13L G40.2 Eggman (+3) v Gamerman01, game 2

[Eqqman]

@Gamerman01:

And then the convoy raiding went and decimated my income with good rolls, just to rub it in…

That actually set a new record for me.  Usually the Italian player skips SZ97 in favor of hitting the French fleet and finds themselves left with 7 IPC for I2.

[gamerman01]

OK, turning my sights back to this one now…

[gamerman01]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.5

Game History

Round :2

Politics - Germans

Purchase Units - Germans
            Germans buy 1 carrier, 1 destroyer, 7 infantry, 3 mech_infantrys and 1 submarine; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Germans
            1 fighter moved from Western Germany to 109 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Western Germany to 109 Sea Zone
            2 bombers moved from Western Germany to 109 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 111 Sea Zone to 109 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from France to Southern France
            1 infantry moved from France to Normandy Bordeaux
            1 armour moved from France to Normandy Bordeaux
            1 mech_infantry moved from France to Normandy Bordeaux
            1 infantry moved from Western Germany to Holland Belgium
            1 cruiser moved from 115 Sea Zone to 113 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Baltic States to Novgorod
            1 infantry moved from Baltic States to Novgorod
            1 armour moved from Eastern Poland to Belarus
                  Germans take Belarus from Russians
            1 infantry moved from Bessarabia to Western Ukraine
                  Germans take Western Ukraine from Russians
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Western Germany to Holland Belgium
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Western Germany to Normandy Bordeaux
            1 infantry moved from Finland to Karelia
                  Germans take Karelia from Russians
            1 infantry moved from Finland to Vyborg
                  Germans take Vyborg from Russians
            1 transport moved from 115 Sea Zone to 114 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Germany to 114 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Germany to 114 Sea Zone
            2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 114 Sea Zone to 115 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from 115 Sea Zone to Novgorod
            1 infantry moved from 115 Sea Zone to Novgorod
            1 fighter moved from Romania to Novgorod
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Romania to Novgorod
            1 armour moved from Belarus to Novgorod
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Poland to Novgorod
            1 mech_infantry moved from France to Southern France
            1 fighter moved from Southern Italy to Southern France
            1 fighter moved from Western Germany to Southern France
            1 fighter moved from Western Germany to Holland Belgium
            1 mech_infantry moved from France to Holland Belgium

Combat - Germans
            Battle in Novgorod
                Germans attack with 1 armour, 1 fighter, 4 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers
                Russians defend with 1 airfield, 1 factory_minor, 1 harbour and 5 infantry
                Germans win, taking Novgorod from Russians with 1 armour, 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 9
                Casualties for Germans: 2 infantry
                Casualties for Russians: 5 infantry
            Battle in Southern France
                Germans attack with 2 fighters, 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry
                French defend with 1 factory_minor, 1 harbour and 1 infantry
                Germans win, taking Southern France from French with 2 fighters, 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for French: 1 infantry
            Battle in Normandy Bordeaux
                Germans attack with 1 armour, 1 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
                French defend with 2 artilleries, 1 factory_minor and 1 harbour
                Germans win, taking Normandy Bordeaux from French with 1 armour, 1 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8
                Casualties for French: 2 artilleries
            Battle in Holland Belgium
                Germans attack with 1 fighter, 1 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
                French defend with 1 infantry
                Germans win, taking Holland Belgium from French with 1 fighter, 1 mech_infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
                Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry
                Casualties for French: 1 infantry
            Battle in 109 Sea Zone
                Germans attack with 2 bombers, 1 fighter, 1 submarine and 1 tactical_bomber
                French defend with 1 cruiser; British defend with 1 battleship and 1 cruiser
                Units damaged: 1 battleship owned by the British
                retreated to 109 Sea Zone
                British win with 1 battleship and 1 cruiser remaining. Battle score for attacker is -15
                Casualties for Germans: 1 fighter, 1 submarine and 1 tactical_bomber
                Casualties for French: 1 cruiser

