Episode 115
We review Man of Steel and play Anniversary
Plastic Playing Pieces
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The Matilda was an infantry tank. While it did have good armor protection, it lacked both speed & firepower. It could only do about 15 mph & was armed with a little 2pdr gun that wouldn’t penetrate German armor.
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The Matilda was an infantry tank. While it did have good armor protection, it lacked both speed & firepower. It could only do about 15 mph & was armed with a little 2pdr gun that wouldn’t penetrate German armor.
Incorrect.
“Both the Panzer III and IV had difficulty in penetrating the British Matilda II’s thick armor, while the Matilda armed with a 40 mm QF 2 pdr gun could knock out either German tank…”
- Ormeño, Javier (1 January 2007). “Panzerkampfwagen III: El pequeño veterano de la Werhmacht”.
However, like you said, it was a slow vehicle.
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@C_Strabala:
Crazy question, why are the only unique Italian units their tanks & infantry? Why counldn’t Hasbro/Avalon Hill/Wizards Of The Coast come up with at least a few new units instead of recycling German & Japanese units? Second, what is the British tank in this game?
Yea…i definately wish Italy had all unique units…I also wish i had a solid gold toilet, but oh well.
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Matilda had a good armour and a good gun that was more than a match for the German Panzers.
The problems of Matilda were two. First, it was extremely slow, and this hampered it use in offensive operation. Second, its gun can only fire APC round and was not able to fire HE shells.
The latter was really a bad feature because Matilda was completely ineffective against entreched MG and infantries, so giving little support for the role it was intended: Infantry Support Tank. Moreover German AT Gun, namely the 88, are at advantage firing at long range, while Matilda having no possibility to reply with HE shells (type of ammo to be used to deal with the personnell using the AT guns) was like a slowly moving target. This reasons caused Matilda to be pulled out of the front line units and production ceased. -
I can’t deny with that. The German 88 was an absolute terror on the field. It was the most effective weapon in the German arsenal (alongside the MG42) during the war.
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I thought the peices were fine - I had no problems with mine.
I fear, however, that NOT buying the game will make more of an impact than buying every single version that is released and then complaining. It sends a mixed message to Avalon Hill - and at teh end of the day it’s sales figures that matter.
The company wants to sell games, we all bought them… we bought the last ones, and they know we are going to buy the next ones.
If you are that unhappy send it back - that will get their attention!
If you the fans want peices - you the fans will need to come up with a way to solve it - and I suggest the method used by the other wargame companies.
I present the so called p500 system.
Invented by GMT games - www.gmtgames.com.
How does it work - they design a game, and then rather than produce it at great cost, they work out how much it will cost to get made and then put information up about the game and invite people to pre-order.
Once it gets 500 orders they advance to a more detailed design stage, knowing that they already have 500 orders. Once they have 750 orders they push the game into production. Those who pre-order get the game at a discount price. The number of pre-orders needed for something to go into design varies - and they always do a run of a few thousand and sell to games shops and what not, which then sell at full price.
The advantage is the game is EXACTLY what gamers want. If it’s not, then they gon’t get enough pre-orders and the game is not made. Prior to release, all sorts of rules, graphics and play test kits are handed out so that it is heavily refined and play tested prior to launch. These are games companies run by games for gamers…they are not ‘commercial’ in that sense, and many of those working in the companies do so on a part-time basis - it’s a profesional approach to a hobby.
So, since at the end of the day Avalon Hill staff work for Avlon Hill shareholders, and the MD will answer to his board and NOT you the customer, I suggest that the more enterprising amoungst you and go and get a quote for a line of plastic mins. You can have whatever you want… Panzer 4’s, Me262’s whatever.
Once you have a price for a run of how ever many is reasonable - you can put out a pre-order page. People pay whatever is a reasonale cost to cover production, shipping and the time of whoever did the initial work. Say 500 people cough up $50 in advance you have the money to buy the peices. If you want to run commerically - you make sure your initial pre-orders cover the costs of a double size run so that you have packs made that you can sell at a higher price (an incentive to pre-order) - and either bank the money from extra sales (hell, you did all the work why not) - OR buy lines of minatures that you want, but that didn’t get enough pre-orders perhaps… in effect the things everyone wants like B-29s cover the cost of the more diverse units that only a limited number want.
