@Navalland said in Artillery to defend at 3?:
Just trying to figure out the most balanced unit set up and wondering if +1 defense to artillery would be good idea. Probably better to leave it as it is right now.
Ya I would for now.
AARHE: Phase 3: land Combat
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ok good
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Hi there,
I wasn’t sure if I should post some possible house rules here or start a new post, but I thought that I’d start it here first. For the sake of brevity I’ll post my house rules for all aspects (land, sea, air etc.):
Regarding Neutrals: Â If a player invades or commits to a fly-over of a neutral territory, the opposing players capital that is closest rolls 3 dice for the amount of IPCs’ to immediatly spend for the defense of the neutral territory. Neutral territories are not controlled by major powers and neutral troops will NEVER move off of territory in question. Neither can a major power place additional troops in a neutral territory. In effect, the neutral territory has an army that sits there and does nothing.
**Regarding Aircraft: Â **
Flight limits: In order to accurately recreate the true distances achievable by aircraft, strict limitations are imposed. Â Carrier based fighters have a flight range of one to reach their target* (one move to get off the carrier, and a 2nd move to land on the carrier). Attacks must be carried out in the same sea zone. All other fighters and bombers have a flight range of 2 during th combat move. Non-combat moves have a maximum of 2 for fighters and 3 for bombers**. Flight limits do not apply to Strategic bombing raids and their escorts.
*An exception to this rule is in the English channel  between France and England, Norway and France, and the Straight of Gibraltar. Fighters have a range of 4 to reach across the straight and back, the same applies to bombers.
**Range is extended by 1 with the Long range aircraft tech.One-Sea Zone: Â Aircraft may enter only 1 sea zone during a combat move*.
Eg. Â fighter in italy enters the Med. sea, and lands back on Italian soil. 1 sea-zone.
Eg. Japan may not attack the phillipines because the aircraft would enter more than 1 sea zone. However, Japan could still attack units in the Sea of Japan, and carrier-based fighters could attack Manchuria. Aircraft units only entered 1 sea zone.
*the 1 sea zone rule does NOT apply to Kamikaze aircraft.
Fighter Interception/Passive Airborne Interdiction: Fighters based on land territories may attempt to intercept enemy aircraft as they LEAVE a territory, temporarily making the intercepting fighters the attackers for up to 2 rounds of combat*.
*Enemy aircraft already retreating from an air-battle cannot be intercepted by aircraft that have already fought in the battle they are retreating from. eg. England takes 2 fighters and a bomber to Berlin from France. German AA takes their shot and scores no hits. English bombers begin to attack german ground units, and German airforce retaliates. English lose 1 fighter, and begin eturning to France. The german fighter from Germany may NOT attempt to intercept the english aircraft.
(Side Note) Fighter escort of bombers: Fighters may escort bombers for all or part of the flight range.
eg. If bombers LEAVE their escort in he English channel as they ENTER France, the 2 fighters in the English channel may provide escort for the bombers during interception.
PAI: Fighters adjacent to sea zones containing friendly units MAY CHOOSE to participate in the defense of a friendly Naval unit at the Defenders’ discretiom. The aircraft may only enter the defense during the 3rd subsequent round of combat and automatically break-contact if all friendly naval units are destroyed, this does not apply to friendly aircraft or the defense of land units.
PAI: Aircraft based on coastal or island territories may choose to passively intercept enemy naval units in their immediate sea zone as the enemy attempts to LEAVE the immediate sea-zone. However, in order to illustrate the difficulties in finding ships, the Passive Intercepting player must roll 1 die per aircraft to “find” the enemy. This is done according to fighters, then bombers. (ie. roll for fighter find, and for bomber find). the aircraft “find” the enemy on  a roll of 2 or less*//*. The Passive Interception lasts for 1 round and 1 round only.
*Long range air tech raises this to 3 or less.
** The “find” roll is not required for PAI in the Med. Sea, Red Sea, or the Baltic Sea (the Sea Zone directly North of Germany).
