1
    Move: 2
    Hits: Takes 1 hit to sink

    Setup: Japan and UK each receive one Light carrier unit for free, during the first round only. These free cruiser units are brought into play during the Mobilize New Units Phase on the respective powers´ turn.

    Carry Fighters: Just like the box rules.

    Cruisers
    Description: Multipurpose ships that can fire on incoming enemy planes and conduct shore bombardment. (One can use the battleships from A&A Classic as cruisers.)

    Setup: Germany (in Baltic), Japan, UK, and USA (Pacific) each receive one cruiser unit for free, during the first round only. These free cruiser units are brought into play during the Mobilize New Units Phase on the respective powers´ turn.

    Cost: 16
    Attack: 3
    Defense: 3 (Antiaircraft fire)
    Move: 3
    Hits: Takes 2 hits to sink

    Special Abilities
    Shoot Down Air Units: Whenever an air unit enters a sea zone containing an enemy cruiser, the cruiser fires during the Conduct Opening Fire step of combat. Roll one die for each attacking air unit (but only one cruiser in a sea zone can fire during the opening fire step, even if they are controlled by different powers). For every roll of 1, one attacking air unit is destroyed. This opening fire capability is for the first cycle of combat only and does not cancel the regular roll during the Defending Units Fire step.

    Shore Bombardment: In an amphibious assault, your cruisers may like battleships make a support shot on amphibious assaults on a 2. Each cruiser fires once during the Conduct Opening Fire step against enemy land units in the territory being attacked (the enemy units do not fire back). A cruiser cannot conduct shore bombardment if it was involved in a sea combat prior the amphibious assault.

    Destroyers
    Description: Small, fast warships that hunt submarines.

    (This is a revised rule for destroyers only, not a new unit)

    Cost: 10
    Attack: 2 (3 when an enemy submarine is present)
    Defense: 2 (3 when an enemy submarine is present)
    Move: 2 (3 when supported by a carrier)

    Special Abilities
    Supported by Carriers: When a destroyer move along with an aircraft carrier, the destroyer’s movement is increased to 3. This pairing is on a one-to-one basis. The destroyer and the aircraft carrier unit must leave from and end up in the same sea zone.

    Submarine Disruption: A destroyer cancels the special abilities of submarines. Enemy submarines cannot move freely through a sea zone containing your destroyer. If you have destroyers in combat involing enemy submarines, they attack and defend on a 3. Any casualties of enemy submarines can return fire. Also, enemy submarines cannot submerge while your destroyer is present.

    Shore Bombardment: In an amphibious assault, your destroyers may like battleships make a support shot on amphibious assaults on a 2. Each destroyer fires once during the Conduct Opening Fire step against enemy land units in the territory being attacked (the enemy units do not fire back). A destroyer cannot conduct shore bombardment if it was involved in a sea combat prior the amphibious assault.

    Battleships
    Description: Powerful and nearly indestructible monarchs of the sea.

    (This is a revised rule for battleships only, not a new unit)

    Cost: 20
    Attack: 4
    Defense: 4
    Move: 2

    Special Abilities: All attacks on other naval ships are conducted with preemptive salvos to represent longer-range gunnery. Every combat round they attack in a similar manner. Otherwise they conduct themselves the same as LHTR.

    Naval Fighters
    Description: Representing carrier based torpedo-bombers and dive-bombers. ( use 1/600 scale planes for these)

    Cost: 8
    Attack: 2
    Defense: 2
    Move: 2

    Setup: Japan and USA each receive 2 naval fighters free, during the first round only. These are brought into play during the Mobilize New Units Phase on the respective powers´ turn.

    Special Abilities
    These units can only move from small islands or Carriers and can only attack other naval units. All attacks are preemptive rolls against defending warships prior to the start of the first combat round. After each successive round of combat this advantage is lost.



  • How come Battleship can’t take 2-hits anymore?

    Was there actually Fast Carriers? If so did they carry less than fleet carriers?

    Destroyer
    Attack: 2 (3 when an enemy submarine is present)
    Defense: 2 (3 when an enemy submarine is present)

    Wouldn’t it be strange when “3 destroyers” attack “3 destroyers and 1 submarine”?