Only 10 people want B-29’s - not a problem, if after a certain amount of time you to fail to reach a minimum number of orders you refund them.
If, however, you can’t find enough interest in minatures - then perhaps that is the story here. There simply isn’t enough demand to justify making such a niche product… and I must admit, the 4 people in the UK with Axis and Allies that I know, are quite content with the product as it is and see it is a lite WW2 themed game for a fun evening and wouldn’t want to pay more for plastic minatures.
I would happily pay for more plastic minatures - I want jets, and heavy tanks for starters…
But back to the P500 system - most of the wargames I buy take 2-3 years to reach me… not all charge in advance, most only charge at the moment of placing the production order. So you order the game, 12 months later you get charged, 3 months later the game arrives. I assume it would be the same, you collect pledges to buy - and then the week before placing the order you ask people to cough up the cash… then you place the order. Bingo…
To be honest, complaining to a share-holder run company is going to achieve very little - especailly if you keep buying their products!!! It sends a mixed message - and besides, they want you to buy the game at the end of the day. Letters of complaint will achieve very little to be honest - unless we pay Larry Harris directly ourselves, he works for Avalon Hill and their shareholders - and if didn’t, then he wouldn’t be doing his job properly.
So the game is a compromise between three competing interests, gamers who want a customised luxery product, shareholders who want a profitable game - and poor Mr Harris who has to strike a balance between both groups. :-D
There is good community spirit here - Imperious Leader clearly has dedicated a lot of time and effort to his HHRHE and many of you have spent hours making modified figures, house rules, etc etc.
There are no copy right issues if you make some miniatures in the same colours and scale as the AA peices as long as they are not direct copies and you do not attempt to make commercial sales using their brand.
But I think you would be amazed at what you can get done if you organise yourselves
and you don’t have to argue about what minatures should be produced… if people want KV1s instead of JSIII’s - let’s see which gets the most pre-orders!
All we need to do now is find a sculptor, get quotes - hell, maybe even the person who made the latest A&A peices can leave a note on this board and give us his fee rate.
I regulary pre-order stuff at between $50 and $60 - so if someone was to come up with a bunch of AA mins to expand the AA50 version, I’d be there with my credit card.
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There is good community spirit here - Imperious Leader clearly has dedicated a lot of time and effort to his HHRHE and many of you have spent hours making modified figures, house rules, etc etc.
Thats AARHE and it was not me but 40 others
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@Imperious:
There is good community spirit here - Imperious Leader clearly has dedicated a lot of time and effort to his HHRHE and many of you have spent hours making modified figures, house rules, etc etc.
Thats AARHE and it was not me but 40 others
Well Eisenhower didn’t invade Normandy, seveal thousand Allied troops did - it just appeared that you pulled together all the contributions and make maps for people. I credit you as the ‘ring-leader’ so to speak - if it’s not you, then credit to whoever worked to co-ordinate the efforts of everyone.
Eitherway - I said it’s good community spirit - and sorry for the typo, obvious it’s not haxis and hallies!
Besides, you and 40 others is even better - you are already working together to make the game what people want. In a way this is closer to the actual wargame companies - I would imagine that the majority of people who buy Axis and Allies dont’ frequent these boards, and are quite content with their product, which means it will be hard to shift Avalon Hill very easily.
This is why I feel if we can club together and pool resources, we can get the things we want - as I just don’t see Avalon Hill rushing in to do this for us. Not becuase I think they are nasty, but because there is a credit crunch and luxery products like games always take a hit before other product lines in the market, and commercially they want a game that appeals to thousands not hundreds. Since the minatures for the game is niche at best - I don’t see it being viewed as a sensible decision on a commerical basis, so I expect it will be one or two unique units with each release. Like the block-house in D-Day, crusiers in Guadalcanal… which from a business point of view is a good idea, and has kep the Axis and Allies line going. Frankly I’m thrilled to get the AA50 version.
