• I am a newly registered member on this forum (didn’t see any intro section), and was why wondering why some think evacuating Leningrad is a good idea? Honestly my friend and I who normally play allies do not usually consider this strategy for several reasons: Novgorod Is Russia’s only viable in game port and the minor IC, Airbase, and Naval base make it invaluable, also there is the consideration of the major NO given to the Fascist player if he controls Leningrad (5pts per turn I believe). Then there is the consideration of letting German troops go around the north  to Moscow. Historically, Leningrad was a pivotal city and was not to be given up by any means.

    Marshall Zhukov was a major advocate for holding on to Leningrad and we stand firmly behind this belief. Actually in most of our games we have great success with the Soviet Union in this version and their ability to defeat Fascist invaders. We have nothing but the greatest respect for our standard Axis player and his abilities as an officer, therefore we do not believe it to be necessary and actually counterproductive. Obviously strategies are dependent on opponent moves and luck, and we do recognize that history and this game does not perfectly coincide with the real war. However I am interested in hearing from both proponents and opponents of this strategy to asses its validity.

    Sorry if this question has already been addressed on this forum as it seems like it could be a common topic, but I could not find it.

  • '17 '16 '13 '12

    There is no point into getting beat up. You can usually forecast how much power will be brought to bear on Leningrad. You don’t want the red army to be split in two portions that are eliminated one after the other.


  • What ultimately ends up happening if you make Leningrad a fortress, is the German player can simply take all the 2 IPC territories in the south, getting the same bonus for Stalingrad, getting the Caucasus bonus, and opening up the middle east.

    If you never move those units off of Leningrad, and if Germany decides to make a beeline for Moscow (even as late as a I3/G4 DOW) through Eastern Poland, Western Ukraine, and Bryansk, he can get 20 cheap walking units built on Berlin on G1 and G2 (10I+10Arty) to attack Moscow on G7. And he can back those up with motorized units built on G3 and G4 on Berlin. And with the Bulgarian infantry. And with air built on Western Germany or Berlin on G5, armor built on Ukraine on G6, and bombers built on Western Germany or Berlin on G6.

    Yes, you may get an extra 5 IPC for taking Finland on R5. Or 5 on R4 and 11 on R5 if he does an I2/G3 instead of an I3/G4. So you get 5 extra infantry for the defense of Moscow at the price of, what, the 20 pieces you left in Leningrad?

    Since Germany has a) long supply line issues and b) the threat of western europe landings, he has to a) avoid battles where he’s trading pieces with the Soviets and b) travel eastward only as slowly as his western defenses will permit. If you’ve got a huge stack on Leningrad, he’s just going to blow by it and pick it up when you can’t build anything else there because he’s got your capital.

    That’s why people will do a strategic pull back from all forward locations, including Leningrad. If you can make Germany wait until G8, you’ve got your 20 pieces from the Far East back in Moscow and your stack is around 100  pieces strong. That’s a tough nut for him to crack without dedicating more pieces and more expensive pieces that, if your allies are doing their job, are desperately needed to defend the extensive coastline of Europe and Africa.


  • I like to try and use Leningrad as a staging ground for an attack on Norway. Reinforcing the north means that Germany has to send units up there, drawing them away from Moscow for a short while (hopefully long enough to counterattack) and, if you can get Finland and Norway off the Germans then it gives you +11 IPC and costs 10 IPC to the enemy. That’s a 21 IPC swing if it comes off…


  • Haven’t seen too many games where Russia holds Leningrad unless there was a Sea lion attempt. Although the north is important, the southern territories have more value, two ICs, and the oil NO’s. The other thing (that was pointed out) is that if there is a push straight for Moscow your inf in defending Leningrad won’t be able to make it home for the holidays (def your capital). We often see Germany build a couple transports in games to keep England guessing, then an ampib/Luftwaffe attack on northern Russia, so defending it can cost you too many units in a lopsided battle. I also wouldn’t risk a lot of units in Leningrad with a super stack heading to Moscow.

    Don’t get me wrong every game is a little different, if you can fight the Germans up there w/o much loss then do it. Sometimes a fighting retreat followed by a counter attack on their ground units (before they can land air units for def) is the right move. In doing so you can kill some valuable German ground units, and trade Leningrad so he can’t build up there.