    Naval fighters’s preemptive attack seems more logical if they were built-in on Aircraft carriers. But I actually don’t like them built-in as it abstracts logistics of the pacific war.

    We don’t have to use Antiaircraft gun as Heavy Artillery or Costal Defense or whatever :lol:
    You’ve created many new units and require new pieces anyway.

    I still think antiaircraft density needs to be modelled. (Hence it should remain as a unit, albeit non-mobile once deployed to the territory).
    And historically military bases also had flak guns not only production areas no?

    roll one  d6 if you roll a 1 , then you roll again if you roll a 1 the plane is destroyed, if you roll a two the plane has to return to base ( damaged and cant drop its payload) results of 3-6 no effect.

    By the way I love this idea of damaged planes. Quite logical.


  • Moderator

    would you change this to a d10 system? Considering the units you are adding, especially the specialized Infantry, you should at least consider it…

    GG


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    We have to keep things with d6 because are target players are people who allready have and play revised. The changes are only to address (in scale) the severity of ahistorical problems associated with with the game. We dont want to change aspects of the game that dont address other aspects such as d10. The listed pieces are merely a starting point and i do not think more than 3-4 new units will be featured. If we introduced many new units and a d12 system (or d10)  then we would have Advanced Axis and Allies and this project is not that. this is just to make a simple playable varient.


  • Moderator

    Ahh, a simpilier variant? then why add more units that clearly don’t have the same A/D values of Fighters (Shock Troops)? These units will make it more interesting granted, but they require complexity themselves in order to make them historically playable compared to other units…

    GG


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Because the additional units are necessary to complete the holes left by the units that are represented. In fact many of the units are not new thay are just adjustments. We will give the few added units more value. we have not gotten this far yet… so the rules remain to be written to incorporate them in a manner which will give them value. I can only say that they are “on the table” if they can be fit into the varient then some will survive the cut. I think cruisers and Mech infantry are on the “A” list, with SS panzers and heavy tanks right after that.



  • What about;

    PARATROOPERS
    Description: Paratroopers are your nations airborne troops and could be dropped in the country you want to attack, “behind enemy lines”.

    Cost: 3
    Attack:1* on 2 before First round combat
    Defend:2
    Move: 1 * Paratroopers ability only applies when dropped by transport plane. Otherwise like normal infantry movement.
    Special Ability; preemptive attack for the first round of combat (for the surprise factor)

    TRANSPORT PLANE
    Description: Transport planes are your trannies in the sky, but have a far larger reach.
    Cost: 10
    Attack:0
    Defend:1 (or 0)
    Move 8 or 6 like bomber
    Special Ability; able to carry and drop 2 para’s in the combact move or transport 2 infantry or 1 artillery or 1 armor in the non combat move. (from one friendly territory to the other)

    You could use the MB game bombers for these, or just use a bomber with a marker below.


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    This is good. I think paratroopers are a great idea. However a transport plane could also be incorporated with the regular bomber piece ( using it twice 1) in combat 2) in non-combat as transport)


  • Moderator

    I think Paratroopers should be considered “one” with their respective planes and/or gliders… Transport Planes were used as supply carriers to non-hostile areas or transported Paras and if you aren’t going to make Airdropped Lend-Lease, then that element shouldn’t be necessary. If these paras survive combat then they should be allocated back to their home territory, i.e. Britain automatically (if Desired)…

    Paratroopers
    Description: Glider and Aircraft deployed Infantry that can preform devestating attacks against an enemies military infrastructure.
    Cost: 5
    Attack: 1 (2 on first round of combat)
    Defense: 2
    Move: 1(special deployment move; see below)
    Special Ability: Preemptive fire in the first round of Combat.
    Deployment: Paratroopers are considered the Paratroopers themselves as well as the Transport planes that Carry them. After a successful Battle the player has the option of re-deploying them to the Territory they were deployed from. They may not make this move at any other time. Note that they are considered “planes” so they are included in the “AA Fire” Cycle.

    GG


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Ok that looks like a “cut” in movie talk. I like that very much anybody has anything else to add to paratroopers? Air transport plane again can be incorporated into the bomber functions. I think a necessary unit for air would be a naval fighter which is only carrier based plane ideas?


