I looked into it, you can get Sydney by just purchasing 3 Trn on J1. However unless Anzac plays terribly newbish I can’t see Sydney falling to Japan on J3. More likely J4.
What exactly is your invasion force on Sydney. Assuming 3 Trn 1 Art on J1 you have access to 4 Art, 1 Tank and lots of inf to load up on 6 total Trn. Do you snag some Art from the mainland on J1 moving the Trn to SZ6 to stage at Caroline on J2? to even it out at 6 inf, 6 art? That force doesn’t take out possibly 7 Inf, 1 Art and 3 Ftr in a “good” scenario for Japan where Anzac didn’t think defensively until Anzac2 with a big fleet staged on Carolines.
You’re forgetting 3 f., 3 tac. (from the carriers) as well as shore bombardments.
I’m not sure yet if this is completely unstoppable, but to stop it the Allies have to do a lot of things they don’t want to do.
The allies In that situation would have 4 inf 1 art 3 fighters 2 aa guns to start the game with. When you attack the allies T1 my anzac reply is always going to be 2 inf 1 art. I have to. There is nothing I can do with transports or warships. plus I have to think the worst and play for the worst case sceneria. So on Japan T3 My anzac would have purchased 6 ground units making the total to 8 inf, 3 art, 3 fighters and 2 aa guns. 16 units on defense. Your attack would be 3 inf, 2 art, 1 tank, 3 fighters, 3 tacs, 2 cruiser bombarbs, and 2 battleship bombards. 16 units on attack, but 4 heavy hitters go away after the first round, and you loose 1 fighter to aa gun fire. This is best case scenario. The anzac can place their cruiser or destroyer in sea zone 62 (outside sydney) and block the bombards. So in reality 11 attacking units Vs. 16 defending units on Japan T3. On turn 4 it can be 6 more ground and possibly 15 more planes.
The allies In that situation would have 4 inf 1 art 3 fighters 2 aa guns to start the game with. When you attack the allies T1 my anzac reply is always going to be 2 inf 1 art. I have to. There is nothing I can do with transports or warships. plus I have to think the worst and play for the worst case sceneria. So on Japan T3 My anzac would have purchased 6 ground units making the total to 8 inf, 3 art, 3 fighters and 2 aa guns. 16 units on defense. Your attack would be 3 inf, 2 art, 1 tank, 3 fighters, 3 tacs, 2 cruiser bombarbs, and 2 battleship bombards. 16 units on attack, but 4 heavy hitters go away after the first round, and you loose 1 fighter to aa gun fire. This is best case scenario. The anzac can place their cruiser or destroyer in sea zone 62 (outside sydney) and block the bombards. So in reality 11 attacking units Vs. 16 defending units on Japan T3. On turn 4 it can be 6 more ground and possibly 15 more planes.
You forgot the clever deduction of the poster above–Japan builds 3 transports J1.
Also, they NC enough to the Carolines to reach any ANZAC seacraft next turn–‘blocking’ any opportunity to ‘block’ sb’s.
The maximum possible ANZAC defense J3 is 8 inf., 2 art., 2 tanks, 2 aa’s and 3 planes (and that’s assuming the ANZAC transport does nothing but bring the NZ guy to Sydney… which is also assuming that transport is alive to see A1).
Japan’s maximum J3 attack is 6 inf., 5 art., 1 tank, 3 f., 3 tac., 2 bombers, 4 sb’s (2 cruiser, 2 BB).
It’s a little more complicated than that, but I’m starting to doubt my own qualifier from before: This may be unstoppable!
I counted the spaces from the AC’s staged in the Carolines to Sydney and I think its 5 spaces. 4 gets you to Sydney, but there is no where to land. You’d have to stage the AC’s in at least SZ46 off New Guinea on J2.
I almost always see Anzac1 take DNG for the NO because the 10 IPC’s a round from NO’s is much more valuable than the Trn you may lose. Anzac1 ending the turn with 20 IPC’s provides for an Anzac2 of a BB or AC for those fighters you may or may not want to rusty away on the capital.
If you declare war on the US on round 1 you lose the 10 IPC NO for Japan for the sake of 2 IPC from the Philippines and expose yourself to the Hawaii fleets nipping at the J2 move of heavily laden trans to Carolines. Better to take the 20 IPCs for J1 and J2, declare war J3 (net 16 IPC) and not have to worry about the US taking shots at your fleet in the Carolines early. Also keeps the US industry at a minimum.
Even if you do a J3 sea battle off Sydney and a J4 invasion, you still have J2, J3, J4 to purchase units off Japan to deal with a US counter (which you can use destroyers as a blocker to extend it to J4 before US hits Japan at the earliest). Realistically if US3 makes its purchases, it cannot even stage those purchases on Hawaii until J4. If Japan is sitting pretty with 34ish IPC’s on those three rounds you can field at least another carrier and 2 BB in Japan or fly in some fighters from the mainland onto 2 AC and have 3 more to scramble from the AB.