Non Combat Move - Germans
            1 bomber moved from 109 Sea Zone to Western Germany
            1 bomber moved from 109 Sea Zone to Western Germany
            1 fighter moved from Southern France to Southern Italy
            1 fighter moved from Novgorod to Baltic States
            5 infantry moved from Finland to Vyborg
            1 infantry moved from Romania to Eastern Poland
            2 artilleries moved from Romania to Eastern Poland
            3 aaGuns, 3 artilleries and 9 infantry moved from Poland to Eastern Poland
            3 aaGuns and 7 infantry moved from Germany to Poland
            1 infantry moved from Germany to Poland
            1 infantry moved from Western Germany to Germany
            5 armour moved from France to Yugoslavia
            1 mech_infantry moved from France to Yugoslavia
            1 artillery moved from France to Northern Italy
            1 artillery moved from France to Northern Italy
            1 artillery moved from France to Western Germany
            1 armour moved from Romania to Eastern Poland
            1 armour moved from Bulgaria to Eastern Poland
            3 infantry moved from Bulgaria to Romania
            1 infantry moved from Eastern Poland to Bessarabia
            1 infantry moved from Bulgaria to Romania
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Novgorod to Eastern Poland
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Novgorod to Baltic States
            1 submarine moved from 106 Sea Zone to 103 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from Holland Belgium to Romania
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Normandy Bordeaux to Western Germany
            1 fighter moved from Southern France to Western Germany
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Holland Belgium to Western Germany

Place Units - Germans
            1 carrier and 1 destroyer placed in 113 Sea Zone
            1 submarine placed in 112 Sea Zone
            7 infantry and 3 mech_infantrys placed in Germany

Turn Complete - Germans
            Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 0
                Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 125 Sea Zone. Rolls: 5,6
            Germans collect 50 PUs; end with 50 PUs total
            Trigger Germans 5 Swedish Iron Ore: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 55 PUs
            Objective Germans 2 Control Novgorod Or Volgograd Or Russia: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 60 PUs

[gamerman01]

Man, this is not a good start
The dice are DESTROYING Euro-Axis in fleet/air battles!

[gamerman01]

If you want the French cruiser instead of the British one, feel free to edit

[Eqqman]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.5

Game History

Round :2

Purchase Units - Russians
            Russians buy 4 artilleries and 8 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Russians
            1 armour moved from Northwest Persia to Iraq
            1 mech_infantry moved from Northwest Persia to Iraq
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Caucasus to Iraq
            2 fighters moved from Caucasus to Iraq
            1 infantry moved from Northwest Persia to Iraq
            1 infantry moved from Caucasus to Northwest Persia
            1 infantry moved from Smolensk to Belarus
                  Russians take Belarus from Germans
            1 infantry moved from Archangel to Novgorod
            1 infantry moved from Archangel to Novgorod
            1 artillery moved from Archangel to Novgorod
            1 infantry moved from Archangel to Novgorod
            1 infantry moved from Archangel to Novgorod
            1 infantry moved from Archangel to Novgorod
            1 artillery moved from Bryansk to Western Ukraine
            1 infantry moved from Bryansk to Western Ukraine
            1 infantry moved from Bryansk to Western Ukraine
            1 submarine moved from 114 Sea Zone to 115 Sea Zone

Combat - Russians
            Battle in Novgorod
                Russians attack with 1 artillery and 5 infantry
                Germans defend with 1 airfield, 1 armour, 1 factory_minor, 1 harbour and 2 infantry
                    Russians roll dice for 1 artillery and 5 infantry in Novgorod, round 1 :  1/6 hits
                    Germans roll dice for 1 armour and 2 infantry in Novgorod, round 1 :  2/3 hits
                    2 infantry owned by the Russians and 1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Novgorod
                    Russians roll dice for 1 artillery and 3 infantry in Novgorod, round 2 :  3/4 hits
                    Germans roll dice for 1 armour and 1 infantry in Novgorod, round 2 :  1/2 hits
                    1 infantry owned by the Russians , 1 infantry owned by the Germans and 1 armour owned by the Germans lost in Novgorod
                Russians win, taking Novgorod from Germans with 1 artillery and 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for Germans: 1 armour and 2 infantry
                Casualties for Russians: 3 infantry
            Battle in Western Ukraine
                Russians attack with 1 artillery and 2 infantry
                Germans defend with 1 infantry
                    Russians roll dice for 1 artillery and 2 infantry in Western Ukraine, round 1 :  0/3 hits
                    Germans roll dice for 1 infantry in Western Ukraine, round 1 :  0/1 hits
                    Russians roll dice for 1 artillery and 2 infantry in Western Ukraine, round 2 :  1/3 hits
                    Germans roll dice for 1 infantry in Western Ukraine, round 2 :  0/1 hits
                    1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Western Ukraine
                Russians win, taking Western Ukraine from Germans with 1 artillery and 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry
            Battle in Iraq
                Russians attack with 1 armour, 2 fighters, 1 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
                Neutral_Axis defend with 3 infantry
                    Russians roll dice for 1 armour, 2 fighters, 1 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Iraq, round 1 :  5/6 hits
                    Neutral_Axis roll dice for 3 infantry in Iraq, round 1 :  0/3 hits
                    3 infantry owned by the Neutral_Axis lost in Iraq
                Russians win, taking Iraq from Neutral_Axis with 1 armour, 2 fighters, 1 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 9
                Casualties for Neutral_Axis: 3 infantry
            Battle in 115 Sea Zone
                Russians attack with 1 submarine
                Germans defend with 1 battleship and 1 transport
                    Russians roll dice for 1 submarine in 115 Sea Zone, round 1 :  0/1 hits
                    Germans roll dice for 1 battleship and 1 transport in 115 Sea Zone, round 1 :  1/1 hits
                    1 submarine owned by the Russians lost in 115 Sea Zone
                Germans win with 1 battleship and 1 transport remaining. Battle score for attacker is -6
                Casualties for Russians: 1 submarine