  • Moderator

    thankyou… I aim to please… I forgot to add that Airborne may be deployed up to 3 Spaces away…



  • Paratroops preemptive strike?

    I think of it the other way around.
    Many are dead before they land.

    I reckon they can’t attack in the first round.
    But thats gonna be weird.


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    I dont mind that because they have limited value because their are no supply rules or terrain  modifiers and a unit with an attack value of one being dropped by a bomber is basically nothing so it has to have some hidden value to buy. Surprise is a key factor in this and a +1 represents this well. I dont like the idea of dropped 3 spaces away. At most is should be dropped 2 spaces from any friendly ground unit. Dropping these units as a paratrooper the full range of a bomber is not too historical.



  • If we were to model small scale paradrops it would be a cost not a whole unit (division/corp).
    These small scale drops are not battles but missions like reinforcement or economic attacks.

    How about paartroops inflitrating and attacking ICs so production capacity is reduced next turn lol…

    And I am patiently waiting for comments on my earlier post.  🙂

    I think its weird for destroyers to attack stronger when enemy forces consists of one or more submarines.

    I think AA should hit on a 1 followed by 4. Thats 11.1%. Actually the 10% figure has been said a lot, do we have any references?


  • Moderator

    That is interesting but since we cannot represent their true scale of operation I don’t think it is a wise idea to try to add something that never was achieved… I have never heard of Airborne attacking IC installations… I think that an more interesting ability (since they did disable AA guns) would be:

    Demolition Team: Paratroopers may attack AA Guns before they roll in the pre-battle phase. AA Guns roll as normal against the Paratroopers before they land. If the paratroopers land they can choose to forfeit their preemptive fire ability and can instead attempt to disable the AA Gun. roll one dice per Paratrooper involved. if a 2 or less is rolled, the AA Gun is disabled and may not attack Aircraft involved in the Battle.

    thoughts?

    GG


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    LOL your doing what i typically do… bring up rules from your game and entice us! ahh haa i see it! LMFAO.


  • Moderator

    cool… I rarely cause IL to laugh his… anyways do you like it?

    BTW WW2 is starting in my post count :mrgreen:


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    I have some commando rules for another game. IN this module the aa guns is going to be abtracted into the value of the IC as part of its defense and the “piece” is going to be a new heavy artillery/ coastal defense gun. So we are recycling the existing piece into something more constructive.

    I think those rules are fine for a specific game featuring more battle focus.



  • I don’t understand.
    With direction of the project, historic details and accurate modelling…why would you abstract the antiaircraft guns?
    We are introducing more than 1 new units anyway so we need not recycle. We need new or specially marked pieces either way.

    I think not only production regions had flak guns.
    I think Germany deployed more antiaircraft guns in certain areas as Allies performed more bombing runs.
    I think it is more dangerous to bomb fortified areas.

    If you insist on abstracting on into IC then let put heavy flak (88mm-120mm) into ICs and leave the original piece to represent mobile flak divisions. In which case the heavy flak could hit with (1 on D6) 16.6% while light flak could hit with (1 on D6 followed by 3onD6) 8.3%.

    (And then we’ve still got your idea of damaging but not killing planes…)

    The light flak could cost 3 IPCs.
    The heavy flak should still be purchasable. It is shown as chips under the IC. Cost 5 IPCs. Up to 3.

    I just think its overly abstract if antiaircraft density is left out.



  • @Guerrilla:

    That is interesting but since we cannot represent their true scale of operation I don’t think it is a wise idea to try to add something that never was achieved… I have never heard of Airborne attacking IC installations…

    You’re right. I pulled that out of my ass. Paratroopers attacking factories lacks a little realism.  :lol:


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    With direction of the project, historic details and accurate modelling…why would you abstract the antiaircraft guns?
    We are introducing more than 1 new units anyway so we need not recycle. We need new or specially marked pieces either way.

    ++++++++ so your saying to use a new piece for AA guns? or use the same piece with a “mark” on the aa gun so it can be used as something else?

    I think not only production regions had flak guns.
    I think Germany deployed more antiaircraft guns in certain areas as Allies performed more bombing runs.
    I think it is more dangerous to bomb fortified areas.

