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Question about UK1 strategy after SZ110 not cleared on G1.


  • '10

    I have seen many players on this forum talking about what they do and buy on G1.
    From these posts, i have observed that a good proportion of players don’t attack SZ110 on G1, the same is true from some games i watched in the "play boardgames"section of this forum.

    So, here is the position at the end of G1: SZ 111 + SZ112 = cleared  At least one of these 3 SZ has not been attacked (or the attack failed, leaving one destroyer or cruiser alive) : SZ 91, SZ 106 and SZ 109. Normandy is cleared.
    NCM: 2 fighters to Southern Italy.
    G1 buy : doesn’t really matter(*)

    Now, UK1.

    Combat move : doesn’t really matter as long as it allows these NCM (*)
    NCM : Fleet from SZ98 to SZ 92, Battleship + Cruiser from SZ 110 to SZ 92, ship left on the atlantic (destroyer, or cruiser, or if you are lucky both) go to SZ 104.

    Now, at the end of UK1, UK has actually a fleet ! It is well alive, it threatens seriously the Italian fleet, as well as it can come back to UK to give a hard time to Germany because Gibraltar cannot be closed before UK2.

    What do you guys think of that ? Can you live with the idea of UK having such a fleet (and well positioned) from the very begining of the game ? If someone spot a move that prevent this UK strat after that particular G1, please, let me know.

    Also, if you think that’s not worth it and UK has better things to do than that strat, feel free to say it.

    (*) Just to be clear: what i mean when i say a buy or move doesn’t really matter, is the fact that it can’t prevent the UK Strat described, on that particular G1. Of course, any move or buy is important in itself.



  • It seems like a valid move, although I would be a bit worried about the getting wiped out by Germany and Italy. One way they could do it would be:

    Round 1:
    Italy attacks the French fleet in sz93 with 1 sub, 1 tac, 2 ftr. Consolidate navy in sz97 and airforce in Southern Italy.

    Round 2:
    Germany invades Morocco locking the UK fleet in the Med and putting it’s navy in sz91 (this assumes that they attacked the 2 cruisers in sz112 with their navy and reinforced with at least a carrier). Invades Greece and moves it’s airforce to Southern Italy.

    The UK then has three choices:

    1. Attack the German fleet with airforce (and possibly any naval vessels they bought or survived in round 1). Not much chance of success and heavy losses to valuable aircraft.
    2. Attack the Italian fleet in sz97. Has little chance of success since the 3 fighters in Gibraltar cannot participate in the battle.
    3. Retreat to sz98 and attempt to escape through the Suez. They are then vulnerable to attack from Italy in round 2 and Germany in round 3. The UK could increase it’s chances it’s survival by building an airbase in Egypt and landing the three Gibraltar fighters there. The Indian fleet would probably not be able to reinforce since it would have to have been moved in round 1, at which point most Italian players would sacrifice their transport/s to take Syria and block the Suez. This is probably the best option but pulls UK airforce, navy, and resources away from London making it more susceptible to Sealion.

    The only way around this is for the UK and France to reinforce Gibraltar and Morocco on round 1 so that Germany can’t take it. Although if Germany buys two transports and has them in position in sz112 they will probably win anyway.

    Given these points I would say that consolidation in sz92 is a good idea when some combination of the following conditions are in play:

    1. Germany has one or no transports in sz112.
    2. At least one of the Atlantic transports survive to reinforce Morocco/Gibraltar along with the Med transport.
    3. Germany’s bomber/s are not in position to help in the attack on Morocco.
    4. Germany’s fleet is not strong enough to effectively block sz91.


  • And I followed the Wikipedia link in your sig, three cheers for a Canadian badass!



  • I have had no problems clearing the entire British fleet around England and in SZ 91, while losing nothing but subs in the process.


  • '10

    @ThomasJefferson:

    I have had no problems clearing the entire British fleet around England and in SZ 91, while losing nothing but subs in the process.

    Did you do this one time with lucky dice?



  • @ThomasJefferson:

    I have had no problems clearing the entire British fleet around England and in SZ 91, while losing nothing but subs in the process.

    Play more games then.


  • '10

    @Sgt.:

    I

    Round 2:
    Germany invades Morocco locking the UK fleet in the Med and putting it’s navy in sz91 (this assumes that they attacked the 2 cruisers in sz112 with their navy and reinforced with at least a carrier). Invades Greece and moves it’s airforce to Southern Italy.

    How exactly does Germany manage that ? A surface warship has been left SZ 104 on UK1…So there is no way Germany can go to Morocco on their combat move. Also, but i could be wrong on that one : i thought that only the control of Gibraltar was important for the control of the strait.

    By the way, thanks for taking the time to think about this strat and post it here, sarge.



  • @Kobu:

    @ThomasJefferson:

    I have had no problems clearing the entire British fleet around England and in SZ 91, while losing nothing but subs in the process.