If J4 takes Sydney, J5 puts the main fleet in the Carolines and the US has to choose between the big fleet or Japan. Both defensive battles and more advantageous for the Japansese navy than the normal attack on Hawaii where your AC don’t get to take hits. US goes after Japan, you take Hawaii and cut it off from re-supply and 3 space movements. It takes heavy casualties just trying to take SZ6 and still has to deal with 6 Inf on Japan (not to mention you have up to 6 Kamikaze’s you can target the US AC’s with). Sunk AC’s = crashed fighters even if the US prevails over 2 AC, a couple destroyers and a BB with 7 fighters flying cover. Then J6 Japan Carolines mops up whats remaining of the fleet with no AC or fighters in SZ6 with the big fleet and holds Sydney and Hawaii. Thats if US goes after Japan which imo is a misplay.
US’s could take the Carolines instead of Japan as early as J3, but then you have 5 AC (3 from Sydney, 2 from Japan) with the entire fleet converging on the US fleet. Its not pretty but the US does get to play defensive Navy which is an advantage.
I think this is all silliness. Japan shouldn’t be messing with ANZAC until later in the game, AFTER taking the DEI and Calcutta. By taking the DEI, Philippines and Kwangtung, they double their income with the DEI NO and capture 2 more VCs. Once Japan takes Calcutta, that’s another VC, plus a capital to plunder and another NO. Calcutta will not be easily liberated; The Brits in Egypt will be busy with the Italians, the Russians will probably have their hands full with Germany, ANZAC is just too weak and the US is not likely to get clear over to India, at least not for several rounds.
Also, with Calcutta comes a shiny new IC to start sending troops and tanks into China to properly deal with them. And Japan should be making enough money to compete with USA in warships. Then you can work your way over to take Sydney and start pushing the US Navy back toward their own west coast.
Just make sure you leave your capital well defended. In a recent game, our Japan player failed to do that and lost Tokyo in ROUND 2! After 3-4 rounds of mopping up the rest of the Japanese navy and army, Germany and Italy were doomed. Germany even managed to take Moscow but it still didn’t matter with USA and UK throwing everything at them. Calcutta started building tanks and rolling them through the Middle East and up into Russia.
I agree with knp, if Japan is able to capture Australia early in the game, they have out stretched themselves IMO. India is the greater threat with a slightly larger navy and a foot hold on the mainland (which if unchecked, could cause serious problems). If Sydney fell early, I just don’t see Japan holding it. They would need to leave any surviving land units there and spend for 3 units per turn in Austrailia. The US would surly liberate it (I would) and India, China, and Russia would all take advantage. I say sac Calcutta, claim the money islands, secure the coastal VCs, and than pounce on your choice of Sydney or Hawaii for the win.
Also, it seems that we can stop declaring strategies that attack the US early, as smart or viable.
Loosing Japan on R2 is impossible isn’t it? Even if all your transports offloaded men Japan should still have 5 ground units and 3 aa guns at the minimum. How in the world is US going to take this out with just 2 infantry and 1 bombarding cruiser?
I counted the spaces from the AC’s staged in the Carolines to Sydney and I think its 5 spaces. 4 gets you to Sydney, but there is no where to land. You’d have to stage the AC’s in at least SZ46 off New Guinea on J2.
You hit sz35 J1, and sz54 J2. If he’s been foolish enough to leave men in Queensland, you wipe them out. You also dd screen the US; they can break the screen, but they won’t be able to NC into sz54 or 62 to give you any problems.
I almost always see Anzac1 take DNG for the NO because the 10 IPC’s a round from NO’s is much more valuable than the Trn you may lose. Anzac1 ending the turn with 20 IPC’s provides for an Anzac2 of a BB or AC for those fighters you may or may not want to rusty away on the capital.
You have to think short term here. Anzac is facing a J3 invasion, that gives her 2 turns to prepare. The transport is better used grabbing the NZ infantry rather than leaving him and losing another infantry to get +5 in production that will come in to play for one turn before being looted by Japan.
If you declare war on the US on round 1 you lose the 10 IPC NO for Japan for the sake of 2 IPC from the Philippines and expose yourself to the Hawaii fleets nipping at the J2 move of heavily laden trans to Carolines. Better to take the 20 IPCs for J1 and J2, declare war J3 (net 16 IPC) and not have to worry about the US taking shots at your fleet in the Carolines early. Also keeps the US industry at a minimum.
You gain 2 for PHI, 2 for FIC, 3 for Kwangtung, 4 for Borneo (potentially), and you take 7 from the US that they won’t get back anytime soon. Plus, most importantly, you gain a VC. All in all, better than a basic 10 IPCs that take nothing away from opponents. Short term thinking!
