AARHE 1939 Edition

[tekkyy]

Yeah I fixed the VC location for my printout.
Rio de Janeiro is no longer inland.
Shanghai is no longer in south east China.
http://home.exetel.com.au/cometo/20070818 AARHE_standard_with_setup.png

[Imperious Leader]

I see you’ve added islands. Can we take the extra step in making a realistic map?
I’ve downloaded heaps of free illustrator world maps.
I hope we can do one of the following…

A. You make the realistic AARHE 1939 map
B. I do the drawing instead, if you don’t have the time

This map has to be as close as possible with AA Revised with a minimal of changes. I have made many realistic maps, but i want to keep the same flavor as revised as to not alienate revised players. If you make a simple step you will get more people to play it.

I dont believe in replacing any other maps. This is adding yet another map. I am considering making a great war version or a Napoleonic version for AARHE as well.

The further idea is to keep the same player aids and just come up with an alternate set up and solve the issues you brought up.

setup
neutrality of major powers and diplomacy
adding the new units
making a turn sequence
some sub tweeks due to better capabilities of subs relative to ASW

[Imperious Leader]

For 1939, Brazil was neutral and Greenland a colony of Denmark, therefore neutral.

Yes i know this, except after a few turns thats not relevant because US declares its dominion of these after 1940 and they are in fact under US control for many more turns then they are not. Thats why Finland , Romania, Bulgaria are colored light grey instead of neutral… because they are soon becoming axis partners. Besides Greenland is not threatened by axis by turn 3.

My views on giving Bulgaria and Trans-Jordan part control of the canal zones are known to you.
You also know my opinion of Rio de Oro, but how about making this the UK colony of Sierra Leone which was an important naval base?

AARHE has no ‘naval bases’ basically any land territory has at least one major military naval base. Sierra Leone is too small of a new territory to make any difference to the game. It does not add anything.

Where are you placing ICs for Russia? In my view the adjacent ICs at Moscow and Stalingrad are a major flaw in AAR, leading to an overemphasis on this area of the map.  If you must keep Moscow-in-the-Urals then place the other IC in Leningrad

The setup has not been made yet. The territory values must remain the same to allow for similar strategies and ideas.

The Italian roundel you show is for the post 1943 Allied co-belligerant airforce. Use the Fasces symbol.  Also for Russia, I suggest the plain red star on black design Nuclear has used on his map, which I think is more effective than the MB hammer and sickle concoction.

The roundels are not relevent. If you want the other roundels DL phase 2/3 maps for AARHE. I want to use the conventional roundel. The Soviet Roundel that i made is just fine and keeps the aesthetics in the same tradition as what people are used to.

What’s going on with VCs, i.e. Russia has 8 but Germany and Italy only 1 each.

They were designed with AARHE 1942 in mind not 1939…

Batavia is on Java not Sumatra
I’m sorry, but putting Chicago in Montana looks awful; make it Denver or Las Vegas
Before Vichy France came about why call south France “Vichy” and French colonies “Free French”?
Bulgaria is mountainous (the Balkans are mainly in Bulgaria), I suggest also mountains for Spain, Sinkiang, China, IEA and Algeria

Chicago has to be in central USA and on Revised map thats the only space where it can go. South France must be Vichy because you keep forgetting that france will fall and Vichy rules are in effect. I cant keep providing a map for every month to denote whatever change you fancy. People are going to spend 50-80 bucks printing  a copy of this map and it has to be one of averages where it offers utility for the BETTER part of the war. Mountains for spain are possible, Bulgaria and Algeria will have mountains

Lybia is spelled Libya

yes will fix

Rhodesia would be better called British East Africa as it extends to Kenya
Does the UK have a land bridge to Ireland?  This doesn’t matter in AAR with inviolable neutrals, but placing the UK roundel over the Irish sea makes this ambiguos so I’d place it clearly within the UK

I am not changing the names of OLD revised territories because thats what people are used too. This is not a wholescale change from Revised. Its a moderate historical edition. Ireland /roundel is in the same place as revised and nobody complained about it since 2004. Its already clear to people who play revised. I am not placing the roundel over England because its not where it is under revised.

[Flashman]

Well, having the Allied roundel for Italy might not matter for people who don’t know what side Italy was on in 1939-43.  Also, the French roundel is incorrect; the centre should be blue, the outer ring red.