*** Aircraft that do not “find” the enemy vessel, go home. Those that do “find” the enemy vessel, may engage in 1 round of combat only.Eg. Manchuria = Sea of Japan, Italy = Middle Med., Phillipines = Phillipines sea-zone etc.
Regarding the Navy:
No combat required: No combat is required between opposing navies in the Pacific or Indian Oceans, but moves still end in enemy-occupied sea-zones, nor is the “Find” roll required if surface vessels are involved in direct combat with the opposing navy. However, aircraft must still roll a “Find” roll for vessels at sea in the Pacific and Indian Oceans*//*.
*The roll still applies to the Atlantic for aircraft actively in search of submarines, but not for destroyers actively in search of submarines.
** Naval movement is subject to Passive Airborne Interdiction. The “Find” roll is still required.
*** The “Find” roll is 2 or lessSubmarines: Â
-Submarines are NOT subject to PAI, but are subject to Active Airborne/Surface Interdiction. A “Find” roll must be rolled for aircraft, sub is “found” at 2 or less. Destroyers must roll a “Find” roll, at 3 or less.
-Submarines may enact Passive Interdiction of Allied vessels, but must roll a “Find” roll of 2 or less.
-Wolf-pack tech only raises the attack capability, not the actual find possibility.
U-boat Passive Interdiction lasts for 1 round of combat ONLY
eg. 4 submarines lie off the coast of the U.S. 2 English transports and a BB enter the zone, the Subs may choose whether or not to Passively Interdict these vessels by searching for, and then engaging these vessels. More subs = better chance to find and sink the English vessels.
Regarding Amphib. Assaults:
-Transports may carry up to their full load for an amphib assault, but only off-load 1 unit per round of combat (risky to fully load a transport, but even more so to not load up enough  :evil: the choices, the choices).
-Amphib assaults may be assisted by navy, air, and land units. Just make sure that if you retreat from an attack that all amphib units go to amphib, and land units back to the territory they came from etc.
-Aircraft may break-off combat during an amphib assault at the beginning of any round, but may not re-join the assault.
Regarding Retreats:
-After 3 rounds of combat, if the attacker does not retreat, the defender may have the option to retreat*.
*dependent on type of combat
-Attackers retreating from an apmphib assault: Attacker must abandon all heavy equipment (ie. turn all tanks and artillery into infantry and retreat onto the transport)*.
*In the case an attacker retreats from an assault, the maximum allowed is 2 infantry per transport.
-Attacker retreat from combined land/amphib assault: same as above for amphib and land units keep heavy equipment while retreating to the territory they attacked from.
-Defender Retreating from Land: After 3 rounds of combat, if the defnder has become outnumbered by at least 3:1, the defender may choose to retreat into an adjacent friendly territory. If there are no freindly adjacent territories, the defenders cannot retreat (sry, no surrender options either :lol:).
-Defender retrating into transports: After 3 rounds of combat, if the defender has become outnumbered by at least 3:1, the defender may choose to commence an emergency evacuation onto transports. All heavy equipment is abandoned and substituted with infantry, the max allowed is 3 per transport*.
*3 inf for emergency evacuations, but normal transport carry for attackers retreating from amphib assaults.
Retreating from Naval Combat: Â This applies to both Attacking and Defending Naval Units.
Naval units may choose 1 of 2 options for retreat:
1. Naval units may “Break Contact” and remain in the disputed zone they are in at the cost of one surface vessel.
2. Naval units may retreat into an un-occupied sea-zone. If there is no un-occupied sea-zone available, option 1 is the only choice for retreating.
As always, there must be a minimum of 3 combat rounds before retreats can be invoked.
Misc. rules:
Axis Exclusive spheres of influence: German/ap units may never share the same land area or pass through eachothers’ territory, they may however, perform fly-overs of eachothers’ territories. German/Jap units may share the same sea-zone.
Bolshevization: Â All areas conquered by the U.S.S.R. is permanently U.S.S.R. territory until it is attacked by an axis player, and then captured by either a U.S. or U.K. ally*.