Non Combat Move - Russians
            2 fighters moved from Iraq to Egypt
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Iraq to Egypt
            1 aaGun moved from Bryansk to Ukraine
            1 aaGun moved from Bryansk to Ukraine
            2 artilleries and 6 infantry moved from Russia to Bryansk
            2 aaGuns and 1 infantry moved from Archangel to Smolensk

Place Units - Russians
            1 artillery and 2 infantry placed in Ukraine
            3 artilleries and 6 infantry placed in Russia

Turn Complete - Russians
            Russians collect 35 PUs; end with 35 PUs total
            Trigger Russians 1 Lend Lease: Russians met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 40 PUs
            Objective Russians 2 Spread Of Communism: Russians met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 43 PUs

Production/PUs Summary :

Germans : 45 / 60
    Russians : 35 / 43
    Japanese : 30 / 42
    Americans : 52 / 53
    Chinese : 9 / 15
    British : 26 / 32
    UK_Pacific : 21 / 21
    Italians : 16 / 6
    ANZAC : 14 / 16
    French : 8 / 0
    Dutch : 3 / 0
    Mongolians : 0 / 0
    Neutral_Axis : 0 / 0
    Neutral_Allies : 6 / 0
    Neutral_True : 18 / 0

Dice Statistics:

Total
            1 was rolled 10 times
            2 was rolled 2 times
            3 was rolled 8 times
            4 was rolled 4 times
            5 was rolled 3 times
            6 was rolled 7 times
        Average roll : 3.265
        Median : 3.000
        Variance : 1.576
        Standard Deviation : 1.255
        Total rolls : 34

Neutral_Axis Combat
            3 was rolled 1 times
            4 was rolled 1 times
            6 was rolled 1 times
        Average roll : 4.333
        Median : 4.000
        Variance : 1.500
        Standard Deviation : 1.225
        Total rolls : 3

Germans Combat
            1 was rolled 2 times
            3 was rolled 3 times
            4 was rolled 1 times
            6 was rolled 2 times
        Average roll : 3.375
        Median : 3.000
        Variance : 1.143
        Standard Deviation : 1.069
        Total rolls : 8

Russians Combat
            1 was rolled 8 times
            2 was rolled 2 times
            3 was rolled 4 times
            4 was rolled 2 times
            5 was rolled 3 times
            6 was rolled 4 times
        Average roll : 3.087
        Median : 3.000
        Variance : 1.318
        Standard Deviation : 1.148
        Total rolls : 23

[Eqqman]

I’m not sure how I misunderstood your comment in your game with Jeff28.  You said the Allies may need to rely on sub-optimal attacks.  That means you are counting on luck by definition.

[gamerman01]

@Eggman:

I’m not sure how I misunderstood your comment in your game with Jeff28.  You said the Allies may need to rely on sub-optimal attacks.  That means you are counting on luck by definition.

Look at it another way.  If the Allies won’t engage the Axis unless they have >50% odds in a battle, then Japan and Germany can remain strong, and focus more powerful attacks at their targets.

For example, on UK1 if you scramble into a 99% battle and with your 3 planes it’s still a 97% (or 3% for UK), that does not mean it’s a bad idea to scramble.  If you scramble 3 planes and take down 2 of Germany’s, that’s 2 less planes Germany has to deal with not only the UK, but the USSR.

