@simon33 Yes and I pointed out that you just had a foolish engagement of limping a carrier if the enemy scored a hit which it will statically would.
Sealion defense
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What is the consensus on stacking the UK fleet in SZ110 on UK2 to help defend Britain?
The UK fleet after G1 should comprise a BB, two CAs, two or three DDs, and 1 loaded CV. This is a strong force and stacking it in 110 prevents the German shore bombardments and forces them to devote some of the Luftwaffe towards the naval combat. I’ve done this in a couple of games and both times Germany was still able to successfully take Britain (both times with only one land unit, though they had to take hits on their air force to save that land unit).
But sacrificing the RN in SZ 110 means Italy gets to go wild in the Med and Africa. It also gives Germany some breathing room because the the Atlantic will be devoid of any Allied warships, and it will take two turns (more if the U.S. is going hard after Japan) for the U.S. to bring some pressure to bear on German-occupied England and the Continent.
What do others think? Would it be more efficient to husband the fleet (saving it for ops against the Italian fleet, or to provide escort for U.S. transports so the U.S.'s Atlantic builds can focus on transports and land units instead of warships) or stack it in SZ 110 if a G3 Sealion seems imminent? Save the fleet to fight a weak Italy now, or sacrifice the fleet to fight a weakened Luftwaffe later?
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@mantlefan:
If Germany buys a ton of trns on G2 for me it’s no question to stack the channel. The only question becomes how many planes to land on the carrier.
The problem with stacking the channel is all the German aircraft ready to blow you out of the water.
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@Trisdin:
@mantlefan:
If Germany buys a ton of trns on G2 for me it’s no question to stack the channel. The only question becomes how many planes to land on the carrier.
The problem with stacking the channel is all the German aircraft ready to blow you out of the water.
Then germany will have suffered significant losses with his air, and wont be able to take london with out siginificant casualties or will have to stall till next turn meaning russia will be a juggernaught
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@Trisdin:
@mantlefan:
If Germany buys a ton of trns on G2 for me it’s no question to stack the channel. The only question becomes how many planes to land on the carrier.
The problem with stacking the channel is all the German aircraft ready to blow you out of the water.
Then germany will have suffered significant losses with his air, and wont be able to take london with out siginificant casualties or will have to stall till next turn meaning russia will be a juggernaught
The goal of sea lion is to destroy everything British while taking over London. The time frame is three turns ( no more than four). Using everything in the German arsenal to accomplish this is perfectly acceptable. The IPCs earned from attacking French and neutral territories plus the UKs capital income will help take care of that “juggernaught” Russia.
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Since russia will have gained 37 ipcs every turn for 4 with no losses(assuming u play it safe and do a G4 sealion) russia should have enough guys in the frontier to smash numerous parts of eastern europe. Either that, or germany will have no real airforce threat against russia (assuming a G3 sealion). Either way, russia will have a solid defensive position if britain blocks sealion and germany decides to commit
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Since russia will have gained 37 ipcs every turn for 4 with no losses(assuming u play it safe and do a G4 sealion) russia should have enough guys in the frontier to smash numerous parts of eastern europe. Either that, or germany will have no real airforce threat against russia (assuming a G3 sealion). Either way, russia will have a solid defensive position if britain blocks sealion and germany decides to commit
By that logic, you are against Germany attempting sea lion all together (for the record, I never wait til G4 for sea lion, I always get it done by G3)
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Yes, it’s a hairy battle for sure, but I find that waiting til G4 allows the UK more buildup time and I think it’s riskier if I wait.
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ya but G3 will be a pyrrhic victory
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Has anyone considered a G2 attack on London? If you buy 2 transports instead of a destoyer and a sub G1, you put yourself in a good position to take London. With the new scrambling rules it is even possible to buy 4 transports and still protect your navy as long as you knock out the British fleet G1. You have 70% odds of victory assuming UK has 13 Inf and 5 fighters and block your bombards with 91 cruiser and 109 destroyer. This should be the best defense UK can muster. Germany may take some air losses but should win the battle. The beauty of this is that Germany does not need to build 10 transports G2, but can instead rebuild an airforce and/or an army to invade Russia G3. The sooner Germany can hit Russia the better, as is the sooner UK falls and stops spending money on the board. UK also would have only one turn to react, reposition and fortify themselves instead of 2 or 3. If successful this should fulfilll the German shock and awe doctrine used in their lightning war.
