Yes, my bad. I was mixing in with the Global rules by mistake.
Allied tactics vs J1 war dec
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This is a list of various tactics that work for the allies in dealing with a J1 war dec. Most of these will deal with the two leading japan tactics with a J1 war dec, which are to attack phi, one DEI, and then either contain India with a major IC, or to crush India with overwhelming air power on J3. I will list some corner cases later on. A typical J purchase is J1: 3 trans, J2: Major IC or Airbase/Navalbase. This is not to say the game is balanced without a doubt, I just know in the distant past many of these were discussed and people new to the board may not have seen them. If you have something to add let me know and I will update the original post if everyone desires.
US
There are two main methods with the US, the ‘chain’ method, and the ‘northern method.
Northern: This works well against an India crush. The idea is to bring as much firepower to the home island as fast as possible. Your long term goals are to convoy raid the sea line and/or to get a factory on Korea and/or liberate some china coast. This will give you economic parity. On US1 purchase a carrier, you can bring 1 fig, 1 tac, and 1 bomber to SZ6 using your carrier, if you can sink the J1 purchase, do so. Move your destroyer and some planes to kill the sub at pearl if you desire. You will want to park the rest of your fleet in SZ 7 or SZ 15, and park your planes at Pearl. On US2 you can hit SZ6 with 1 SS, 1 DD(if survived), 1 Cru, 1 BB, 1 AC, 3 figs, 3 tacs, and 2 bmrs. On US2 you may want to take Iwo if you can safely, and continue a build up in SZ 7. You will want to purchase mainly destroyers at this point with a few transports and subs. If at anytime you can take Korea, or your fleet can move into SZ6 without it being destroyed, you should do so. SZ6 is an 11 IPC convoy! Japan will be hard pressed to keep you out while still committing to an India crush tactic, and typically will even be stuck to building fighters to secure the SZ instead of surface ships.Chain: This is more of a simple strat, you simple send your fleets from LA, to Pearl, then to Australia. You then simply trade DEI islands, take Truk, or go liberate Phi. At no time do you send your entire fleet out unless it will survive a counter attack. You slowly build up and push until you can take and hold a DEI island or something similar. This method is far to slow with early pressure against Japan to work against an India crush.
China: This is a very simple country, and has one main goal. To annoy japan as much as possible. You have two main things you can do with this country, the slow northern push to meet up with the US, or stay south and keep the burma road open as long as possible. The two big things to remember, against an India crush you must retake Yunnan, or atleast kill as many Japan units there as you can on turns 1 and 2, and that your plane can land in burma if that would be safe. For the most part though, China has to follow the UK or US lead. And remember, the US can liberate one of your territories and you can then drop units purchased into it that turn.
UK: You have 3 main tactics you can do. Delay an India crush, kill as many planes as possible in an India crush, or hold Burma road. For an India crush to work on J3 japan must take and hold one of 3 territories: Sham State, Yunnan, or Ceylon. On UK1 to delay the India crush purchase 1 tank, 1 mech, and 2 inf. Then move all India units (including AA) to Burma. If Yunnan is held by Japan at this time, liberate it with planes and 1 inf from burma. Also, move your DD/Cru to SZs 37 and 41 to protect Ceylon. On UK2 simply counterattack either Yunnan or Sham State with units in Burma plus air and your tank/mech. It is possible for japan to kill all your ground units in Burma with air on J2, but then they have to fly against the AA gun twice, very painful, and you may still have odds in liberating as they cannot land ground units there to stop your armor/mech and planes. The other tactic, holding Burma road is simple. Purchase 4 mech inf on UK1, move all units into Burma and Sham State. On UK2 simply stack the daylights out of Yunnan. You should have almost 20! allied units there. And remember, china can move into burma if japan tries to build an IC in Malaya to help the UK hold there in later turns. To make the India crush as painful as possible is extremely simple, build all INF.