But you miss my point about the UK roundel; it’s deliberately put there in Revised to fudge the issue of weather or not to have Northern Ireland.  It doesn’t matter as such because Eire is neutral.
But as I understand it you intend neutrals to be active on this map in which case it’s important to determine the exact border for movement purposes, which is why I suggest moving the roundel to make this perfectly clear given the new rules.

[Imperious Leader]

ok ill move the icon away for clarification. Thats i decent point.

[Nuclear]

I cannot view the map file.  What program are you guys using for that?

[Raider]

@tekkyy:

“I’ve downloaded heaps of free illustrator world maps.”

Where can i get an Adobe Illustrator (ie vector) map(s) from the 1939-1945 era?  Or would you mind uploading them?

[Imperious Leader]

What program are you guys using for that?

DL Illustrator CS2 free trial version to view it or adobe viewer ( also free)

[tekkyy]

@Imperious:

This map has to be as close as possible with AA Revised with a minimal of changes.

Oh ok. Not a full blown variant.

I dont believe in replacing any other maps. This is adding yet another map. I am considering making a great war version or a Napoleonic version for AARHE as well.
The further idea is to keep the same player aids and just come up with an alternate set up and solve the issues you brought up.

Ok not necessarily replace then.
More like make this map and then “update” the 1942 Italy map with new ideas from this project to end the issues I mentioned in that map/scenario.

Though I don’t believe Napoleonic would really fit in the AARHE rules.
Probably better to handle it like one of your 1962 cold war variant. Cherry pick rules to include and then add others.

@Imperious:

Yes i know this, except after a few turns thats not relevant because US declares its dominion of these after 1940 and they are in fact under US control for many more turns then they are not. Thats why Finland , Romania, Bulgaria are colored light grey instead of neutral… because they are soon becoming axis partners. Besides Greenland is not threatened by axis by turn 3.

Although I think we should made use of the neutral invasion or diplomacy dice in AARHE. Could let it be a typical strategy for US to land at Greenland. It’ll be more consistent I feel.
AARHE is about historical realism not historical replay right?

We have Azores which not Iceland?

The setup has not been made yet. The territory values must remain the same to allow for similar strategies and ideas.

Again I think we can leave the option (of adjusting territory income values) on the table .
I mean we’ve added income via new territories and neutral income anyway.

They were designed with AARHE 1942 in mind not 1939…

I take it you mean there were carried from AARHE and going to be updated during this project.

[tekkyy]

@Raider:

Where can i get an Adobe Illustrator (ie vector) map(s) from the 1939-1945 era?  Or would you mind uploading them?

Not sure. My ones were modern. Just tweak it a little.
My purpose was realistic continent lines and locations.

english.freemap.jp
www.plainglob.com

@Nuclear:

What program are you guys using for that?

.ai is the Adobe Illustrator format.
As Imperious mentioned, you could be Adobe Acrobe Reader.
Though in my experience layers are handled properly. So if say IPC values are missing then you’ve gotta use Illustrator.
If its a real problem, I guess me or Imperious could give you a PNG version.

[Imperious Leader]

I made a number of positive changes for aesthetics. I also made the posted changes for all concerned.

It now looks more accurate.

http://www.mediafire.com/upload_complete.php?id=twzkleytua2

http://www.mediafire.com/?d4yjl9rzcth

Tekkyy please jpeg this or png it for others. I think this will be it for the final version unless i missed something.

[Imperious Leader]

We have Azores which not Iceland?

yes considered. The location of this would most likely be with yet another territory.

I think Greenland should also be neutral… but the french labeled as Vichy must remain as the free -french territories because the rules should be easy to convert. The ones not labeled free french are Vichy, the free french ones income goto UK and some forces are deployed in both types of areas. I did make some minor changes for Portugal (added one IP)

Also, you cant cross the Dardanelles unless you control turkey ( land on both sides) this makes a need to attack them or convert as allies. ( more value than normal neutral)

moved Chicago to other side, added mountains to pacific areas and some more European states.

Other than Greenland and possibly Brazil/ cuba i think its done.

edit: all fixed as per new replacement file above.

[tekkyy]

@Imperious:

Tekkyy please jpeg this or png it for others. I think this will be it for the final version unless i missed something.

PNG version
http://www.mediafire.com/?0zcm2cdtcew

Sahara is “Desert” not “Impassable”.

I noticed you’ve improved the coast lines or Denmark, Balkan and Turkey.  :mrgreen:

“Colony of Spain” writing is no longer needed because Spain has its own colour. Like Portugal.

