13L G40 NT Arathorn (Axis) vs. Infrastructure (Allies +13)

[boldfresh]

Infrastructure, i don’t understand why you did an unprovoked DOW on japan with UK pac and anzac when you didn’t even attack?  what am i missing?

[arathorn]

@Boldfresh:

Infrastructure, i don’t understand why you did an unprovoked DOW on japan with UK pac and anzac when you didn’t even attack?  what am i missing?

He did it because he wanted to collect the NO, thinking it to be safe, since he “knew” that USA, Russia and France would enter the war when London would fall on G3 - but then Germany didn’t take London, and suddenly the Allies were in BIG trouble.

[boldfresh]

hmmm ok, seems infra made an incorrect “assumption”.  would that be accurate to say infra?

[Major Major]

no it was still my plan as it was all along to declare war with france and have a blocker.  Even without germany taking britian, I needed the french destroyer to prevent india falling.  I just rushed frances turn and then realized it as i left the house to go to work., Arathorn had taken germanys turns by the time i got back online.  Declaring war with france had absolutely nothing to do with what germany did.  London falling would not have caused france to be at war on japans turn.  USA and Russia will still not be at war.  What am I missing?

[arathorn]

When you DOWed with Anzac, you opened up for Germany waiting and Japan attacking primarily since USA would then not be at war in combat till A4.

I do understand where you’re coming from, but it’s still a tactical mistake, on the same level as forgetting to put up an important fleet block. Since it influenced my decisions and overall plan, I am still leaning toward keeping it as is, as I get to follow up on a tactical blunder. Sometimes we have to suffer the consequences of our mistakes, and even though it’s a friendly atmosphere, we’re still at “war”.

Had we played on board, at a tournament, and someone forgot to declare war, I don’t think that would have been so easily allowed in retrospect after another turn had been played.

Do you want to continue?

[Major Major]

It was not a tactical blunder it was a mental mistake.  If you are saying that you dont believe me that i meant to DOW with France but missed it then you dont understand tactics.  I state again that if you had taken britian it would not have changed that i set my entire pacific set up to use that french dest as a blocker.  WHat you did with germany did not change that situation in any way.  I planned that blocker screen seperate of anything on the europe map.  I do it in most games.  It was my plan to decalre war with anzac and france to keep japan out of india and the dei.  If me not declaring war with france truly yruly affected your german turn, explain to me what you would have done different if france had declared war on japan?

If you consider that a tactical error you are incorrect.  it was a human error.  If you want a win more than a good game the way it was meant to play out.  Then say that now, so i dont waste more of my time.

[arathorn]

@Infrastructure:

It was not a tactical blunder it was a mental mistake.  If you are saying that you dont believe me that i meant to DOW with France but missed it then you dont understand tactics.  I state again that if you had taken britian it would not have changed that i set my entire pacific set up to use that french dest as a blocker.  WHat you did with germany did not change that situation in any way.  I planned that blocker screen seperate of anything on the europe map.  I do it in most games.  It was my plan to decalre war with anzac and france to keep japan out of india and the dei.  If me not declaring war with france truly yruly affected your german turn, explain to me what you would have done different if france had declared war on japan?

If you consider that a tactical error you are incorrect.  it was a human error.  If you want a win more than a good game the way it was meant to play out.  Then say that now, so i dont waste more of my time.

Even if you were to categorise it as a mental mistake and not a tactical one, it doesn’t make a difference - it was a mistake and it was a “move” that you didn’t do that caused you trouble. Such things happen, and it’s a part of the game.

I was going to take out London, but the combo of you declared war with Anzac and not with France caused me to delay it. It was a package deal.

You can check out all of my games that I have played, and you’ll see that I am a lenient guy, who’s reasonable and trying to play a gentleman’s game and be a good sport. But you are throwing accusations and insinuations against me, and there is no reason to be impolite. I’ve treated you with respect, like I try to treat everybody.

Look at what you’ve said, and try to see if that encourages an understanding and accommodating treatment of the issue from my side:

@Infrastructure:

i guess you will win.  i dont like playing this style game.
Luckily there are enough players interested in winning by strategy, not just winning for false status to play against.

This style of game? What are you insinuating?
So I am only interested in playing to win for a false status?
And you’re lucky to have “enough other players” so you don’t have to deal with me?

@Infrastructure:

If you are saying that you dont believe me that i meant to DOW with France but missed it **then you dont understand tactics. **

If you want a win more than a good game the way it was meant to play out.  Then say that now, so i dont waste more of my time.

I don’t understand tactics?
I want a win more than a good game?
Is me placing pressure on you because of my strategy a waste of your time?