ANZAC: This is a fun, odd, little country. Your main goal is to stay alive, and annoy Japan. Ensure you have enough ground units that Japan cannot overwhelm you with a drop. You can use mech/arm for this or simply stack up in South Australia. After that simply build subs and transports to convoy raid and/or snipe. Do NOT send off all your planes or you will be too weak to hold off Japan!
Odd J1 attacks: (will post later)
J2 India Crush:
US First: -
Hey this actually a very good thread started, I hope my amigo Buckeyeboy runs across it. There is some good stuff here.
It’s late, and I’ve got to work early, but I’ll be back tomorrow with some thoughts of my own.
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Chinese inf are like crabs on the beach.
They have to run and HIDE from the seaguls to survive.
let japs take ground for free, and then focus on counter attacks. Focus on killing thier ground units.
Only put up stacks in places where if you are attacked, you stand a good chance to kill planes. like defend with 4 inf in a tt where the japs can only send 1 inf and planes.
If your back is totally to the east wall of china, spread out as much as possible, to lengthen your chances of survival. More battles means more chances things go wrong for Japan somewhere.
Take pride in kicking jap a$$ with China, and you WILL roll better
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Chinese inf are like crabs on the beach.
They have to run and HIDE from the seaguls to survive.
let japs take ground for free, and then focus on counter attacks. Focus on killing thier ground units.
Only put up stacks in places where if you are attacked, you stand a good chance to kill planes. like defend with 4 inf in a tt where the japs can only send 1 inf and planes.
If your back is totally to the east wall of china, spread out as much as possible, to lengthen your chances of survival. More battles means more chances things go wrong for Japan somewhere.
Take pride in kicking jap a$$ with China, and you WILL roll better
I thought you were all about attacking with China, Gargantua? Did you change your mind for P40 as opposed to AE?
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Anyone try saving five IPC on ANZACs first turn to buy an airbase in western australia on the 2nd turn to use to land planes in India on turn 3? Both US and ANZAC fighters could be funneled from this airbase. If it looks like India will fall by turn three (ie Japan has launched bombers from SIAM against Britain’s two blocker ships in India on turn two) you could build a navel base on your Australian factory territory(new south wales) instead.
My opponent tried this tonight on turn 4 or 5 but sent his infantry on reckless missions and did not have enough infantry left to absorb the hits.
You would have to get as many infantry to western Australia as well to protect the fighters landing there. If Australia falls it is a lot easier to retake than India. Land As many american planes as you can in New Zealand on turn one then western Australia on turn two.
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Hey SAS, I guess you didn’t read the parts that suggest “Focus on counter attacks” and “kill ground units” or “Dont stack unless you absolutely have to”
Please quote any part that suggests any different. I don’t see how you can.
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J2 India Crush? How is that possible?
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Hey SAS, I guess you didn’t read the parts that suggest “Focus on counter attacks” and “kill ground units” or “Dont stack unless you absolutely have to”
Please quote any part that suggests any different. I don’t see how you can.
Whoa, whoa, take it easy… You just always sound so aggressive when talking about China in AE, but the parts about China having to “run and HIDE” and all in your post here made it sound like you were talking about playing more conservatively with China. Just asking if you changed your strategy or if I was reading it wrong; that’s all.
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You will want to park the rest of your fleet in SZ 7 or SZ 15, and park your planes at Pearl.
Pearl harbor doesn’t exists after my J1. Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
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Going for pearl is a losing move IMO. But best of luck to you.
That’s off topic however. Let’s get back onto allied tips.
A good tip in General, be creative with your airforce, spread them around as oppossed to stacking all in one place if you can.
The more options your aircraft have the more conservative your opponent (Japan) has to play with their navy. It often opens up oppurtunites for attacks you didn’t expect.
Same goes for subs in general.
In my current game against canuck12, exactly that happend, sunk 3 jap trans on turn 2.