    Play more games then.

    you are patronizing me and I do not appreciate that. I have done it the 6 times I have played with alpha 2. Sometimes I had bad dice and I lose some planes, but the majority of the time I simply put 1 sub into 111, 110, 109 and enough firepower to finish off the boats in one round of combat, and the boats normally do not get 2 hits, it happens on occasion, but its a rarity. The Britis learned after the first time not to scramble fighters because they need them to prevent me from landing turn 2 with the 5 transports I mobilized turn 1 in SZ 112, and they generally lose fighters they cannot afford to lose if they scramble.


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    so you build 4 transports instead of 3 transports 1 destroyer?  Interesting.

    That’s a bit gutsy,  how do you protect your fleet in Seazone 110?

    What British planes do you strike at? And do you or do you not protect the Italian fleet?



  • @ThomasJefferson:

    @Kobu:

    @ThomasJefferson:

    I have had no problems clearing the entire British fleet around England and in SZ 91, while losing nothing but subs in the process.

    Play more games then.

    you are patronizing me and I do not appreciate that. I have done it the 6 times I have played with alpha 2. Sometimes I had bad dice and I lose some planes, but the majority of the time I simply put 1 sub into 111, 110, 109 and enough firepower to finish off the boats in one round of combat, and the boats normally do not get 2 hits, it happens on occasion, but its a rarity. The Britis learned after the first time not to scramble fighters because they need them to prevent me from landing turn 2 with the 5 transports I mobilized turn 1 in SZ 112, and they generally lose fighters they cannot afford to lose if they scramble.

    A bit of odds calculating would show your statement shouldn’t reflect reality, and it wasn’t even true.



  • @Sgt.:

    Round 2:
    Germany invades Morocco locking the UK fleet in the Med and putting it’s navy in sz91 (this assumes that they attacked the 2 cruisers in sz112 with their navy and reinforced with at least a carrier). Invades Greece and moves it’s airforce to Southern Italy.

    The rest of your analysis may be true, but the bolded assumption is false.  Control of Morocco does not influence movement into or out of the Med.  Only Gibraltar has that value (similar to control of Denmark to the Danish Straits).  Unless Germany can take Gib (not Morocco), Britain remains able to move back out to SZ 91.



  • @Axisplaya:

    @Sgt.:

    I

    Round 2:
    Germany invades Morocco locking the UK fleet in the Med and putting it’s navy in sz91 (this assumes that they attacked the 2 cruisers in sz112 with their navy and reinforced with at least a carrier). Invades Greece and moves it’s airforce to Southern Italy.

    How exactly does Germany manage that ? A surface warship has been left SZ 104 on UK1…So there is no way Germany can go to Morocco on their combat move. Also, but i could be wrong on that one : i thought that only the control of Gibraltar was important for the control of the strait.

    By the way, thanks for taking the time to think about this strat and post it here, sarge.

    That’s right, I forgot about you saying you would move a ship to sz104. In that case there’s not anything that Germany can do to stop it really.

    The only thing they can do is use their subs to take out the destroyers in sz106/109 and the cruiser in sz91 to limit the number of ships available for blocking. But even if all of those attacks somehow succeed that still allows the UK to use it’s cruiser in sz110 as a block. Even with this diminished UK fleet in sz92, Italy still has no chance of taking it out. The UK fleet is then free to retreat to sz89.

    The only downside I can see to this is that Italy will have the med fairly uncontested for the foreseeable future. The UK fleet won’t be able to wipe out a consolidated Italian fleet with backup, especially if it is in sz97. It seems to me to be preferable to take out one or both of the Italian fleet in order to better dominate Africa, but if you were worried about Sealion and still had the ships in sz110 then it might be safer to consolidate. It also gives a nice jump start to operations in the Atlantic.

    In terms of clearing the entire UK fleet around England it is possible if you don’t send any planes down to Southern Italy to scramble with the Italians. Although with the threat of a strong Sealion the UK would probably be more cautious in the Med and may not go for an attack. I think defending sz112 shouldn’t be a problem if you put in a sub into the previous attack there. Worst case scenario you end up with 1 damaged bb, 1 ca, 3 ftr vs 3ftr.

    One question for Thomas Jefferson. Do you put planes into the attack on sz109 or just rely on subs? I would think that the UK would be very tempted to scramble it’s four fighters to help defend the transport. It seems to me it would be better to just put in two subs. Or use those two subs to take out the transport and destroyer in sz106 which prevents UK from reinforcing against Sealion.



  • @kcdzim:

    The rest of your analysis may be true, but the bolded assumption is false.  Control of Morocco does not influence movement into or out of the Med.  Only Gibraltar has that value (similar to control of Denmark to the Danish Straits).  Unless Germany can take Gib (not Morocco), Britain remains able to move back out to SZ 91.

    Really? I thought they had to hold control both. Well I suppose with two transports and a bomber in range Germany might be able to take Gibraltar but it seems unlikely.


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