Such insults aren’t exactly strong cards to play if you are trying to have me change my mind and let you edit.

[gamerman01]

@Infrastructure:

If me not declaring war with france truly yruly affected your german turn, explain to me what you would have done different if france had declared war on japan?

Couple thoughts on this.  First, the burden should not be on your opponent, who did not make a mistake but denied your request on the basis that the next turn had been done and dice had been rolled.
Second, Arathorn said he could explain it after Russia goes.
Third thought, isn’t this all about a French destroyer that could block an invasion of India?  It is not hard to believe that such a thing could affect the German turn - how aggressive the Axis player wants to be, anticipating that he will be able to take India.  If he allows you now to make a retroactive DOW that blocks off India from falling on this Japan turn, it is not unbelievable that he would have wanted to handle Germany differently

If you consider that a tactical error you are incorrect.  it was a human error.  If you want a win more than a good game the way it was meant to play out.  Then say that now, so i dont waste more of my time.

Type of error does not matter.  When I have a unit on the other side of the board that I don’t usually have, and I forget to move it, I can’t expect my opponent to allow me to move it later 100% of the time.

But this is a tough one.  What it comes down to, though, is that Infrastructure “took his finger off the queen” (chess analogy).  It is common practice in league play to allow changes/edits to your opponent even after he takes his finger off the queen.  But once the next player starts making his move and especially if he has rolled any dice, he has no obligation, not even a gentlemanly one, to grant retroactive changes.  He starts making his move based on the set of facts, the board situation, that is presented him at the beginning of his turn.
Now it would be really nice of Arathorn to grant the change and re-do his Germany turn, but he is under no obligation to do so.  (I haven’t looked at your map or his German turn)  And it is not cheap for him to deny your request.

I have been burned by neglecting to declare war against Japan with France before (allowing the Japanese to ignore my French destroyer the next turn).  You only make that mistake once.

[arathorn]

I think you made the right assessment Gamerman.

Are we continuing Infrastructure?
I could have given you the 2nd bump today, but haven’t done it.

[Major Major]

2 things to say.

Know this anyone who reads this thread;  I would and will always allow an opponent to redo a move like this.  I find it ridiculous and repulsive not to.

Everything arathorn(not even close to deserving the name of that or any Numenorean) has said makes it clear he knows that I made a small mental slip that will cost me the game and he would rather have that win then truly defeat me.  So when I lose this game I will have no distaste in my mouth as I did not lose against a worthy opponent.

[Major Major]

TripleA Move Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.7

Game History

Round: 3

Purchase Units - Russians
            Russians buy 1 armour, 2 artilleries, 5 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Russians
            1 infantry moved from Amur to Korea
                  Russians take Korea from Japanese
            17 infantry moved from Amur to Manchuria
                  Chinese take Manchuria from Japanese

[Major Major]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.7

Game History

Round: 3

Purchase Units - Russians
            Russians buy 1 armour, 2 artilleries, 5 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Russians
            1 infantry moved from Amur to Korea
                  Russians take Korea from Japanese
            17 infantry moved from Amur to Manchuria
                  Chinese take Manchuria from Japanese

Combat - Russians
            Trigger Russians Conquer Japanese Territory By Mongolia: Setting switch to false for conditionAttachment_Mongolia_May_Change_To_Russians_Control_Switch attached to Russians

Non Combat Move - Russians
            2 aaGuns moved from Amur to Manchuria
            1 fighter moved from Amur to Yenisey
            1 fighter moved from Yenisey to Timguska
            1 infantry moved from Tsinghai to Kansu
            1 infantry moved from Tsinghai to Kansu
            1 infantry moved from Kazakhstan to Tsinghai
            1 aaGun moved from Kazakhstan to Tsinghai
            1 fighter moved from Russia to Novgorod
            1 aaGun, 1 artillery and 4 infantry moved from Western Ukraine to Eastern Poland
            3 infantry moved from Ukraine to Bessarabia
            2 infantry moved from Rostov to Ukraine
            1 aaGun and 10 infantry moved from Baltic States to Eastern Poland
            1 aaGun and 3 infantry moved from Novgorod to Baltic States
            1 cruiser moved from 114 Sea Zone to 115 Sea Zone
            3 infantry moved from Russia to Bryansk

