Teslas (Allies) vs Private Panic (Axis) in 1940 Global
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If you were more afraid of one of these things happening than I seem to think them effective, let me know. If there was a choice I didn’t see, let me know. At this point, the deed is done. Spain killed most of my damn landing force and redeploying for something else a turn later isn’t an option. We’re committed now!
Stupid god damn Franco and his facist assholes.
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fascist*
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Think this is my fourth game of 40G. As I said previously I only started on it 2 or 3 months back.
I can see why you did the “neutral crush”. With Spain and Turkey as allied launch pads Germany will be mightily distracted. Can see that you need both. You certainly don’t want me gaining infantry stacks next door to either of Gibraltar or the middle east.
I did think I had the European coastline pretty well covered and really had not thought of you doing what you did. You did take me by surprise! I can see the advantages of your strategy.
The UK lost 18 TUV taking Turkey, 9 in Afghanistan and US 27 TUV in Portugal / Spain - 54 TUV in total - if I can count! I will gain 6 inf in Sweden and 2 (?) in Switzerland - 24 TUV. So a net TUV swing of 78. I’d be pretty pleased if I inflicted a 78 TUV battle loss on you.
Against that you gain 4 ipcs per turn - so too small to be relevant to the decision. It’s all about the 2 invasion platforms and what you manage to do with them. France should be able to fight back, but the Balkans is bare. Russia is likely to gain some respite. We will see ……
Also see your USA fleet heading to Japan while my IJN is out of position. Don’t see that you can take Japan, unless I am an idiot, but you have other options and the distraction value of your sally will likely be considerable. We’ll see how I cope with it. J were doing pretty well until now.
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You are right, Japan mainland is not an option. It simply never is unless Japan falls asleep at the wheel.
Targets/Objectives for America in the upper Pacific for a distracted Japan:
-Korea is available if you let me hold it. An American factory there is hilarious, though Japan can usually knock America back out before it gets to be too troublesome.
-Japanese factory on Manchuria. Taking the territory blows it up and resurrects china.
-Giving Russia back some far east territories helps them against Germany a tiny bit, and slows down Japan a tiny bit.
-Japan proper is worth 8 IPCs (+3 from Korea if it’s not taken), meaning one round of convoys of a US fleet there can cost Japn a destroyer. Not bad.
-It pulls the IJN back from ANZAC/Middle East. It may also pull a portion of the airforce back, though an airbase on Kwangsi means that the Japanese can keep their options fairly well open.
-ANZAC, with Japan distracted, can attempt to expand a bit. If UK Pac is still alive, it can attempt the same, though to a lesser degree.
I also, still, don’t see it in terms of TUV swing. Far too crude of a measurement. Positioning matters in this game to such an extent as to rival that of any economical aspect. Rival, not supersede, mind you. The Swedes are nice, and save Norway forever, but they are not in a position to help on any active front (of which there are now three) until 3 turns from now. As such, their value is lessened. Indeed, the IPC difference is minor. UK gained 2, US 3, and Germany 3. At this particular stage of the game, I think that actually benefits Germany the most.
Fourth game? Well hot damn, son, you’re doing alright for yourself.
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Agree, tes, that it is NOT about TUV swing. Just attempting to understand the degree of advantage you need to gain from positioning (ie those two platforms) for it to work in your favour.
Yeh - perhaps 4th of 40G, but poss 15 of 41 and 10 of 42.2 to build on.
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And aren’t you already in like 30 games on the forums by now? I don’t know how you can manage to keep them all in your head.
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heh heh! - that includes the 5 forum games …
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TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9
Game History
Round: 5
Purchase Units - ANZAC
ANZAC buy 1 artillery, 1 destroyer and 1 submarine; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;Combat Move - ANZAC
Non Combat Move - ANZAC
2 infantry moved from Egypt to Trans-Jordan
2 transports moved from 62 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone
1 artillery and 2 infantry moved from South Australia to Queensland
1 transport moved from 39 Sea Zone to 76 Sea ZonePlace Units - ANZAC
1 artillery placed in Queensland
1 destroyer and 1 submarine placed in 54 Sea ZoneTurn Complete - ANZAC
ANZAC collect 10 PUs; end with 10 PUs total -
TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9
Game History
Round: 5
Combat Move - French
Non Combat Move - French
1 infantry moved from Tanganyika Territory to Kenya
1 infantry moved from Egypt to Trans-JordanTurn Complete - French
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Alright, sorry it took so long to get around to that.
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Looks like I forgot to use my Italian units in Russia again! What an idiot!
If I SBR Russia you have 5 UK and 2 R fighters there. Can all of these intercept?
I believe I can escort with both fighters and TBs? All air units in the interceptor battle throw 1 or less - including the bombers?
Your facility AA only throw for any bombers attacking each of them? But G losses don’t have to be those bombers?