You’ve create new territories in China. We can check a geographic map and might be able to mark additional “Mountainous”.

[Nuclear]

Thanks for the PNG version.  I appricate it.  By the way nice map.

[Imperious Leader]

OK ill get those fixed.

I also will redo India and french indo china adding Burma and Belushistan

I will make Arabia look better and possibly add something for south America as some colony for UK, so they can at least build a infantry

I will also make the oceans come alive with some memory intensive ‘special something’ that makes the water look real.

[Flashman]

A few observations:

China is much better like this; it stops Japan just breezing across it to attack Russia.  I would also make IM and Szechuan mountains.

Hopei should really be Japanese controlled by 1939.

Unless I’m confusing it for somewhere else, Almaty is down in the south-east of Kazakhstan.

I would question the addition of Atlantic islands when this ocean is so small and easily crossed in a turn.

(You knew this was coming) but R de O really IS in the wrong place. Placing it correctly also means that you have a western sahara territory that is passable (Algeria-RdeO-FWA), but ONLY at the cost of violating Spanish neutrality, which gives the place some meaning at last.

Here’s the biggie: MOSCOW

With the German/Soviet border much further west I have to say that the AAR placement of Moscow looks even more absurd.  I know you want to retain the fundamental structure of AAR, but the main reason for placing Moscow in the Urals is lost on a map of this date, so please consider:
Placing Moscow in the West Russia territory
Renaming “Russia” as Urals
Readjusting the IPC income accordingly, i.e. West Russia 8, Urals 2
You could even divide “Urals” north/south with the southern rump becoming “East Russia”

Otherwise, it’s going to be awfully difficult for the Germans to get that far, especially since they start on such a relatively low income base.  Of course it puts Moscow 1 space further from Japan, and with the new China the Japanese aren’t going to threaten Moscow for a while; but then this should open up less predicatable (and more historical?) strategies for Japan anyway.

[Imperious Leader]

I cant make those changes because:

1. they either don’t effect the game in any meaningful way are aren’t really historically inaccurate to any measurable degree and

2. they dramatically effect play balance. The game has to maintain the same integrity when it comes to where ( e.g. how many spaces) territories lay.

The rules will easily fix any issues with Soviet income ( they will collect none or less until at war much like USA will until they are at war.

[Flashman]

But Moscow in Europe would still be MORE spaces away from the German front line units, it would effect gameplay in I think a positive way (it makes Moscow attainable for Germany) and it’s a hell of a lot more historically accurate.
By doing a 1939 scenario you’re entirely destroying any game balance surviving from the AAR version, so why not take the opportunity to put right one of the most obvious absurdities of the game?

This placing of Moscow where it ain’t seems to be a sacred cow with some folks.

Perhaps I’m just confused as to what is meant by “Historical Edition”.

[tekkyy]

@Imperious:

I also will redo India and french indo china adding Burma and Belushistan

Yeah we made new territories in China. Adding new territory in India would be consistent.

I will make Arabia look better

Might as well slightly adjust the Gibraltar coastline too.
Narrow it so its more obvous like Denmark (strait interdiction).

Possibly map change…its a bit strange you have to survive thru Gibraltar strait before you can invade it?
But then if we could adjust the SZ 12/13 boundary it means you can amphibious attack it from US.

I cant make those changes because:

You should answer them slowly because Flashman’s point about Spanish neutrality sounds like it has meaningful effect.

[Imperious Leader]

But Moscow in Europe would still be MORE spaces away from the German front line units, it would effect gameplay in I think a positive way (it makes Moscow attainable for Germany) and it’s a hell of a lot more historically accurate.
By doing a 1939 scenario you’re entirely destroying any game balance surviving from the AAR version, so why not take the opportunity to put right one of the most obvious absurdities of the game?

You miss the whole point in this: The variant must allow very similar ideas/ strategies and moving MOscow one closer changes ungodly number of things.

1. the spaces have to be large enough to allow for the pieces on the map ( even if they are double size as OOB)

2. The OOB playtested rules have already decided that BASED ON THIS MAP MOSCOW NEEDS TO BE IN EXACTLY THE TERRITORY IT IS. Larry and his gang have playtested the map and found this solution. It less relevant if its aesthetically in the incorrect place because playtesting demonstrated the need to keep it X number of territories away from Germany proper. Try to understand this. Moscow was put their for a reason .