Place Units - Russians
            1 artillery and 2 infantry placed in Novgorod
            1 artillery and 2 infantry placed in Ukraine
            1 armour and 2 mech_infantrys placed in Volgograd
            Russians undo move 1.
            Russians undo move 2.
            1 armour, 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry placed in Volgograd
            1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry placed in Novgorod
            1 infantry placed in Russia
            Russians undo move 1.
            Russians undo move 1.
            Russians undo move 1.
            1 mech_infantry placed in Volgograd
            2 artilleries and 1 infantry placed in Ukraine
            1 armour, 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry placed in Novgorod
            2 infantry placed in Russia
            Russians undo move 5.
            Russians undo move 4.
            3 infantry placed in Novgorod
            Russians undo move 4.
            1 armour, 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry placed in Novgorod
            2 infantry placed in Russia

Turn Complete - Russians
            Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 1
                Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 6 Sea Zone. Rolls: 5,1,5,5,6,6,6
            Russians collect 39 PUs (1 lost to blockades); end with 39 PUs total
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Timguska: 1 fighter
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Russians to Yenisey: 1 fighter
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode

[boldfresh]

@Infrastructure:

2 things to say.

Know this anyone who reads this thread;  I would and will always allow an opponent to redo a move like this.  I find it ridiculous and repulsive not to.

Everything arathorn(not even close to deserving the name of that or any Numenorean) has said makes it clear he knows that I made a small mental slip that will cost me the game and he would rather have that win then truly defeat me.  So when I lose this game I will have no distaste in my mouth as I did not lose against a worthy opponent.

infra, i can say that Arathorn is worthy of the title, and i think that he almost certainly would have granted your request had you asked nicely.  when you are the one in the wrong, it almost never pays to demand that things be done.

[arathorn]

TripleA Move Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.7

Game History

Round: 3

Purchase Units - Japanese
            Japanese buy 1 artillery, 3 destroyers and 2 transports; Remaining resources: 6 SuicideAttackTokens; 1 PUs;

Combat Move - Japanese
            1 infantry moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone
            1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 6 Sea Zone to 19 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Jehol to 19 Sea Zone
            2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 19 Sea Zone to 20 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from 20 Sea Zone to Kwangtung
            2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers moved from Kwangsi to Kwangtung
            1 mech_infantry moved from Hunan to Kwangtung
            3 infantry moved from Hunan to Yunnan
            1 infantry moved from Kweichow to Shensi
                  Japanese take Shensi from Chinese
            2 infantry moved from Hopei to Suiyuyan
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 6 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 36 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
            1 destroyer moved from 36 Sea Zone to 43 Sea Zone
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 36 Sea Zone to 43 Sea Zone
            1 battleship, 2 carriers, 2 cruisers, 3 destroyers and 1 fighter moved from 36 Sea Zone to 39 Sea Zone
            1 armour, 3 artilleries and 8 infantry moved from Kwangsi to 36 Sea Zone
            1 armour, 3 artilleries, 8 infantry and 6 transports moved from 36 Sea Zone to 39 Sea Zone
            1 armour, 3 artilleries and 8 infantry moved from 39 Sea Zone to India
            2 bombers, 1 fighter and 2 tactical_bombers moved from Kwangsi to India
            2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers moved from Kwangsi to Yunnan
            1 submarine moved from 36 Sea Zone to 41 Sea Zone

[arathorn]

I need scramble orders for sz39 (India)

You can scramble 2 ftrs and 1 tact.

I have 1 battleship, 2 carriers, 2 cruisers, 3 destroyers and 1 fighter there.

[arathorn]

I have now rolled all the battles except for India. (see attached file)

I will now roll the battle as if you did not scramble, as scrambling would not cause any significant losses to the fleet, and your planes can do more damage against my ground units, giving you a hope of retaking India.

Should you want to scramble instead, I will reroll both battles. Just let me know if you want to scramble.

[arathorn]

File

beforeindia.tsvg

[arathorn]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.7

Game History

Round: 3

Purchase Units - Japanese
            Japanese buy 1 artillery, 3 destroyers and 2 transports; Remaining resources: 6 SuicideAttackTokens; 1 PUs;

Combat Move - Japanese
            1 infantry moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone
            1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 6 Sea Zone to 19 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Jehol to 19 Sea Zone
            2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 19 Sea Zone to 20 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from 20 Sea Zone to Kwangtung
            2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers moved from Kwangsi to Kwangtung
            1 mech_infantry moved from Hunan to Kwangtung
            3 infantry moved from Hunan to Yunnan
            1 infantry moved from Kweichow to Shensi
                  Japanese take Shensi from Chinese
            2 infantry moved from Hopei to Suiyuyan
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 6 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 36 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
            1 destroyer moved from 36 Sea Zone to 43 Sea Zone
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 36 Sea Zone to 43 Sea Zone
            1 battleship, 2 carriers, 2 cruisers, 3 destroyers and 1 fighter moved from 36 Sea Zone to 39 Sea Zone
            1 armour, 3 artilleries and 8 infantry moved from Kwangsi to 36 Sea Zone
            1 armour, 3 artilleries, 8 infantry and 6 transports moved from 36 Sea Zone to 39 Sea Zone
            1 armour, 3 artilleries and 8 infantry moved from 39 Sea Zone to India
            2 bombers, 1 fighter and 2 tactical_bombers moved from Kwangsi to India
            2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers moved from Kwangsi to Yunnan
            1 submarine moved from 36 Sea Zone to 41 Sea Zone

