13L G40.2 Gamerman01 (Allies +9) vs. Jeff28 (Axis)


  • Again, since I disagreed with your casualty choice assumption for me in Libya, you certainly have the right to continue your attack with the Italians.  Just roll it on the forum here, and if you don’t know how to do that I can help you.  Then we could edit for the results.

    Or maybe you were going to hit it with the Germans and you were giving me the benefit of max defense knowing that.  Well if that’s the case you should be happy because I have less defense there now.


  • How would you have known you’d get those def hits? You were only supposed to get one. Of course you’d choose max def for the second round of my attack with Italy?


  • @Jeff28:

    How would you have known you’d get those def hits? You were only supposed to get one. Of course you’d choose max def for the second round of my attack with Italy?

    Damn it, Jeff

    I KNOW I wouldn’t have known how my defense did when choosing my casualty.  I would have taken the mech off.  It really ticks me off that you’re trying to justify choosing my heavy bomber over my worthless mech when you presumed my casualty choice without asking me.

    WHY did you presume my casualty choice?  That ain’t cool, man.  You were too eager to take off my heavy bomber.

    I wouldn’t have taken my heavy bomber off precisely because then you could retreat.  I would make you continue until you could get it.  I don’t look at things the way you do (1 expected hit in defense).  I consider that I COULD have scored THREE hits on defense.

    You know, I’m getting tired of your pickiness.  You picked at my ranking system, and you criticized me for changing a purchase when I was still doing my combat move.

    Yet you are the one who wanted to go back SEVERAL rounds to change a significant noncom in that game with Bold, after seeing what he did with Italy?!

    Finally, what the hell?  This increases your odds of wiping my remaining units on Libya because I wanted to take off the mech first.

    Once again HOW DARE YOU tell me I would have taken off the heavy bomber?

    This makes me mad.


  • @Jeff28:

    Of course you’d choose max def for the second round of my attack with Italy?

    Oh, I kind of overlooked this at first.

    No, I would NOT necessarily choose max defense in the second round with Italy.  I probably would, though.

    Point is, DO NOT ASSUME CASUALTIES FOR PEOPLE WHEN BOMBERS, ESPECIALLY HEAVY BOMBERS ARE INVOLVED and there is INFANTRY sitting there too.  There’s not that much difference in defense value.

    Do you really expect a guy won’t care when you only score one hit against 3 units, one of which is infantry, and then retreat?

    You lose your rights when you don’t wait for a casualty choice with a heavy bomber on the ground.  You broke the rules of the game.  The rules require that you wait for my casualty choice before rolling the defense roll.  It is unfair of you to challenge me that I wouldn’t have taken mech off first knowing the defense hit twice, because you shouldn’t have rolled it in the first place.

    When I told you I would have taken off mech first when seeing you only scored one hit, I was being honest in saying that’s what I would have taken off, even not knowing my defense roll.

    But you screwed all this up by PRESUMING and ROLLING when you shouldn’t have.

    Like I said, damn it Jeff.  Play by the rules.


  • Surely you will see my point and leave my heavy bomber there.

    Good gracious you can kill it with the Germans anyway.

    Or shall I bring in a moderator who will most certainly tell you that you were WRONG to assume my casualty choice without waiting and that you are WRONG to refuse my change now.


  • I have had great patience with you.  I told you I wouldn’t bump you when you had bit off more than you could chew.  I am tired of re-orienting myself to this game every 3-5 days when you finally make a move.  And now you’re being unsportsmanlike.

    I will certainly be bumping you at 72 hours each time now.  This game was decided when the Russians started pushing back.  It’s a no doubter now.

    Please make the G10 or resign.


  • @Jeff28:

    Bad play + bad dice isn’t getting it done in this one.

    This was NOT classy.

    So it’s because you played bad and I supposedly was much luckier than you that you are losing?

    You give your opponent no credit whatsoever.


  • And in a game where you just admitted you’re “not getting it done” you choose to take a stand on a casualty choice that YOU made that I should have made?

    Oh my goodness.  This is too much.


  • Bump #1


  • Sorry bad week for me at work. I will probably be off line until the weekend after this move.

    Thanks for your patience,
    –Jeff


  • I forgot we were having this issue, been working too much.

    I don’t understand your argument. I assumed I would do the follow up attack rd 2 as I was a huge favorite so I did std max defense. Then you got the unexpected 2 def hits. So I chose to retreat. I was not intending to retreat when I chose your bomber. You want me to leave your bombers to the end of battles where you are a big underdog?

    I mean it was a 99% percent battle I was doing on autopilot that got diced. You want me to give you causality choices at every little battle? This game is slow enough as it is.

    I mean isn’t it unfair with knowledge of the retreat to then choose your casuality now with perfect hindsight?

    If you want to go back to the point of the attack to choose your casualty and re-roll from there that is fine with me.


  • When bombers are on the ground, especially heavy bombers, it is not cool to hit it for one round, take off the bomber without asking, and then retreat.  How do you not understand that?

    I have such a comfortable lead in this game I am thinking about letting you have your way.  I am mainly upset because of the principle of the thing.

    I am online VERY regularly and waiting for a casualty choice is pretty much required in a situation like that.

    It definitely felt cheap, and I’m very confident most players would adamantly agree.


  • The 99% odds are not really relevant.

    You scored only ONE hit.  If I take off the bomber, then you have won your prize and can just retreat.

    I told you I would have lost the bomber even without knowing the defense roll, but you refuse to listen to me or believe me, and that’s upsetting.  I guess you really just don’t understand the rationale.

    Basically, I want to force you to keep attacking to get the bomber.