Even if you do a J3 sea battle off Sydney and a J4 invasion, you still have J2, J3, J4 to purchase units off Japan to deal with a US counter (which you can use destroyers as a blocker to extend it to J4 before US hits Japan at the earliest). Realistically if US3 makes its purchases, it cannot even stage those purchases on Hawaii until J4. If Japan is sitting pretty with 34ish IPC’s on those three rounds you can field at least another carrier and 2 BB in Japan or fly in some fighters from the mainland onto 2 AC and have 3 more to scramble from the AB.
If J4 takes Sydney, J5 puts the main fleet in the Carolines and the US has to choose between the big fleet or Japan. Both defensive battles and more advantageous for the Japansese navy than the normal attack on Hawaii where your AC don’t get to take hits. US goes after Japan, you take Hawaii and cut it off from re-supply and 3 space movements. It takes heavy casualties just trying to take SZ6 and still has to deal with 6 Inf on Japan (not to mention you have up to 6 Kamikaze’s you can target the US AC’s with). Sunk AC’s = crashed fighters even if the US prevails over 2 AC, a couple destroyers and a BB with 7 fighters flying cover. Then J6 Japan Carolines mops up whats remaining of the fleet with no AC or fighters in SZ6 with the big fleet and holds Sydney and Hawaii. Thats if US goes after Japan which imo is a misplay.
US’s could take the Carolines instead of Japan as early as J3, but then you have 5 AC (3 from Sydney, 2 from Japan) with the entire fleet converging on the US fleet. Its not pretty but the US does get to play defensive Navy which is an advantage.
**Some interesting thoughts here. Part of the advantage of a J3 Sydney invasion is that it forces the US into the war before it is really ready (for reasons you articulate; all the IPCs in the world don’t help when your new units are several turns away from the action).
You should have an online game with one of the vets around here. Once you’re finished, win or lose you’ll be ready to eviscerate your friends next Friday night!**
I think this is all silliness. Japan shouldn’t be messing with ANZAC until later in the game, AFTER taking the DEI and Calcutta. By taking the DEI, Philippines and Kwangtung, they double their income with the DEI NO and capture 2 more VCs. Once Japan takes Calcutta, that’s another VC, plus a capital to plunder and another NO. Calcutta will not be easily liberated; The Brits in Egypt will be busy with the Italians, the Russians will probably have their hands full with Germany, ANZAC is just too weak and the US is not likely to get clear over to India, at least not for several rounds.
Also, with Calcutta comes a shiny new IC to start sending troops and tanks into China to properly deal with them. And Japan should be making enough money to compete with USA in warships. Then you can work your way over to take Sydney and start pushing the US Navy back toward their own west coast.
Just make sure you leave your capital well defended. In a recent game, our Japan player failed to do that and lost Tokyo in ROUND 2!
**The old J3 India Crush is still very viable, and a little more friendly to Japan’s economy than the Sydney strike. Either strategy ‘nips the Allies in the bud,’ so to speak; beat them before they have a chance to get going.
The economic advantages for Japan of waiting until J3/J4 to attack are dwarfed by the advantages you offer the Allies in such a scenario. With the J3 crush, even if India doesn’t fall immediately, they are reduced to 5 IPCs per turn and no navy (if things are handled properly).
No offense to your friends, but losing Japan in the early rounds is flat-out incompetent. It’s hard to imagine you learning anything from that. I urge you as well to start playing on the forums (or at least check them out), to see some of the strategies being discussed here in play. **
@Young:
Also, it seems that we can stop declaring strategies that attack the US early, as smart or viable.
**If you are talking about Hawaii, you are understandably wrong, as ignoring Hawaii is common Japanese strategy (although not necessarily optimal).
If you are talking about the Phillipines, you are criminally wrong and I beg you to download battlemap and start a game with one of the vets around here.**
I really think he is talking about attacking on Japan R1. I have to agree with him. I just think Japan can’t hit enough on R1 for it to be worth giving US 20 more dollars…
I really think he is talking about attacking on Japan R1. I have to agree with him. I just think Japan can’t hit enough on R1 for it to be worth giving US 20 more dollars…
Fair enough, but do you have battlemap? Would you like to see a proper J1 attack?
I really think he is talking about attacking on Japan R1. I have to agree with him. I just think Japan can’t hit enough on R1 for it to be worth giving US 20 more dollars…
Fair enough, but do you have battlemap? Would you like to see a proper J1 attack?
