AARHE: National Units (Phase 1)

[Imperious Leader]

OK how bout we do this:

phase one: just 2 units or goodies for each nation ( both land)
Phase two: same thing ( air)
Phase three: same thing (sea)

Possible advantages:

Soviets:

1. cheaper tanks 2 tanks for 8 IPC
2. Soviet shock armies ( infantry at 2-2 costing 4) get a preemtive attack first round
3. Self-propelled Artillery ( SU series tank destroyers)… hits go against enemy armor ( in one battle)
4. Tactic bonus: on defense in victory cities Soviet infantry gain a +1 modifier
5. Cheaper planes costing -2 ( can buy one per round with discount)
6. katyuska rockets: artillery gets premptive attack in the first round
7. rifle division new unit 1-1 costs 2 IPC can build # = roll of D6

Germany:

1. Stuka Dive Bomber if no enemy planes are defending these fighters can get a +1 attack each round ( preemtive)
2. Tactic bonus: blitzkreig each plane boosts a matching tank +1 at a 1/1 basis.
3. Heavy tanks: allocate your tanks hits to go against enemy tanks ( in one battle)
4. Volkstrum infantry: new unit 1-1 costs 2 IPC can build # = roll of D6
5. U-boat campaign: your subs cost -2 ( limit one pre turn)
6. SS Panzers: new unit: 5-5 moves 2 costs 9 all attacks are preemtive for first round.
7. 88’s german artillery can move 2 spaces and can target other armor as casaulty
8. tank destroyer:all hits can go against enemy armor in one battle where you have tanks.

UK:

1. RAF: home defense +1 defense for fighters over british territories
2. ASW destroyers: increased ability to detect subs
3. Paratroopers: ability to make a # of airdrops
4. commandos: ability to make a selected attack on enemy “piece” and run home?
5. Intelligence: decoded german code ability to reinforce an area under attack with adjacent pieces.

Japan:

1. torpedo bombers
2. super battleships
3. destroyers can carry one infantry ( as transport)
4. bansai/ dug in defenders in orange territories only
5. fanatical infantry fighters ( bushido code)
6. Tactic: night surface action
7. Kamakazi/ banzai attack
8. light carriers ( if japan loses a carrier she can starting building them)

USA:

1. Marines
2. Tactic: Strategic Bombing campaign
3. “blood and guts” tanks can attack and attack again if they have MP left over?
4. Logistics: all american land units can move in non combat even if they had performed combat as long as they are connected territories.
5. liberty ships: Transports cost -2
6. a- bomb
7. essex carriers ( moves 3 carrier) costs -2

[theduke]

wow, that seems overwhelming!

[Imperious Leader]

Well  it can be added in stages over three phases to cover:

1. the new units ideas
2. cover national specific tactic
3. cover all the flavor or each nation in a simplistic way.

I dont think that “fighter” thing for each nation will work as the third option because having just two is simple, while adding just one to cover specific air units seems kinda strange compared to other national unit ideas. I suppose the balance can be covered under Anderssons section of NA’s in phase two.

[theduke]

I dont think that “fighter” thing for each nation will work as the third option because having just two is simple, while adding just one to cover specific air units seems kinda strange compared to other national unit ideas. I suppose the balance can be covered under Anderssons section of NA’s in phase two.

I’m not following you here. having 2 what is too simple? why does 1 fighter advantage per nation seem strange compared to 1 unit and 1 attack advantage per nation? it seems to compliment the other rules rather well to me.

[tekkyy]

Katyusha rockets
Yeah we won’t have it if it wasn’t massed or used enough. Is it true it mainly useful against infantry?

British intelligence (enigma decoder)
Hmmm sometimesI think this Enigma thing is over blown.
“By 1945, almost all German Enigma traffic (Wehrmacht, Kriegsmarine, Luftwaffe, Abwehr, SD, etc.) could be decrypted within a day or two, yet the Germans remained confident of its security” - wikipedia
If it was battle commands then it only needs to be secure for 30minutes.

However, if it was just called British intelligence then thats fine.

Russia: cheap planes through lend-lease (maybe cost 7 instead of 10?)
Not really. Let leave lend-lease to lend-lease eh?

germany: fighters can perform strategic bombing
Are we talking about dive bombs? They are precision attacks not saturation right?

Japan: kamikaze attack (special restrictions to portray it as a last resort)
Last resort tactic shouldn’t be standard I think. So I also think it should be NA.

did other nations even significantly improve range of aircraft after 1942?)
Good question. I want to know too.

IL’s latest long list
Oh I rather wrap up the old list up instead. Some of that stuff is too tactical and prbably wrong scale for the game to include them. But yeah I know you are just brainstorming.

[tekkyy]

Since I am so eager to wrap it up I’ll continue my job of posting the latest set.

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National Units

USSR = Once per turn, 2 ARM can be puchased and placed in Russia for 8 IPC.
Germany = Once per turn per IC, 1 SS can be purchased and placed there for 6 IPCs provided no surface naval units are purchased there.
UK = Once per turn, 1 FTR can be purchased and placed in United Kingdom for 8 IPC.
Japan = Once per turn, 3 INF can be purchased and placed in Japan for 7 IPC.
US = Once per turn per IC, 1 CV can be purchased and placed there for 14 IPC.

National Attack

USSR = Shock troops or Katyuska rockets? either case its opening-fire? Let artillery work in “Katyuska” mode with stronger attack but hit can only affect infantry? So you might waste firepower when not enough enemy infantry
Germany = FTR get +1 attack modifier and each gives 1 ARM +1 attack modifier when enemy FTR are not present.
UK = Fighter defense in UK due to high radar density? Somehow I don’t think there was as many radars in Africa  so don’t want all British territories to have the advantage
Japan = FTR gets +1 attack modifier in naval combat, DD fire in the opening-fire instead of main-round for first cycle of naval combat.
US = INF gets +1 attack modifier in the first cycle of combat of amphibious assault.