It’s like the way the Fellowship attacked the cave troll in the Fellowship of the Ring movie.  One member of the fellowship was no match for the cave troll, but multiple smaller members distracting the troll and perhaps taking some hits allowed the other members to have an easier time.

In short, an effective allied strategy is to have each member take their licks, “taking one for the team”.  This is what wears down the Japanese and German war machines.  I’m not saying that you want to continually get the worst of the trades.  I’m saying you can’t be afraid of engaging Japan and Germany in some sub-optimal trades because you will weaken them for the other allies in doing so.

[gamerman01]

In the Pacific, for example, if ANZAC and USA are always afraid of sacrificing anything, Japan can get her way and does not get weakened.  They have to “get their hands dirty”.  Like the 2 fighters I flew to the Phillipines against Jeff.  They took out a couple of very key infantry.  If I hold the planes back and just keep trying to build up, meanwhile Japan has extra infantry and may be successful in taking down a target, and I don’t know what that target will be.  Those 2 infantry could make the difference in taking India and be a game-decider.  The American air couldn’t make it to India in time to defend, but they can help the Allied cause tremendously by taking out 1-2 Japanese ground units, which are scarce.

Same principle goes for Japanese destroyers.  They’re in short supply.  But if the Allies swarm, Japan can’t swat all the gnats, and will take a lot of shots.  Just keep watching, playing, and learning, friend  :-)

[gamerman01]

You could say that everyone “counts on luck”.  I sure didn’t expect to get mowed down in Z97 and Z109, doing little to no damage whatsoever.  If the dice don’t cooperate, it doesn’t matter what you’re doing.

Trust me, I know what I’m talking about.  I’ve played for years, and consistently win more than 80% of my games.  And if you don’t watch it, I’m going to win this one too, even with abyssmal dice in big fleet battles.  I am carving up Russia, and I don’t think you’ll stop me.  :-)

[Eqqman]

@Gamerman01:

Trust me, I know what I’m talking about.  I’ve played for years, and consistently win more than 80% of my games.  And if you don’t watch it, I’m going to win this one too, even with abysmal dice in big fleet battles.  I am carving up Russia, and I don’t think you’ll stop me.  :-)

I’ve also been playing A & A for 20 years.  I agree that while the Allies have the economic advantage, they can afford to lose far more IPC value in units than the Axis.  And I also agree that you have to be on the lookout for how a play by one member can give a huge boost to the others… for example, if you are willing to make India suffer, you can use their TT to make an even stronger attack on Ethiopia.  I’m also not above sacrificing a US fleet if I think ANZAC can come in and finish off the survivors.  Such things have to be chosen extremely carefully, however.  I often see that a full scramble UK1 might cost the Axis a matching number of planes, but this then leaves the UK with no planes on their turn.  Even if I successfully take out a matching number of planes, the opportunity cost is too high since there is nothing left for the SZ97 attack which is so vital to keeping Italy down.

I’m also convinced it is utterly impossible to keep Russia alive past round 6 unless the German player allows it, so you can safely assume any plans I make already include the loss of Russia at around that time.  If Moscow doesn’t go by turn 7, then I start to think I might win this game.  The vast majority of my losses come when I miscalculate the enemy’s air force and I end up losing a critical battle that I didn’t expect, not because my strategy was deficient.  That’s my own opinion, my opponents might have a different view!

[gamerman01]

:-)
Less talk, more action
I’ll be making another move tonight I think.

Yes, I think you’re starting to understand what I was trying to say to Jeff

I respectfully disagree about the necessity of UK to attack Z97.  If UK can take out 80% as many German planes as UK planes on UK1, that is a big victory. 
They can still take out Z96 easily without any of these planes.

I also disagree that you need to take Russia by round 7, and I disagree that you can’t stop Germany from taking Russia.  I’ve never lost Russia yet, and have faced concentrated land buys and maneuvers so aggressive they nearly abandoned the Western front.  I’ve taken France and held it, against one of the successful players on this site (consistently a winning league record).

[gamerman01]

Seems you’re one of those guys (there are several it seems) who thinks the game can often be won or lost in round 1, especially with results on G1 and UK1 with daring attacks on Italy’s fleet.

I disagree.

If you’re right, this game sucks because it’s often decided in round 1.

[Eqqman]

@Gamerman01:

They can still take out Z96 easily without any of these planes.