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A good tip in General, be creative with your airforce, spread them around as oppossed to stacking all in one place if you can.
The more options your aircraft have the more conservative your opponent (Japan) has to play with their navy. It often opens up oppurtunites for attacks you didn’t expect.
Same goes for subs in general.
In my current game against canuck12, exactly that happend, sunk 3 jap trans on turn 2.
This is true, however it still didn’t stop India falling J3. If your British planes hadn’t gone down you probably would have made it to J4 and maybe taken the Carolines but it seems you might want to do the same with British air power, spread them out a little bit to pop weakly defended units, Japan has a lot of ground to cover and is boud to be exposed at some point, as we saw.
What I’m more interested in is a broader Allied strategy that can counter the India crush or at least make Japan think differently. Gargantua is a much more experienced player than I am but the Allies could barely put up a fight in our game.
It seems to me that this north-pacific strategy may be the most fruitful. Putting some pressure on the homeland and forcing Japan to keep fighters in the capital to scramble in case of a strike. Even if fighters counterstrike from the Carolines or Phi the US may be able to take (and may hold) Korea. Having a fleet stationed at Australia is not very threatening; you can Trade DEI until Japan conquers China and India and takes the economic advantage. It’s a slow death. What I think needs to be done is similar to G’s theory on planes, you need to keep your units versatile to keep Japan honest. It is nearly impossible to keep Japan from taking the economic advantage so the Allies have to maintain a strategic advantage: keeping units in a position where they can do some damage. Japan inevitably gets fighters bogged down in China and south Asia. The allies should avoid this as much as possible. The US should never have to keep ground units in its capital but Japan sure should.
Any comments, criticisms or experiences with this type of allied strategy is encouraged.
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A good tip in General, be creative with your airforce, spread them around as oppossed to stacking all in one place if you can.
The more options your aircraft have the more conservative your opponent (Japan) has to play with their navy. It often opens up oppurtunites for attacks you didn’t expect.
Same goes for subs in general.
In my current game against canuck12, exactly that happend, sunk 3 jap trans on turn 2.
This is true, however it still didn’t stop India falling J3. If your British planes hadn’t gone down you probably would have made it to J4 and maybe taken the Carolines but it seems you might want to do the same with British air power, spread them out a little bit to pop weakly defended units, Japan has a lot of ground to cover and is boud to be exposed at some point, as we saw.
What I’m more interested in is a broader Allied strategy that can counter the India crush or at least make Japan think differently. Gargantua is a much more experienced player than I am but the Allies could barely put up a fight in our game.
It seems to me that this north-pacific strategy may be the most fruitful. Putting some pressure on the homeland and forcing Japan to keep fighters in the capital to scramble in case of a strike. Even if fighters counterstrike from the Carolines or Phi the US may be able to take (and may hold) Korea. Having a fleet stationed at Australia is not very threatening; you can Trade DEI until Japan conquers China and India and takes the economic advantage. It’s a slow death. What I think needs to be done is similar to G’s theory on planes, you need to keep your units versatile to keep Japan honest. It is nearly impossible to keep Japan from taking the economic advantage so the Allies have to maintain a strategic advantage: keeping units in a position where they can do some damage. Japan inevitably gets fighters bogged down in China and south Asia. The allies should avoid this as much as possible. The US should never have to keep ground units in its capital but Japan sure should.
Any comments, criticisms or experiences with this type of allied strategy is encouraged.
Even if India falls, Jpan only had 8 ipc’s more than the combined of US and ANZAC. They just have to recapture PI or one DEI to return to their economic advantage. Also, India’s loss can be an advantage: Singapore and Hong Kong can be captured by the US and have major factories builf there. Malaya is 3 spaces away from queensland.
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Even if India falls, Jpan only had 8 ipc’s more than the combined of US and ANZAC. They just have to recapture PI or one DEI to return to their economic advantage. Also, India’s loss can be an advantage: Singapore and Hong Kong can be captured by the US and have major factories builf there. Malaya is 3 spaces away from queensland.