Combat - Japanese
            Battle in Kwangtung
                Japanese attack with 2 fighters, 2 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 2 tactical_bombers
                British defend with 1 harbour and 2 infantry
                Japanese win, taking Kwangtung from UK_Pacific with 2 fighters, 2 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 2 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
                Casualties for British: 2 infantry
            Battle in 35 Sea Zone
                Japanese attack with 1 fighter, 1 submarine and 1 tactical_bomber
                ANZAC defend with 1 destroyer
                Japanese win with 1 fighter, 1 submarine and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8
                Casualties for ANZAC: 1 destroyer
            Battle in 43 Sea Zone
                Japanese attack with 1 destroyer, 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber
                British defend with 1 destroyer
                Japanese win, taking 43 Sea Zone from Neutral with 1 destroyer, 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8
                Casualties for British: 1 destroyer
            Battle in Yunnan
                Japanese attack with 2 fighters, 3 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers
                Chinese defend with 3 infantry
                Japanese win with 2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
                Casualties for Japanese: 3 infantry
                Casualties for Chinese: 3 infantry
            Battle in 41 Sea Zone
                Japanese attack with 1 submarine
                British defend with 1 transport
                Japanese win, taking 41 Sea Zone from Neutral with 1 submarine remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7
                Casualties for British: 1 transport
            Battle in India
                Japanese attack with 1 armour, 3 artilleries, 2 bombers, 1 fighter, 8 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers
                ANZAC defend with 1 fighter; British defend with 1 aaGun, 1 airfield, 1 fighter, 1 harbour, 5 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber; UK_Pacific defend with 1 factory_major
                Japanese captures 24PUs while taking UK_Pacific capital
                Japanese converts factory_major into different units
                Japanese win, taking India from UK_Pacific with 1 armour, 3 artilleries, 2 bombers, 4 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 29
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 fighter and 4 infantry
                Casualties for ANZAC: 1 fighter
                Casualties for British: 1 aaGun, 1 fighter, 5 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber

Non Combat Move - Japanese
            2 tactical_bombers moved from India to 39 Sea Zone
            2 bombers moved from India to Kwangsi
            1 fighter moved from 43 Sea Zone to 39 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from 43 Sea Zone to Kwangsi
            1 fighter moved from 36 Sea Zone to Kwangsi
            2 fighters moved from Kwangtung to Kwangsi
            2 tactical_bombers moved from Kwangtung to Kwangsi
            3 artilleries moved from Hunan to Kwangsi
            1 artillery moved from Hunan to Kwangsi
            1 transport moved from 6 Sea Zone to 19 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from Jehol to 19 Sea Zone
            2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 19 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from 36 Sea Zone to Kwangsi
            3 infantry moved from Jehol to Anhwe
            1 aaGun moved from Jehol to Anhwe
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Yunnan to Suiyuyan
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Yunnan to Kwangsi
            1 battleship, 1 carrier and 1 destroyer moved from 6 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 35 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone

Place Units - Japanese
            3 destroyers and 2 transports placed in 6 Sea Zone
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Japanese from 6 Sea Zone: 1 destroyer
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Japanese to 36 Sea Zone: 1 destroyer
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            1 artillery placed in Japan

Turn Complete - Japanese
            Japanese collect 33 PUs; end with 58 PUs total
            Objective Japanese 3 Control Honolulu Or Sydney Or Calcutta Or Western United States: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 63 PUs
            Objective Japanese 1 Trade With America: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 10 PUs; end with 73 PUs

[arathorn]

The map posted is the valid map if you decided to not scramble.
As said, should you want to scramble instead, 1 or more planes, let me know, and I will immediately reroll the sz battle and then the India battle, and do my NCM over right away. Should be only minor tweaks.

[Major Major]

I indeed would have scrambled the tact bomber.

But I must say that the first round of dice minus your bombardments and my tact should stand.
If you disagree lets ask gamerman or jen for a decision.