Chill out, I was talking about a J1 attack on the US being unwise and by the looks of things, unpopular, and it’s not just $20, it’s a possible $40 extra income in NOs for the US, minus $30 from Japan for their NO, that’s a $70 IPC swing to the Allies. You may beg all you want, but I don’t have battlemap, and I don’t play video games. Why don’t you just post a detailed blue print of your J1? I have done blue prints many times explaining my strategies without needing to challenge people to a online game, and just because you accomplished something in one game, doesn’t make it a wise standard operation.
I have a mac, is there any way to play an online game here using the maps that I see you guys post?
I agree with Jercules, the move is very viable and very critical. Altough a counter is that a J1 attack can let the US reinforce Australia immediately, bringing aircrafts and up to 2 more ground forces in time if done properly.
@Young:
I really think he is talking about attacking on Japan R1. I have to agree with him. I just think Japan can’t hit enough on R1 for it to be worth giving US 20 more dollars…
Fair enough, but do you have battlemap? Would you like to see a proper J1 attack?
Chill out, I was talking about a J1 attack on the US being unwise and by the looks of things, unpopular, and it’s not just $20, it’s a possible $40 extra income in NOs for the US, minus $30 from Japan for their NO, that’s a $70 IPC swing to the Allies. You may beg all you want, but I don’t have battlemap, and I don’t play video games. Why don’t you just post a detailed blue print of your J1? I have done blue prints many times explaining my strategies without needing to challenge people to a online game, and just because you accomplished something in one game, doesn’t make it a wise standard operation.
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=25639.0
Here is a J1 blueprint that I posted for your benefit some time ago. Feel free to actually look at it, consider it, and present specific criticisms if you wish.
Also, feel free to not respond to my posts not directed at you.
I agree with Jercules, the move is very viable and very critical. Altough a counter is that a J1 attack can let the US reinforce Australia immediately, bringing aircrafts and up to 2 more ground forces in time if done properly.
Noll, can you think of a viable defense to a J3 Sydney invasion from sz35 (35 to 54 to 62) besides flooding sz45, 46, and 54 with ANZAC and US seacraft?
I have a mac, is there any way to play an online game here using the maps that I see you guys post?
You need to download Abattlemap. There should be a link for it somewhere in the stickies of this forum. It’s a tiny DOS program that provides us with the game board, the rest is done by forum (here’s an example of a game: http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=25393.0).
I’ve read some controversy as to whether or not battlemap functions on macs, so be forewarned.
US#1 after your DOW:
2fig from HAW to NZE
2inf HAW to sz52 via transport
1carrier 1fig from z10 to z51
1fig from WUS to z51
at least 1blocker to sz54 to prevent an attack to NZE from CAR;
US#2 you land 4fig in NSW, 2inf from sz52 to sz62 > NSW
;
You could add (and I wouldn’t) 1fig 1tac from IND but they would be killable by Japan.
US#1 after your DOW:
2fig from HAW to NZE
2inf HAW to sz52 via transport
1carrier 1fig from z10 to z51
1fig from WUS to z51at least 1blocker to sz54 to prevent an attack to NZE from CAR;
US#2 you land 4fig in NSW, 2inf from sz52 to sz62 > NSW
;
You could add (and I wouldn’t) 1fig 1tac from IND but they would be killable by Japan.
We’re gonna have a good game in January Noll, I can feel it.
@Young:
I really think he is talking about attacking on Japan R1. I have to agree with him. I just think Japan can’t hit enough on R1 for it to be worth giving US 20 more dollars…
Fair enough, but do you have battlemap? Would you like to see a proper J1 attack?
Chill out, I was talking about a J1 attack on the US being unwise and by the looks of things, unpopular, and it’s not just $20, it’s a possible $40 extra income in NOs for the US, minus $30 from Japan for their NO, that’s a $70 IPC swing to the Allies. You may beg all you want, but I don’t have battlemap, and I don’t play video games. Why don’t you just post a detailed blue print of your J1? I have done blue prints many times explaining my strategies without needing to challenge people to a online game, and just because you accomplished something in one game, doesn’t make it a wise standard operation.
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=25639.0
Here is a J1 blueprint that I posted for your benefit some time ago. Feel free to actually look at it, consider it, and present specific criticisms if you wish.
Also, feel free to not respond to my posts not directed at you.
Hey Jercules, sorry if you think I was crapping in your corn flakes, but you’re the one who got highly defensive with my statement about how unwise I think it would be to attack the US early (and it seems that 29 out of 30 voters wouldn’t even make an early American attack their 3rd option). I read your blue print, and in an effort to refrain from being rude like you…. I will simply say “I disagree with it”, I would tell you why, but you have pissed me off and I don’t care to talk right now. I hope I didn’t accidentally address an opinion of yours that wasn’t directed at me, I must have been mistaken to think that this was a group forum… if you don’t want your comments to be commented on, may I suggest private messages.
Hey guys at least none of us believe the hollocaust didn’t happen. Or that the world is run by the Jews LOL.