I only ever get to play each game 3 or 4 times by the time the next one comes out - simply because I play so many other games, so I probably get the least money’s worth out of us all here!
But if we all pool $50 or whatever - probably enough to get some good miniatures made. Better to pre-order up front, then no one person takes liability should everyone decide that they don’t want to buy units after they are made. I’ve ordered the WarGame pieces at $90… and that was just for the Tiger, Maus and Me262.
Hell, I’d do that again for B-29s, KV1s - etc.
Although I’m assuming your one line put down means you think this idea sucks! :-D
It was just a suggestion based on what other wargames do and an attempt to compliment you on your work here with the community made rules and modifcations.
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Count me in. I’d love to have some better quality pieces, unique Italian ships and planes, and just MORE pieces.
Hey, I’m a gadget freak.
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I’m in!
I too spent the big bucks on “The War Game” pieces. They are quite nicely done, unfortunately not to the same scale – and my US player refused to play with Tigers.
Perhaps the folks over at FieldMarshalGames are willing to stick thier necks out and get some nicely sculptured pieces made.
Anyone know Jeff well enough to get him to tell us what landmines to avoid when starting down this path of creating custom scultpures?
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sounds like a good idea, so i’m interested
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Count me in! I want customized, high quality playing pieces!
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Ok…
STAGE 1.
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Who knows Larry Harris and can ask who did the sculpts for Axis and Allies and at what scale are they (tanks, infantry, ships, planes?)
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Who knows Jeff Stein and can ask about his sculpts
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Who is trustworthy enough - or has the capacity to take and hold credit card payments prior to production - i.e. the ‘legal’ side of this.
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I think not. He had these prepared like 5 years ago, but sadly no funds to complete only CAD designs.
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Did he give an estimate on costs per unit?
Now, perhaps someone can correct me if I’m wrong - but is the preliminary design done on computer, then transferred to a sculpt - before going into production?
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I’m in, too
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Craig asked me to comment so here is some dollar figures.
Production costs for injection molded plastic pieces. The cost is set per hour at about $75. Also figure in a $400 set-up fee. You can expect 144 shots per hour. The number of pieces does not make much difference in the production costs. So if you shot one piece at a time it will cost you 52 cents each. I am currently working on a 48 cavity mold and expect the cost to complete the mold at around $65,000.
Consider this cheap as I do all my own piece and mold designing and contract friends who do the work on the side.
The idea of 500 interested people putting up $50 each = $25,000
I’m confident in the sale of my new products but being out of work at this time has held up progress. My mold I am working on will have 3 to 5 tanks and tank destroyers per country and there are 8 countries. Also I have axis and allies infantry units. I design my molds to be interchangeable and will be able to swap out the pieces I want to produce and in any color.
I’ll check back to see if I can answer any other questions you may have.
Best Regards, Jack www.tabletactics.com -
As far as the original question I find the Plastic pieces just fine. Heck I have played enough wargames that cost way more than any Axis and Allies game that used cardboard counters.
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I got 2 questions for TT.
When can I buy this new product ? 5 years from now ? Longer ?
I got your pieces, and they are not the same size, colour and quality as the real A&A pieces. Will the new pieces look more like the A&A pieces ? And in AA50 colours ?
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I got 2 questions for TT.
When can I buy this new product ? 5 years from now ? Longer ?
I got your pieces, and they are not the same size, colour and quality as the real A&A pieces. Will the new pieces look more like the A&A pieces ? And in AA50 colours ?
I would say 6 months after I have the funds to move forward.
All the designs are completed and the cavities have been started. Things are on hold while I am out of work. Unless I find a rich gamer who wants to go in partners. :O)
As for quality of the pieces they will exceed the quality of the A&A pieces. They will even exceed the quality and detail of my current line as I have gotten better at designing and have found some top notch mold makers who enjoy working on my products.
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