Quick Question

Yes the Arm and Inf do get to shoot back, the only Unit that can’t shoot at Ftrs in the game is submarines ( or Bombers for that matter. )

@Randmacts:

Yes the Arm and Inf do get to shoot back, the only Unit that can’t shoot at Ftrs in the game is submarines ( or Bombers for that matter. )

oh, you mean that subs ALSO can not hit bombers since subs can not hit aircraft

sounded like: also, bombers couldn’t hit ftrs

@axis_roll:

@Randmacts:

Yes the Arm and Inf do get to shoot back, the only Unit that can’t shoot at Ftrs in the game is submarines ( or Bombers for that matter. )

oh, you mean that subs ALSO can not hit bombers since subs can not hit aircraft

sounded like: also, bombers couldn’t hit ftrs

I dunno, Axis, have you ever SEEN a bomber shooting back at a fighter on defense?  They’re not horribly accurate either.

Anyway, I always wondered why the rule was Submarines cannot return fire.  They had a few guns on their decks they could have used, no?

@Cmdr:

Anyway, I always wondered why the rule was Submarines cannot return fire.  They had a few guns on their decks they could have used, no?

Deck guns on subs were mostly designed to sink wounded ships, so the sub wouldn’t have to waste a torpedo to finish them off.  They weren’t terribly effective for AA fire.

Dunno, maybe it was just the bad WWII Submarine Simulator game, but I thought they had a 50 caliber browning style machine gun (perfectly good to shoot prop planes down) as well as a 2 pound deck cannon?

True, some subs were mounted with machine guns.  A single machine gun could be effective against one or two fighters, but it would hardly make a difference against a squadron.  One sub piece probably represents three or four subs at most.  Based on the capacity of WW-II carriers, a fighter piece probably represents somewhere in the ballpark of 30-40 planes.

The firepower of four machine guns could threaten the planes, and probably bring down one or two, but the odds of wiping them all out before the subs are toast is pretty slim.

transports shouldn’t be that good against plains ether, but they atleast get a def 1 that hits plains.

@Pervavita:

transports shouldn’t be that good against plains ether, but they atleast get a def 1 that hits plains.

Again, it is not a single TRN.  Each TRN is a small convoy… light support ships and DSTs, regular TRNs, and a few Liberty Ships.  Probably 8 ships total:  2 Liberty, 5 Merchant Marine, 1 Escort.

Try not to think about realism too much.
When I first bought the game, my friends were immediately complaining about the rules.
I tried to justify OOB rules.
But it soon gave me headaches.

A single machine gun might down a single air unit if lucky,
At the strategic level, the probability is approximately zero.

Even powerful fixed AA placements had a hard time hitting air units, you thing mobile AAs in infantry or tank divisions can do anything? Let alone the little guns on submarine deck.

Destroyer guns had a hard time penetrating battleship deck.
You thing guns on auxiliary ships (transport piece) can do anything?

…

Now, lets hope we haven’t confused the OP.
Infantry kills fighters yes.

Equally amusing is bombers killing fighters, I guess the fighter flew straight under the bomber so the bomb would catch it

Really boggling is the transport killing the battleship. From what I remember Larry Harris wants to make it so transports defend at 0 and can’t be taken except as the final naval casualties for the next version of A&A, which IMO is a great transition. No more fodder tps randomly killing planes and battleships -_-

Bombers killing FIGs is not an uncommon thing.  WWII era bombers were loaded with gun emplacements.

Even into the jet age there were FIGs taken out by bomber gunners, with the last major known incident known to have been by Airman First Class Albert Moore who took out a MIG-21 as a tail gunner in a B-52D “Diamond Lil” over Vietnam during Operation Linebacker 2.

Diamond Lil is currently on display at USAFA in Colorado.

Thanks for the info Switch, boy did I have some misconceptions 

Yea, havn’t you read Flight of the Old Dog by Dale Brown?

Sorry, couldn’t help it!

Now if you want to get into some other aircraft realism issues, see what happens when the LRA tech for FIGs runs into JET FIGHTER tech.

Starting in November 1950 we began to learn what a fiasco it is for a P-51 (by then called an F-51 Mustang) to engage a jet aircraft…

The Yalu River valley was not a fun place to be in an F-51 back then…

the community has sugguested so many realism changes

these changes would make the game logical and intuitive to an adult

but the complexity would fail the G8+ requirement or whatever it was