Yes, but the odds go down to near 80% if you get a full scramble.  In this case it’s risky, since even though you will win, the Italians won’t have too much trouble cleaning out the survivors and now you’ve lost your sea cover for Cairo, Italy gets it NO for no ships in the Med on I1.  This assumes Germany cleaned out the French fleet G1.  I don’t know if it is better for Germany to make sure that the French fleet is gone or to make sure that the UK is left with nothing but the SZ106 ships.  It probably depends on what you want to do afterwards- if you aren’t going to leave most of your air force down there until Italy has Cairo, then you probably have to sink the French for sure.

[gamerman01]

Z96

You can’t scramble to Z96.  You’re not even talking about the same thing I am.

Z96 is the one that went bad for you both games.

I’m saying, UK can always get Italy down to 2 transports without dealing with Z95 or Z97.  I’ve wiped Z95 in 2 games on UK1 with minimal losses (lucky to have minimal losses, but had very good odds on decimating the Italian fleet and air if they scramble)

Anyway, time for J2

[gamerman01]

Well, I took a good look at it tonight anyway…  Getting too late to finish it off tonight tho…

[Eqqman]

@Gamerman01:

I’m saying, UK can always get Italy down to 2 transports without dealing with Z95 or Z97.  I’ve wiped Z95 in 2 games on UK1 with minimal losses (lucky to have minimal losses, but had very good odds on decimating the Italian fleet and air if they scramble)

You’re right, I thought you were talking about the big fleet in SZ97.  I’m not sure why you would only bother to attack the smallest fleet in SZ96 since the combined 95 + 97 fleets are more than enough to clean out whatever UK ships are still there I1.

[gamerman01]

@Eggman:

@Gamerman01:

I’m saying, UK can always get Italy down to 2 transports without dealing with Z95 or Z97.  I’ve wiped Z95 in 2 games on UK1 with minimal losses (lucky to have minimal losses, but had very good odds on decimating the Italian fleet and air if they scramble)

You’re right, I thought you were talking about the big fleet in SZ97.  I’m not sure why you would only bother to attack the smallest fleet in SZ96 since the combined 95 + 97 fleets are more than enough to clean out whatever UK ships are still there I1.

Because then you have no fleet left.  Nice to have big ships available to go toward India if needed, or to hammer the Italian fleet once it gets away from its protective airbases with 3 fighters.  Have you ever even tried this?

[Eqqman]

@Gamerman01:

Because then you have no fleet left.  Nice to have big ships available to go toward India if needed, or to hammer the Italian fleet once it gets away from its protective airbases with 3 fighters.  Have you ever even tried this?

I’ve tried the fleet consolidation off of Gibraltar.  I didn’t care for it, since then Italy gets to consolidate its own fleet.  Alexandria is occupied and then the Italians can shuck men into Syria, forcing the UK to make some kind of attack on Iraq UK2 which may or may not weaken Cairo.  I haven’t found the price of allowing Italy an easier time to expand to be worth it.  It’s true that in 99% of my games the Brits are then sunk G2 if I do the SZ97 attack, but in such an attack, the German player is forced to lose planes.  I find this acceptable under the principle that we discussed before that you are likely weakening the ability of the Axis to keep doing such wipe-outs.

However, I’m not the kind of guy who ever takes his options completely off the table (maybe they are teetering on the edge).  Some circumstances might persuade me to give it another shot, such as in games like this where there is a G1 attack on Russia that leaves more than the usual number of Royal Navy ships alive.  Especially if this was followed up with a J1 attack that would allow me to start sending in US aid right away.  I haven’t considered the idea of sending the fleet out to help India though, which is an interesting option.  I’m not sure if an Indian Ocean consolidation can happen fast enough to make any kind of dent in Japan’s plans, but it might if they were banking on a late DoW to help Germany.

[gamerman01]

Yeah, I didn’t mean off Gibraltar

I don’t know - I really don’t have that many games of G40 under my belt.  Usually over the past few years they never last more than a couple of rounds so I can’t learn too much from them.

We also won’t learn much from this game no matter how it goes, because like you said 99% of the time your UK fleet is gone after round 1 or 2 or whatever, and I didn’t sink A SINGLE UK SHIP in two viable attacks on them!  I mean, when you get extreme dice you really can’t tell whether my ideas were good or not.

I do know this - I am not sold on G1 attacks.  I thought it was a lame-brained idea, but you can’t really scoff til you try it once, huh?