If the U.S. or U.K. liberate U.S.S.R. territory, they are automatically evicted from said territory and placed in the nearest allied controlled non-U.S.S.R. territory. Unless Stalinist Xenophobia applies, in this case, the said U.S./U.K. unit now becomes “Stalinized.” (aka Lend-Lease, if you can call it that).
Stalinist Xenophibia: No U.S./U.K. units may ever enter or fly-over U.S.S.R. territory*.
*Stalinist Xenophobia and Bolshevization become void if the U.S.S.R. p[layer has been completely destroyed from the map, but hapens to have their capital liberated. (ie. Stalin is no longer “Great Leader.”)
[i]Elusive Chinese Army: Â The Axis is allowed 1 round of combat per turn with the Chinese forces when attacking China or Sinkiang. Chinese forces may NEVER leave Chinese territory*. The axis player may attack China and Sinkiang in the same turn but for 1 round of combat ONLY.
-The famous “Hump Train” may bring U.S. 1 infantry to China over the Himalaya using a U.S. “bomber” (really a transport in this case) taking off from India (the bomber has an exception in range and must return to India after dropping the inf. unit).
French Resistance: Â Every 3 turns, the U.K. player may pay 5 IPC for a “Resistance Operation.” Which is 1 infantry unit in France for 1 round of combat with any single desired unit the player chooses (factories may be attacked as well).
Rocket attacks: Â Rocket attacks from AA units have a range of 1 and may be used on any land or sea unit (factories included). This is to demonstrate the distance the rocket was able to travel*.
*The only notable exceptions for the 1 range rule is: France to England, Norway to France, and Gibraltar to Algeria.
I know that’s alot to take in all at once, but here it is.
I only take credit for 1 or 2 of these “House Rules,” but I don’t remember which ones they are or where the rest came from (other than I got the off the internet).
Feed back is appreciated.
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OMG that was a fairly large information dump! Im looking at it will get back at you.
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I think I remember the Passive Interdiction bit for Subs and aircraft, I think that was mine, but I still don’t remember much about the rest.
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I take it all back,
I remembered and found where I got these house rules from:
http://www.angelfire.com/biz2/axisalliesrules/
I found a bunch more right here:
http://www.ontalink.com/games/board/axis_and_allies.html
And in fact, I have some house rules to add.
Regarding combat losses:
Inf. Arty. Ftrs. Bombers And Tanks inflict damage FIRST on opposing land units. After all opposing land units have been destroyed, THEN aircraft may be taken as a loss*//*.
*Fighter attacks choose whhether to destroy air or ground enemy units they want to destroy on a die roll of 1 only. Otherwise, fighters destroying enemy units must depend on the “Loss” roll by the opposing player.
**Inf. Arty. Tanks, Ftrs. and Bombers, when having “hit” an enemy unit, the opposing player must roll the appropriate number of dice (corresponding to the # of hits) for deciding which column of land/air/sea units get hit from the enemy attack. This is void if there’s only 1 column left. This rule also applies to Naval units.
***German Arty and ONLY German Arty. may choose to fire on opposing aircraft as part of AA, but cannot take part in the defense of that territory against ground units until the next combat round.
eg. German troops invade Karelia. Germany has 3 tanks and 5 inf. with 2 ftrs. Russia has 4 inf. 2 Tanks, 1 Arty. and 1 AA.
Russian AA misses.
2 German tanks score a hit, 1 inf hit, and 1 ftr rolls a 1. The 3 hits scored by german ground units must be rolled according to column to decide which russian units are hit first (player choice if more than 1 unit typer per column is present).
The russian player rolls 3 dice (the # of german hits), and rolls two dice with 2, and one dice with a 3. Russia has the losses of 1 tank, and the choice of losing their Arty. and 1 inf. or 2 inf.
Submarines choose which target they want to destroy in the sneak attack in the opening fire round ONLY.