True, but typically there is a very large Japanese navy somewhere in between queensland and malaysia. negating the possibility of setting up any meaningful foothold on the south asian coast.
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Has anyone tried performing a Northern Push strategy whilst keeping a somewhat lighter force in the south, at Queensland, to strike a vulnerable spot within the Philippine-Caroline-Japan defense line?
In most cases alone, the Northern Push forces the Japanese to concentrate its fleet back to sz 6. If combined with feint operations, the Allies could reach the mainland.
Any thoughts?
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This US strategy assumes a kill UK/China first strategy for Japan (which is optimal).
Build up your US fleet until it is unbeatable. Send a couple of bombers to Queensland. If TRUK is open send a transport + inf to take it. Otherwise you can send inf + art to help retake ANZAC national objective. These are distractions.
You want to be prepared to threaten Japan US5.
I normally start by buying subs the first three turns. Maybe the odd DD or Bomber.
Turn 4 buy transports + stuff to put on them.
Turn 5 buy bombers (or more subs) + naval base on midway. Turn 5 move everything to Midway.
You can now potentially land on Korea, Japan (difficult to screen attack, Japan needs to use 3 DD’s), Okinawa, Iwo Jima, Mainland China (taking Hong Kong next turn if possible)
Japan is forced to reinforce their home islands, especially with fighters.
If Japan effectively defends, keep building up forces on Midway until you can take and hold Sea of Japan. Ultimately you want Japan to be forced to retreat their fleet to their home islands before India/China falls. In this case you would need to send some transports + escort to TRUK(DD screen if necessary), replenishing Midway with more loaded transports from WUS; to threaten DEI/Phillipines. ANZAC can reinf with fighters as needed.
A competent Japan can counter this, neutralizing UK (not necessarily taking India) and demolishing China while keeping their fleet at home. Part of their fleet would have to be kept near DEI.
In this scenario can the Allies outspend Japan? Probably not. Japan builds directly in Sea of Japan while USA builds on west coast. US is always one turn behind Japan builds.
Also, once China is gone, Japan retreats ALL of their airforce to home islands, builds all subs one turn and can effectively strike at US fleet off Midway. US forced to retreat to Hawaii.Using this strategy can Allies win? Against a strong Japan player, no. Against a mediocre player, yes.
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Even if India falls, Jpan only had 8 ipc’s more than the combined of US and ANZAC. They just have to recapture PI or one DEI to return to their economic advantage. Also, India’s loss can be an advantage: Singapore and Hong Kong can be captured by the US and have major factories builf there. Malaya is 3 spaces away from queensland.
True, but typically there is a very large Japanese navy somewhere in between queensland and malaysia. negating the possibility of setting up any meaningful foothold on the south asian coast.
Not if they have to defend against the US navy. A moderate navy can be killed with subs and ftrs, especially if the UK evacuated its 5 planes before India fell.
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Hey chaps,
I’ve been looking over these threads for a while now and am keen to work on my Allied strategy. Also used to play a bit through www.days-of-infamy.org with AAP a few years ago.
So what’s the update on Japan taking Hawaii in the first couple of turns and then working its way south towards NSW on J4? Has this been discredited at all, with blocking ships perhaps?
Similarly, what are the thoughts on staying alive as UK in India/China?
I’ve only played the game once as I don’t own it yet, but I was rather shocked to see how much firepower Japan can bring to bear on J1. The J1 attack certainly seems optimal given the IPC/Allied unit/Japan income tradeoffs. The only plan that seems to get the US into the war quickly and effectively seems to be a northern route, out of Midway or Hawaii and attacking Japan’s new builds and maybe Korea.