    As far as the port in Leningrad, Russia very rarely builds navy in our games unless Germany went Sea lion, they need the mass inf buys for the end game. It does suck for the Germans to use Leningrad as a base of operations. The Luftwaffe still has a long reach from there.


  • I do also move my troops out off Leningrad. Because they are sitting ducks, and are better used in the defence for moscow. A reinforcement from Moscow is 3 terriorires away, but they can been reached from west Germany or Berlin in on turn with transport ships… With a weaker russian economy than the Germans you will loss this battle in the long run…

    In my Group we have made a priority of the Russian cities and territories, after which one is most the importent, to protect, and in which order they have to be retaken…
    1 Moscow
    2 Stalingrad
    3 Ukraine
    4 Caucasus
    5 Arkhangelsk
    6 Leningrad

    The list is made after how close the germans come to Moscow, because if moscow falls then the allies loose the game… I know it really hurts to pull all your troops out of Leningrad but it is necessary. The best thing that can happen for the germans is to kill a lot of russian troops at the begining of the game… Remember to protect your expensive units like artillery, fighters, tac, tanks and ect…


  • I know that giving up Leningrad for the greater good can be a boring game for the Russians, but your #1 objective is too hold Moscow for as long as you can (delay the inevitable strike). Even in games where Moscow falls, if the western allies get to Norway/Finland at about the same time, build minors and start pumping out units and reinforce from England, the next step could be Leningrad where they can also build until Moscow is liberated. If the Germans make a play for Moscow and fail, the game is probably lost for the axis.


  • Ok, thanks for these responses. While I obviously won’t be too quick to cede Leningrad to Germany, I will leave it on the table as a necessary evil that may have to take place as a desperate measure in order to protect Moskva.


  • How about flipping the discussion to the Pacific? I’m still a noob when it comes to the Global game, so I don’t know what people do for India.  Do you evacuate when you see the writing is on the wall (odds of defeat greater than 75-80% with a second wave on the way?)?  I guess it has to depend on Russia’s status and the US threat/Anzac defense posture to stalemate the Pacific, but I’m not quite sure on how to handle this yet. I know I’m still making rook mistakes with Russia, but India is my Pacific weak point right now I think.

    Thoughts?

  • '17 '16 '15

    no expert myself  but I’ve seen where people will retreat their stack towards africa if they think india is a lost cause
    people will do that with the moscow stack also    retreat somewhere else that is

    I think the general consensus is if japan really wants india their’s not much you can do about it
    the japan playbook explains how this is done    I think their is some discussion on counters as well

    it should be on page two here


  • India is very situational.

    Defending gives you a chance to bleed the Japanese ground forces (they are generally starved for ground units), and maybe some air power even with terrible odds (AA guns). Weakening the Japanese can help the allies long term, they need every plane to deal w/US. Max defense of India can put the Japanese (fleet/air) out of position if they go all in allowing the US to build up and make a move.

    Evacuating gives you desperately needed units elsewhere (Africa, Russia, or China where they can be a difference maker), but allows the Japanese to keep their ground units for other attacks, or add to their force w/IC. They may follow you with transport fleet anyway as it is difficult to get slow moving units off the coast.

    A fighting retreat then counter attack might work out, but India generally doesn’t have much of an attack force (mostly inf), and is probably better off defending.

    Sorry wasn’t much help, but much depends on the flow of the game, and how much time and income UK has in the Pac before things get started. If Japan attacks early, or if the UK started the fight UK2 to get NO bonuses etc…. I tend to build mobile units in India, and send much of my Indian forces to China (try to create a meat grinder to bleed Japanese ground units), or Mideast (then to Egypt or Russia). If the Pac fleet survives, it will head to Egypt (except maybe dd & transport) to replace/reinforce Med fleet. I will sacrifice India to gain an edge in Africa, China or Russia, but will try to hold on to India for as long as I can.


  • Situational can make it hard.  If I knew I had a fighting chance (say at least a 30% chance of a win, I would stick it out, but if the Japanese wanted to play a waiting game (so planes could be used elsewhere) and build up for the attack, this fight is not going to be much of a fight.  I guess like Russia, it comes down to just how long you can hold out.  So what is considered a victory for the allies?  If India can hold out till Round 9, do you consider that good for the Allies?  I know that goes hand in hand with holding Russia, but for the experts out there, how long can you hold out and still achieve Allied victory?

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