    That mech is WORTHLESS to me in its position.  The difference between the bomber defense and the mech defense is tiny.  I don’t understand why it’s so hard for you to believe that I would have taken the mech off first.

    And as I already said before but you apparently don’t understand -

    THE ONLY REASON I’M PUT IN THIS SITUATION WHERE YOU CAN ACCUSE ME OF USING 20/20 HINDSIGHT IS BECAUSE YOU ROLLED DICE THAT YOU SHOULDN’T HAVE.  That kind of ticks me off.

  • '12

    @Gamerman01:

    When bombers are on the ground, especially heavy bombers, it is not cool to hit it for one round, take off the bomber without asking, and then retreat.� How do you not understand that?

    I have such a comfortable lead in this game I am thinking about letting you have your way.� I am mainly upset because of the principle of the thing.

    I am online VERY regularly and waiting for a casualty choice is pretty much required in a situation like that.

    It definitely felt cheap, and I’m very confident most players would adamantly agree.

    i don’t think jeff meant anything underhanded…

    however, jeff, you really must allow the other player to choose casualties unless you intend to roll the battle to completion and you are certain you are going to wipe out all units.  that is a circumstance when it is ok to just give max defense.  ALTHOUGH, i had a big blowup with a certain idiot named emperor mollari, where i gave him max defense in a huge fleet battle and when i killed his entire fleet with about 20 battleships remaining, he insisted that because i had not asked him for casualties, we had to go back to round 1 and redo the battle.  now THAT is BS.

    however, to attack, choose the opponent’s casualties, then retreat before the battle is over - you most definitely open yourself up to your opponent saying they would have taken casualties differently.  in which case, as gamer suggested, you could choose to continue the battle or just allow them to switch out the casualties as desired.


  • Allweneedislove has a policy that he uses that if he chooses casualties for his opponent to speed up the game and his opponent doesn’t like the casualty choice, the opponent has the right to demand a re-do and re-roll.  I’m not saying that’s what we should do - my point is that players do NOT choose casualties for their opponents.  If they DO, they give them an advantage (demanding a re-roll or whatever).

    Just ask a few other players if you don’t believe me.  I could make a poll and I bet you anything the vast majority of players would agree that they would NOT be happy if this was done to them.  So not cool.

  • '12

    @Gamerman01:

    Allweneedislove has a policy that he uses that if he chooses casualties for his opponent to speed up the game and his opponent doesn’t like the casualty choice, the opponent has the right to demand a re-do and re-roll.  I’m not saying that’s what we should do - my point is that players do NOT choose casualties for their opponents.  If they DO, they give them an advantage (demanding a re-roll or whatever).

    Just ask a few other players if you don’t believe me.  I could make a poll and I bet you anything the vast majority of players would agree that they would NOT be happy if this was done to them.  So not cool.

    gamer, i’m sure you remember the EM debacle even better than me, and it is seared in my memory.  :lol:


  • Again, as I said before, you should actually be HAPPY that I’m taking off the mech first, because either your Italians can finish the job with less Allied defense, and/or the Germans can.

    I’m actually weakening my position.

    The fact that you’re resisting tells me that you really wanted to take out my heavy bomber and then retreat.  Well, I wouldn’t have taken the heavy bomber off first, and I’m tired of you calling me a liar by saying “well hindsight’s 20/20”.

    Take off the mech, and either continue the attack with the Italians by using the forum dice roller (as I said before, I can help) or do G10 and kill them with the Germans.  You have air in range and everything.

    The fact that I am having to say all these things over and over again tells me you’re maybe not even reading or comprehending what I’m saying??

  • '12

    @Boldfresh:

    @Gamerman01:

    Allweneedislove has a policy that he uses that if he chooses casualties for his opponent to speed up the game and his opponent doesn’t like the casualty choice, the opponent has the right to demand a re-do and re-roll. �I’m not saying that’s what we should do - my point is that players do NOT choose casualties for their opponents. �If they DO, they give them an advantage (demanding a re-roll or whatever).

    Just ask a few other players if you don’t believe me. �I could make a poll and I bet you anything the vast majority of players would agree that they would NOT be happy if this was done to them. �So not cool.

    gamer, i’m sure you remember the EM debacle even better than me, and it is seared in my memory.� �:lol:

    so i do not think it is valid to say that when you have given your opponent max defense in a battle where they are rolling to completion because they are 100.1% to win with a huge number of units remaining, that they have the right to send you back to round 1 to reroll.  only a true idiot would do that.  and as i recall, he then chose the very same casualties in the first round that i gave him, and would have ever round thereafter had we continued to play on.   :roll:


  • OK, but back to the issue at hand that seems to be holding up this game.

    Jeff, all you’ve done is not believe me when I say I wanted to lose mech first, even if I didn’t know my defense roll (given that you only scored 1 hit)

    Now are you going to accept my solution that you remove the mech and restore the heavy bomber and play the Italian attack from there (or retreat), or what do you propose?

    You can’t tell me what casualty choice to take off.  If I wanted to take the FIGHTER off first, that’s my prerogative.  If you haven’t figured it out by now, I demand the right to choose my own casualties, as stipulated by the rules of A&A.


  • I am reading and comprehending it.

    I had pure motives at the time. I don’t think I did anything wrong. I was a giant favorite to kill both air units in like the first round. I got diced.

    As I said it seems unfair to use hindsight now. I can see your point but I made all my decisions using common sense.

    I think we should re-roll it here from your decision point, to be sure you’d really lose the mech instead of the bomber.

    I wouldn’t have personally without knowledge of the defense roll, knowing a second round of attack is coming. But you say you would have.

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