I’ve modelled some naval combat a bit and found that the US player only has any hope of victory in the first few rounds if it can nibble off bits of the Japanese fleet. Fighting battles with extra Japanese air power (i.e. more than the 6 air units from the Carriers) results in disaster, and any battle that sees the US lose the core of its fleet (Carriers, Battleship etc) is a win for Japan - just like in original AAP. By the time you rebuild and get in position again, Japan has matched you $ for $ and it’s a stalemate.
A couple of questions too (since I don’t have a copy of the rules):
- can you build ports and air bases on newly captured territory? (ref: Japanese port in Midway)
- can you build Industrial Complexes on newly captured territory? (ref: US Factory in Korea).
The latter is important as I can’t understand how a US Factory in Korea would survive if it was built 1 turn after Korea was captured - Japan would surely have units nearby to retake it, or just bomb it to uselessness?
Cheers!
Lozza007
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Hey chaps,
I’ve been looking over these threads for a while now and am keen to work on my Allied strategy. Also used to play a bit through www.days-of-infamy.org with AAP a few years ago.
So what’s the update on Japan taking Hawaii in the first couple of turns and then working its way south towards NSW on J4? Has this been discredited at all, with blocking ships perhaps?
Similarly, what are the thoughts on staying alive as UK in India/China?
I’ve only played the game once as I don’t own it yet, but I was rather shocked to see how much firepower Japan can bring to bear on J1. The J1 attack certainly seems optimal given the IPC/Allied unit/Japan income tradeoffs. The only plan that seems to get the US into the war quickly and effectively seems to be a northern route, out of Midway or Hawaii and attacking Japan’s new builds and maybe Korea.
I’ve modelled some naval combat a bit and found that the US player only has any hope of victory in the first few rounds if it can nibble off bits of the Japanese fleet. Fighting battles with extra Japanese air power (i.e. more than the 6 air units from the Carriers) results in disaster, and any battle that sees the US lose the core of its fleet (Carriers, Battleship etc) is a win for Japan - just like in original AAP. By the time you rebuild and get in position again, Japan has matched you $ for $ and it’s a stalemate.
A couple of questions too (since I don’t have a copy of the rules):
- can you build ports and air bases on newly captured territory? (ref: Japanese port in Midway)
- can you build Industrial Complexes on newly captured territory? (ref: US Factory in Korea).
The latter is important as I can’t understand how a US Factory in Korea would survive if it was built 1 turn after Korea was captured - Japan would surely have units nearby to retake it, or just bomb it to uselessness?
Cheers!
Lozza007
On J1, Hawaii can be hit with 3 inf, 1 art, 1 tank, if 1 tac is scrambled to prevent bombardment. The defense is 1 bmr, 2 inf, 1 ftr. Both have an attack total of 9, so let’s say both get 2 hits. Then it’s 1 inf, 1 art, 1 tank vs 1 inf, 1 ftr. Each get 1 hit, so it’ll be art, tank vs ftr. Thus Japan can take Hawaii with 1 tank. However, since it used all 3 transports, it can’t take the philippines or any DEI. Thus, the US gets 61 ipcs, and unless Japan moves most of their fleet to that sea zone, the transports will die. After US1, hawaii is defended with the entire fleet in the sea zone, 3 inf, 1 tank, 1 ftr, and 1 tac, while most of the Jap fleet is in the Phil SZ, unable to reach Hawaii.
China and UK will die if Japan plays properly. The key is to delay them long enough that the US and ANZAC gain naval and air supremecy in the Pacific. After India falls, Japan collects 78 ipc’s, to US’s 55 and ANZAC’s 15. However, since the US and ANZAC should have naval superiority by now, they can easily attack the DEI, PI, or perhaps Mal or Kwangtung, since they can take control of it and build a major factory. In order to achieve naval supremecy, the US should take Iwo, allowing them to hit SZ6 from WUS with bombers. This will probably catch your opponent by surprise.
The southern route also works to grab the money islands, which forces the Jap navy to block, allowing you to destroy them piecemeal.
For your questions: Both are no.
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