    ++++++++ well aa guns can be installed anywhere… i proposed before that in every home territory or in just VC territories their could be an aa gun defense during any flyover of enemy planes. we dont need some unit to represent this do we?

    If you insist on abstracting on into IC then let put heavy flak (88mm-120mm) into ICs and leave the original piece to represent mobile flak divisions. In which case the heavy flak could hit with (1 on D6) 16.6% while light flak could hit with (1 on D6 followed by 3onD6) 8.3%.

    ++++++++I was think along the same lines except this would be the difference in factories vs. VC territories, one being a heavy concentration, while the other being lighter elements of AA flak batteries. I just dont know why these rules regarding aa guns need a damm PIECE, BECAUSE they are largely fixed deployments. the piece to me only represents the idea that the gun can be moved and i dont feel thats enough of a reason to commit to a “piece”

    (And then we’ve still got your idea of damaging but not killing planes…)

    The light flak could cost 3 IPCs.
    The heavy flak should still be purchasable. It is shown as chips under the IC. Cost 5 IPCs. Up to 3.
    I just think its overly abstract if antiaircraft density is left out.

    ++++++++++The trick is whether or not these flak battleries represent a major cost that can be (or should be) brought into the same level as say a “panzer corps” or a major fleet of destroyers… is the cost something that is on the same level as major military expenditures? this will take further reflection… the ideas you have brought up will be appropriate if the answer is YES. lets do some research to get to the truth…



  • Where flak batteries a major cost? Yep. In September '43, about a million people (many of them kids and women, though) were mannintg German AA defences, which used 8,876 of the superb “88” anti-tank/ant-aircraft guns, and 24,500 light AA guns and 7,000 searchlights.

    Of course, the economic loss on the Allies in using many of their best men and most high-tech weapons to bomb German houses and fields (accuracy was terrible, factories extremely hard to destroy) was arguably higher than the cost to teh Germans, but there WAS a cost to the Axis.

    By the way, if we’re searching for realism, allowing bombers to carry paratroops is extremely UN-realistic. Some obsolete bombers were used for paras when there was nothing else, but rarely; and I don’t think useful bombers ever carried paras.



  • @Imperious:

    ++++++++ so your saying to use a new piece for AA guns? or use the same piece with a “mark” on the aa gun so it can be used as something else?

    No I just hope to use the original AA gun piece.

    ++++++++ well aa guns can be installed anywhere… i proposed before that in every home territory or in just VC territories their could be an aa gun defense during any flyover of enemy planes. we dont need some unit to represent this do we?

    Nope I am sugguesting a little chip placed under the IC to represent this. But thats only necessary if you buy my argument that you should be allowed to beef up defenses at ICs.

    ++++++++I was think along the same lines except this would be the difference in factories vs. VC territories, one being a heavy concentration, while the other being lighter elements of AA flak batteries. I just dont know why these rules regarding aa guns need a damm PIECE, BECAUSE they are largely fixed deployments. the piece to me only represents the idea that the gun can be moved and i dont feel thats enough of a reason to commit to a “piece”

    Oh thats from my funny idea of turning it on the side when first built to show its not deployed yet and can’t fire. You then move it in non-combat to the front line and deploy them by turning upright. I guess alternatively we can use something else to show its movement and deployment from the IC to the frontline.

    ++++++++++The trick is whether or not these flak battleries represent a major cost that can be (or should be) brought into the same level as say a “panzer corps” or a major fleet of destroyers… is the cost something that is on the same level as major military expenditures?

    Yeap I haven’t forgotten your arguement that its not at corps level. I hope its not too bad I mean ICs can’t be moved and we have a piece for it too. I am just thinking that AA can be used as a new piece shouldn’t be part of the arguement as we are gonna need more than one since we are introducing several units.



  • @HMS:

    Yep. In September '43, about a million people (many of them kids and women, though) were mannintg German AA defences, which used 8,876 of the superb “88” anti-tank/ant-aircraft guns, and 24,500 light AA guns and 7,000 searchlights.

    Quote the article too so I can hope for the AA piece to remain hehe :lol:

    Though I doubt much of the 1 millon kids and women were on the frontline. Probably mostly at ICs/cities.


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