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Can you explain how you obtained this figure of 70%. From what I can tell, for a G2 sea lion Germany will have at most 5 tactical bombers, 5 fighters, 1 bomber, 1 inf, 1 art, 4 tanks. That’s with a G1 build of 4 transports. Ave. rolling for hits is around 8 - assuming 1 fighter and 1 tac bomber are killed through anti air. Any return fire from uk troops can be allocated to the planes. So, when pressing, Germany will have 1 inf, 1 art, and 4 tanks compared to 5 inf and 5 fighters. I fail to see how Germany has a 70% chance of winning that battle. Or am I missing something?
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my odds calc says a bit different too, it has the attacker at 35%, and that includes clearing the zone. I have 3 inf 3 arm 5 ftr 5 tac 1 bmb vs the 15 inf 5ftrs 1 aa. Not sure what the best load of forces is, 3 inf 3 arm or 3 inf 1 art 2 arm.
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@Trisdin:
Since russia will have gained 37 ipcs every turn for 4 with no losses(assuming u play it safe and do a G4 sealion) russia should have enough guys in the frontier to smash numerous parts of eastern europe. Either that, or germany will have no real airforce threat against russia (assuming a G3 sealion). Either way, russia will have a solid defensive position if britain blocks sealion and germany decides to commit
By that logic, you are against Germany attempting sea lion all together (for the record, I never wait til G4 for sea lion, I always get it done by G3)
No, it depends on UK1, if he shows he can block on UK2 then abandon the idea, maybe get gib. I was never against sealion, just its not a 100% ez german victory if UK chooses to block it. If you go G3 after UK blocks, then you would have a very hard tiem both clearing out the blockage and taking london. You may win, just you will need to split your airforce to protect for fleet from scramble which will reduce the firepower you have for the battle thus you will most likely recieve more casualites from not killing fast enough. The less airforce the better for russia. You are guarrenteed to lose alot of land from the battle, and since you would need to keep a garrison on uk to defend from america, you will be slower to reinforce the eastern front. Essentially, the more UK makes it hurt, or the longer he delays it, the better it is for the allies.
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@mantlefan:
That’s why (although I like that scrambling is in the game), I hate it when I am the attacker lol. The defender can have their cake and eat it too because you have to plan for both the scramble and the land battle without the scramble.
If you don’t plan for the scramble, they fubar your navy, and if you plan for the scramble, they don’t do it, you have planes wasting effort in the zone while they use theirs on land to potentially be the difference.
I totally agree, it really bakes your noodle.
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Can you explain how you obtained this figure of 70%. From what I can tell, for a G2 sea lion Germany will have at most 5 tactical bombers, 5 fighters, 1 bomber, 1 inf, 1 art, 4 tanks. That’s with a G1 build of 4 transports. Ave. rolling for hits is around 8 - assuming 1 fighter and 1 tac bomber are killed through anti air. Any return fire from uk troops can be allocated to the planes. So, when pressing, Germany will have 1 inf, 1 art, and 4 tanks compared to 5 inf and 5 fighters. I fail to see how Germany has a 70% chance of winning that battle. Or am I missing something?
Germany has 5 Inf and 5 art or tanks and would take the inf/art/tank casulties first except for 1 tank and then figthers and bombers. Attacking round 2 is risky - you will likely lose about 3 fighters and 3 tacs depending how the rolls go and if UK dumps everything they can to defend - but you should win 70% of the time according to every odds calculator I have used. That being said, one thing I neglected to consider is if UK scrambles. To prevent a possible catastrophe, it would be best to keep 1 Fighter with your navy, which would drop your land battle odds down to 60% if they dont scramble, but a sure victory if they do scramble but fail to destroy your transports - keep in mind all you need is a draw.
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