TBs can only bomb airfields and harbours? Do they have to bomb and so incur AA?
Sorry about all the questions, but this is a big one!
BTW am also considering attacking Spain with 4 bombers, 2 fighters and 1 inf. Just to show I am not focused on TUV!
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-Yes, all friendly fighters can intercept, so 7.
-I think that yes, tac bombers can also throw 1’s in the air battle, but please look this up in the rules to be sure. I’d do it now but I’m at work. Maybe even cite the text and page number here in this thread if you want to be friendly so I can remember it for later.
-The facility AA only shoots at what’s attacking it. TripleA does not handle this correctly I’ve heard. See below☼
-Tactical bombers can only bomb non-factory facilities, yes. They are subject to AA fire while doing so just like strat bombers are.
Questions are never a problem!
☼
Example 1:1:
Combat move: 4 Strategic bombers descend on London with 4 fighters covering them.2:
Air battle: Every plane participating rolls a 1. On a 1, they kill an enemy plane. You are allowed to choose whatever casualties here that you like.3a:
The fighters are now finished with their combat move.3b:
Surviving strategic bombers (and tactical bombers, but in this example we have none) must choose their target facilities. For this example, let’s say 2 bombers to the major factory, and 1 each to the air base and naval base.4:
AA fire from facilities. Each facility fires at the plane or planes attacking it. If hit by AA fire, they are immediately destroyed. In TripleA, I believe this is handled all at once, and you may select your casualties in some way. In the actual rules, this is not the case. If the air base AA hits the bomber attacking it, you must lose the bomber attacking the air base. You could not instead choose to lose a bomber attacking the factory.The same goes for bringing tacs/strategic bombers. You must roll a die per plane. If all incoming planes are of the same type and coming from the same place (IE, all strategic bombers, and all from the same territory), then you can save time by just rolling all at once–indeed, they can only lose strategic bombers, and it doesn’t really matter which one if they’re all coming from the same place. But if both types of bombers are going after a facility, or planes are coming from multiple territories, you should keep track of that, and roll them 1 by 1. Maybe you’d prefer your strat bomber flying from 6 spaces away is lost, and not the one that still has 5 more range to play with on the noncom, but too bad.
5:
Any surviving bombers then roll for damage on the facilities.6:
On the noncom, planes fly home as normal.What I don’t know for sure:
Q1:
Can planes be sent as escort even if they don’t bomb? For instance, if I have 15 french strategic bombers in Paris, and I want to bomb the major factory in Western Germany, but Germany has 5 fighters there, may I send all 15 french strat bombers to take place in the air battle or to discourage one, but then after that only have 3 of those bombers actually bomb a facility and risk dying to AA fire?Q2:
The tactical bombers can be asked the same question. Can they be sent only as escorts, or must they bomb a facility if sent?Maybe check the FAQ thread over in the global forum, or just ask. Again, I’m at work, and spent all my damn lunch time writing this post :p
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Woops, I am wrong. And a co-worker I play with has a copy of the PDF on his machine.
Okay, from the rules:
Each industrial complex, air base, and naval base has its
own antiaircraft system. If there is an AAA (antiaircraft
artillery) unit in the targeted territory, don’t roll for
it. Those units are used to protect combat units. Each
complex and base rolls one die against each bomber
directly attacking it (regardless of the number of
bombers). For each “1” rolled, a bomber of the attacker’s
choice is immediately removed.Emphasis mine. So, you still must subdivide into groups, but you can, indeed, choose which AA casualties you want to lose, per facility.
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In response to my above to questions (Q1 and Q2),
After the air battle is complete, or if there were no
defending fighter interceptors, surviving fighter escorts
are considered to have retreated. They don’t participate
in the actual bombing raid, are not subject to antiaircraft
fire, and will remain in the territory until the Noncombat
Move phase. Any surviving attacking bombers carry out
the bombing raid. If the territory offers more than one
target, the bombers may be divided into groups, and each
assigned a specific target (tactical bombers may not attack
industrial complexes).Emphasis mine. This could imply that any surviving bombers must carry out a bomber raid, but that is not entirely clear. It does not say anything about “may carry out”, either. So this is up for some bit of interpretation. By the direct, 100% syntactical reading of it, however, I would lean toward it meaning that they must. However, in the interest of what I think (which has no bearing on how it actually is), it makes more sense to have the player be able to decide to scrub the bombing mission if he so chose for any or all of the bombers present.
So I still have no answers for either of my questions. Maybe you can ask like I said, or check the FAQ thread?
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-I think that yes, tac bombers can also throw 1’s in the air battle, but please look this up in the rules to be sure. I’d do it now but I’m at work. Maybe even cite the text and page number here in this thread if you want to be friendly so I can remember it for later.
Attacking tactical bombers do indeed roll 1’s. Whether or not they must continue on to bomb something, or may only do escort runs like fighters can, plays back on to my two questions above.