This helps to add total unpredictability to combat
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I remembered a couple of things that can be added to the House Rules I posted above:
-Clarification on the “Hump Train”: The U.S. bomber may fly-over the Himalaya* to deliver the infantry unit to Greater China.
*This is classified as a National Advantage in favor of the U.S.
-AC can take 2 hits (if you want to use this rule or not is up to you).
-Income is calculated at the BEGINNING* of your turn, not at the end. Otherwise the standard procedure applies.
*Income is not collected until the end, this is to give more incentive to hold onto territories rather than to abandon them.
-National Advantages and Weps Development are up for grabs (if you care to use them or not, personally, I may go for the Weps. Dev. but not so much for Nat. Advantages).
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yeah AARHE has some elements from enhanced realism rules
though the model might be differentcollecting income at the beginning of the turn is very important
otherwise you have Western Europe invasion (D-Day) 20 times a game
and frankly thats quite stupid!Check out latest file here:
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=7188.0
We’ve included justifications and so it feels more intuitive to the reader. -
K.
Thx.
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Seeking sugguestions for italics (justification) text for this rule. Possibilty with an example.
Land Combat in special terrain
All attacking land units in a snowy or mountainous terrains has their attack decreases by 1, but not reducing below 1. -
Land Combat in special terrain
All attacking land units in a snowy or mountainous terrains has their attack decreases by 1, but not reducing below 1.This is not correct;
should read:
Land Combat in special terrain
All defending land units in a snowy or mountainous terrains have their defence increased by 1, for each combat round. -
Oh, I dont even recall it.
Are you sure?This is a bit stronger. Previously only artillery and tanks are affected. Now infantry is affected too.
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I was just proofing your stated example:
Land Combat in special terrain
All attacking land units in a snowy or mountainous terrains has their attack decreases by 1, but not reducing below 1.In a manner thats easier to read while maintaining the form. I am not even sure what this is from. But I do know that if a modifier is stated it has to be a defensive benifit rather than a negative modifier for attacks.
so what is the current special terrain modifier?
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Thats what we have in the draft.
Preivously it was “fight with -1 modifier” (which was meant to mean tanks attack at 2 instead of 3)
Now its changed to “attack decreases by 1” (to be more like LHTR)
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but why does it not read : “defence increases by 1”?
Under LHTR everything is stated by an increase…so why not in this case give the defender the increase.
e.g. infantry attack increases to two with a matching artillery unit
In poor terrain the benifit is to the defender so it should be written the same way. Why are we saying anything about the attacker?
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oh I see
ok will donow, a justification text and maybe an example
(for defender retreat the justification text was that strategic retreats did occur in WWII and one good example is tunsia, africa)
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Great!
Lets get those Germans NA’s finished as well. I will post more ideas.
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need one famous example of snowy terrain and one famous example of mountainous terrain advantage in WWII
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well you can get that from stalingrad campaign…
the mountain terrain idea could be monte cassino in italy in 1943.
those would work.
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This was originally a post in NA’s
AARHE crew:
I have some new ideas…
battleships should only be preemtive unless another battleship is present. In naval combat Battleships fight each other and take hits off each other. All other ships fight each other except transports cannot be taken as loses unless no other ships are left.
If the attacker has a battleship and the defender does not, he can decide what ship he hits if he rolls a one
Now under land combat if tanks, bombers and fighters roll a one they should be able to select the defending land target.
If bombers are attacking land targets and the defender has no air support, then attacks are also preemtive. If the defender has air units then as normal they fight dogfights…
Also, i have some new ideas covering some ideas for AARHE:
Air Superiority
Air units engage on a one to one basis. The side that has fewer air units must allocate all units to the air battle. The side that has air superiority (more units) can decide whether his extra aircraft will participate in the air or land/sea battle. He may also decide how to allocate his fighters or bombers for air or land/sea combat. Thus air units may only target ground units if they have established air superiority.+++++ now the excess planes can participate in combat, when before one enemy plane can TIE UP your bomber force.