[tekkyy]

@Imperious:

5. Cheaper planes costing -2 ( can buy one per round with discount)

Whats this? I thought its the Japanese Zero that was cheapo…

6. SS Panzers: new unit: 5-5 moves 2 costs 9 all attacks are preemtive for first round.

Complicated and annoying but for realism you have to make German tanks strong and expensive.
But yet I am not convinced we should take the path of total units cost revamp.

7. 88’s german artillery can move 2 spaces and can target other armor as casaulty

Are 88’s self propelled? Or was that Russia with self-propelled artillery…
Were 88’s good as AA or something?

1. RAF: home defense +1 defense for fighters over british territories

Nah I don’t think African had many radars. Soon enough everyone had radar anyway so maybe we should look at modelling radar density instead.

4. commandos: ability to make a selected attack on enemy “piece” and run home?

Wrong scale to me. Can’t imagine a commando strike at a whole tank division…

2. super battleships

Oh yeah did you read that website I mentioned before? It claims Iwo (non-Jap) class to be the king.

light carriers ( if japan loses a carrier she can starting building them)

Oooh are Japnese known for light carriers too? They certainly lost carriers in the war.

4. Logistics: all american land units can move in non combat even if they had performed combat as long as they are connected territories.

7. essex carriers ( moves 3 carrier) costs -2

Oh yeah no one answered me directly when I said sure Essex class is not slow but I wasn’t sure 33knots makes it FASTER than the more standard carrier.

[Imperious Leader]

USSR = Shock troops or Katyuska rockets? either case its opening-fire? Let artillery work in “Katyuska” mode with stronger attack but hit can only affect infantry? So you might waste firepower when not enough enemy infantry
Germany = FTR get +1 attack modifier and each gives 1 ARM +1 attack modifier when enemy FTR are not present.
UK = Fighter defense in UK due to high radar density? Somehow I don’t think there was as many radars in Africa  so don’t want all British territories to have the advantage
Japan = FTR gets +1 attack modifier in naval combat, DD fire in the opening-fire instead of main-round for first cycle of naval combat.
US = INF gets +1 attack modifier in the first cycle of combat of amphibious assault.

USSR: i think those siberian troops sure were more of a threat to turning the tide against germany than Katyuskas. I admit Katyuskas are fun toys.  The shock troops idea ( some 500,00 troops and armor and planes) seems more of a larger issue than a single weapon of a few rockets.

UK: UK fighter defense is based on better pilots, and having radar to protect england and other select territories. Africa would not have such a proven defense, but India, Canada, Austrailia and England would.

All else looks good.

[theduke]

I’m starting to think that we should introduce these optional rules in phase 2 (and maybe some in phase 3). Phase 1 doesn’t need any of these national units or attacks, etc…

[Imperious Leader]

WEll then we need something more to finish the books on phase one. can we just add the neutrals rules in ? Then NA’s , new units, national unit discounts, National tactics can go into phase 2?

[tekkyy]

Thats not too bad.

It would then be…

Phase1: Basics (mobilisation, income, team victory condition, game sequence, neutrals)
Phase2: Country specific rules(national unit, attack, advantage, national victory condition, italy, neutrals)
Phase3: Combat details (land, naval, SBR, neutrals)

If so whoever made the threads change the title. (Don’t want to create more threads again and end up with real and non-real threads.)

[theduke]

add to phase 1: AA fire, naval warfare, sub interdiction, defender retreats, simple version of techs (we can’t keep the OOB ones). hopefully i’m not missing anything else.

[tekkyy]

ooh lots of work to be done then
no longer a “finishing off” stage of phase 1

we haven’t looked at naval warfare yet (except for the small change of preemptive plane attack which also goes for land combat)

and we haven’t looked at sub interdiction yet
which involves detection and hits only able to be taken by surface ships

[theduke]

we’ll have to look into preemstive air attacks a little more before we decide to put them into phase 1. I believe we have already agreed on changing naval warfare so subs can’t attack or defend along with surface units.

We have some rough ideas for sub interdiction floating around somewhere in one of these topic boards.

[tekkyy]

wheres IL these days  :?

[Imperious Leader]

Ok what you need?

[Imperious Leader]

Phase1: Basics (mobilisation, income, team victory condition, game sequence, neutrals)
Phase2: Country specific rules(national unit, attack, advantage, national victory condition, italy, neutrals)
Phase3: Combat details (land, naval, SBR, neutrals)

why are neutrals in all three sections?

[tekkyy]

or we should introduce at the end once we sorts everything out

[Imperious Leader]

Yes lets keep neutral for phase two only. For now please complie what we have at this point and we can conclude our Phase one. If we need to add something we can do that after finishing phase two. OK?

[tekkyy]

So we finish off with the National Units list and leave National Attack/Tactics in phase 2.

USSR (Shock troops) = 1 INF gets +1 attack modifier and fire in opening-fire instead of main round in the first cycle of combat. No more than 3 INF can get this bonus per turn.
Germany (Blitzkrieg) = FTR get +1 attack modifier and each gives 1 ARM +1 attack modifier when enemy FTR are not present.
UK (Radar) = FTR gets +1 defense modifier in United Kingdom, Canada, India and Australia.
Japan (Lance Torpedo) = FTR gets +1 attack modifier in naval combat, DD fire in the opening-fire instead of main-round for first cycle of naval combat.
US (Marine)= INF gets +1 attack modifier in the first cycle of combat of amphibious assault.