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Thanks tes. Glad I got you to devote your lunchtime to something worthwhile for a change!
Have put the questions up on the 40 Global board.
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P@nther has put up a reply which seems to answer everything. Also note the following issue with Triple A:
4) SBR –
a) When you are attacking more than one facility in the same territory, Triple A incorrectly fires AA at all bombers together, allowing the attacker to choose tactical bombers illegally, potentially. Each facility should fire AA at only the bombers attacking that facility. (is in Triple A notes)
c) Triple A does not allow SBR of a territory that you walked into on combat move (is in Triple A notes)Note point a). Do we accept or attempt to manually correct somehow?
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What we can do: manually correct.
Send what you’re going to send, and have the air battle, if any, take place. Then assign all of your tac/strat bombers to bomb the air base, regardless of what their actual target is.
The AA dice will be rolled for all of your planes. You will take losses. Ignore these losses. At the end of your combat move, replace them.
Then post here what groups of what planes you’re sending against which facilities. I will then use the in-game diceroller to roll the AA guns correctly. I will list the order in a thread for what facilities I rolled.
With those results, you can then use the ingame dice roller to roll for damage in the same order as I rolled AA.
Now, if you are just sending a bunch of strat bombers to the major factory, then we don’t have to do this at all, the way TripleA handles it is fine. If you’re going to be bombing the air base in moscow as well, then we’ll have to do this.
What all are you thinking about bombing? Maybe we don’t have to worry about all of that.
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Will have to look at it again tes and am out of time now …
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TripleA Move Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9
Game History
Round: 6
Research Technology - Germans
Purchase Units - Germans
Germans buy 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 bomber, 1 fighter, 5 infantry and 3 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 1 PUs;Politics - Germans
Trigger Germans Friendly With TrueNeutrals: Setting captureUnitOnEnteringBy to Germans:Italians:Japanese for territoryAttatchment attached to Chile
Trigger Germans Friendly With TrueNeutrals: Setting captureUnitOnEnteringBy to Germans:Italians:Japanese for territoryAttatchment attached to Argentina
Trigger Germans Friendly With TrueNeutrals: Setting captureUnitOnEnteringBy to Germans:Italians:Japanese for territoryAttatchment attached to Venezuela
Trigger Germans Friendly With TrueNeutrals: Setting captureUnitOnEnteringBy to Germans:Italians:Japanese for territoryAttatchment attached to Sweden
Trigger Germans Friendly With TrueNeutrals: Setting captureUnitOnEnteringBy to Germans:Italians:Japanese for territoryAttatchment attached to Switzerland
Trigger Germans Friendly With TrueNeutrals: Setting captureUnitOnEnteringBy to Germans:Italians:Japanese for territoryAttatchment attached to Spain
Trigger Germans Friendly With TrueNeutrals: Setting captureUnitOnEnteringBy to Germans:Italians:Japanese for territoryAttatchment attached to Portugal
Trigger Germans Friendly With TrueNeutrals: Setting captureUnitOnEnteringBy to Germans:Italians:Japanese for territoryAttatchment attached to Turkey
Trigger Germans Friendly With TrueNeutrals: Setting captureUnitOnEnteringBy to Germans:Italians:Japanese for territoryAttatchment attached to Saudi Arabia
Trigger Germans Friendly With TrueNeutrals: Setting captureUnitOnEnteringBy to Germans:Italians:Japanese for territoryAttatchment attached to Afghanistan
Trigger Germans Friendly With TrueNeutrals: Setting captureUnitOnEnteringBy to Germans:Italians:Japanese for territoryAttatchment attached to Mozambique
Trigger Germans Friendly With TrueNeutrals: Setting captureUnitOnEnteringBy to Germans:Italians:Japanese for territoryAttatchment attached to AngolaCombat Move - Germans
3 bombers and 1 fighter moved from Western Germany to Spain
1 fighter moved from France to Spain
1 infantry moved from Normandy Bordeaux to Spain
3 bombers moved from Novgorod to Russia
5 fighters moved from Smolensk to Russia
1 infantry moved from Ukraine to Western Ukraine
1 infantry moved from Ukraine to Rostov
4 artilleries and 7 infantry moved from Belarus to Bryansk
2 armour and 4 mech_infantrys moved from Eastern Poland to Bryansk
1 armour and 2 mech_infantrys moved from Ukraine to Bryansk
2 armour and 1 mech_infantry moved from Novgorod to Bryansk
9 armour, 9 artilleries, 14 infantry and 10 mech_infantrys moved from Smolensk to Bryansk
1 tactical_bomber moved from Smolensk to Western Ukraine
1 tactical_bomber moved from Smolensk to Rostov
1 tactical_bomber moved from Smolensk to Western Ukraine
1 tactical_bomber moved from Smolensk to Rostov
1 tactical_bomber moved from Smolensk to Western Ukraine
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