Retreat
Attacker and defender can retreat any or all surviving units after each round of combat except units that attacked as part of an amphibious assault. Land units that attacked as part of an amphibious assault may retreat but may be targeted (free shot) for one round by all defending land units. All retreating land units are converted into infantry. Defending land units may retreat into any friendly region that was not attacked that turn. Attacking land units may retreat into any friendly region that attacking land units originated from. Sea units may retreat into any territory not occupied by enemy units. Retreating air units may land in any territory that was friendly at the start of their turn. Attacking armor, mechanized infantry, and aircraft that have sufficient movement may pursue units that retreated.++++ key idea is you can convert retreating units to infantry , but the penalty is the defender gets a free barrage ( look at Dieppe raid and St. Nasaire raid)
Withdrawal
Prior to the start of any battle, a defender may withdraw any land, sea, or air units that are in excess of the total number of respective attacking units. These units can be used to withdraw into non-combat or reinforce neighboring battles (they arrive in the second round of combat). Each type of unit (land, sea, and air) is treated separately.++++ key difference in what we allready have is a LIMITATION on defending retreats. Thus you cant fully retreat. Some detractors of our efforts dont like the total ability of the defender to retreat. But another key idea is you can withdraw to latter use to reinforce other battles ( see below)
Example: Germany (2 infantry and 2 artillery) attacks France with (6 infantry and 3 fighters). The Allies can withdraw up to 2 infantry and 3 fighters prior to the start of the battle.
Reinforcements
Units (except Bombers in defense) can reinforce adjacent regions that are being attacked. Reinforcements arrive in the second round of battle. Only units in regions that are not being attacked or units that withdrew prior to the start of another battle can be used as reinforcements. If combat in the territory that is being reinforced is concluded in one round, the reinforcements return to their original territory.+++++ this idea creates the value of a real campaign when the battle involves forces from adjacent territories. Models the war better.
These are new ideas being used elsewhere in my other games. All you people please take a good look at them and play test them. They work well.
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Summary: I think only the withdrawal/reinforcement is needed.
@Imperious:
Now under land combat if tanks, bombers and fighters roll a one they should be able to select the defending land target.
ARM (tank) hit already go on ART (artillery) or ARM (tank) first.
FTR (fighter) hits against land targets are already preemptive and targeted.
BMB (bomber) performs saturated bombing and we decided not to give them the ability to target.If bombers are attacking land targets and the defender has no air support, then attacks are also preemtive. If the defender has air units then as normal they fight dogfights…
BMB (bomber) attacks against land units are already preemptive.
Note: “air combat” is before “land combat”.Air Superiority
Air units engage on a one to one basis. The side that has fewer air units must allocate all units to the air battle. The side that has air superiority (more units) can decide whether his extra aircraft will participate in the air or land/sea battle. He may also decide how to allocate his fighters or bombers for air or land/sea combat. Thus air units may only target ground units if they have established air superiority.
+++++ now the excess planes can participate in combat, when before one enemy plane can TIE UP your bomber force.Previously we did consider allocation air units between “dogfighting” and “land combat”.
But we didn’t in the end.
Consider air units perform bombing not as well without air superiority. Harrassed.Recall excess dogfighting hits do go on land units.
So 1 FTR (fighter) is not gonna a large air fleet from hurting land units.Retreat
…
++++ key idea is you can convert retreating units to infantry , but the penalty is the defender gets a free barrage ( look at Dieppe raid and St. Nasaire raid)We could do without amphibious retreat by saying the landing crafts are not designed for that. You really need a proper dock.
But if you want we’ll look further in ampibious retreat.Withdrawal
…
Reinforcements
…We were stuggling quite a bit when we introduced defender retreat. We worked hard to make sure we don’t give defender too much extra movement.
At the moment DAS (defensive air support) lets air units move 1 space and fight from second combat cycle.
If we let land units relocate like this we need to fix the proportions.DAS needs to be increased to 2 spaces away. They fight from 1st cycle.
Land unit reinforcement has range of 1. They first from 2nd cycle. They retreat if combat was lost already.
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