AARHE: Phase 2: Units

[Guerrilla Guy]

No I don’t think that is wise… Ships would try to maneuver into their “range” and the “pre-emptive shot” is merely a BB advantage while it has the range… Now some BB’s were faster then their DD counterparts, but in this game, I think that giving them this advantage would discredit a vast majority of Naval encounters during '39-'45…

my 2 cents

GG

[Imperious Leader]

Ok in what way are BB’s getting too much value with the preemtive shot? They had larger caliber guns than all other ships and the range of these guns was much greater than say a DD, plus it reinforces the idea that  if you buy more expensive units, you get more in return for your dollar and thats one of the core values that unts should have. Spend money to get something better in return. So for each point of firepower your spending in large quantities the cost per point goes down.

[Guerrilla Guy]

OK, I see your point… If this is the case then I would make AC’s 2 hit (I think you already have that in place I just thought I’d mention it)… Their Advantage does not extend to Aircraft we are merely talking about ships here correct?

[Imperious Leader]

thats correct.

[Guerrilla Guy]

Why do Light Carriers (equivelants of Escort Carriers?) carry as much as Big Carriers? Most Escort Carriers carried 20-30 Aircraft compared to “Big” Carriers which Carried 70-80…

GG

[Imperious Leader]

I think that they should have only one plane, but that looks like a waste… Another idea is to 1) scrap escort carriers or 2) increase carriers fighter cap to 3 planes and light carriers to 2 planes. Those original ideas are just a rough sketch of what might be possible. what do you think we should do with them? Consider the naval fighters idea i think they will fit in well. if we bump up the fighter capacity on carriers.

[B.AnderssonGameMaster]

I dont like the idea with more unit types - more pieces! How ever at a glance the Mech Inf and  Heavy Art looks balanced! I would prefer a tech system for these units.  :wink:

[Imperious Leader]

Thanks for your comments… The basic idea was to offer them as optional units under phase 2… The value of some of these units is more necesary than others admitedly. The “list” includes all the possiblities so i dont expect more than 4-5 units seeing the light of day.

[tekkyy]

I am leaning towards e fewer new units and fewer map changes.

[Imperious Leader]

I would add that under phase one we just make like one unit per nation at a cheaper scale and NOT any new units… under phase two we add new NA’s and under the optional rules we add about 4-5 new units. That way the new units is only something that is optional in a latter stage.

Andersson since you dont like new units… if you had to come up with something under optional rules what would you introduce?

Cruiser?
SS panzer?
paratroopers?
mech infantry?
air transport?

grace us with some of your cognitive exploits.

[tekkyy]

I recall the argument that major paradrop operations failed.
Good exmaple were often missions on a tactical level only.

[Guerrilla Guy]

Hence the rules I added… You could just make “counters” to put under units to represent the units you can’t make… It is easier to print 50 counters then to pay for shipping

[tekkyy]

Are you talking about “counters under units” to represent new units?

[Guerrilla Guy]

yes… SS Panzers for example could have a (SS) Chit under them…

[B.AnderssonGameMaster]

Once again there is no need for more units, make nation specific instead!

[tekkyy]

Doesn’t matter.
Unless Imperioius Leader releases pretty chips or printout  8-) everyone’ll do there own things to represent.

Let start thinking about costs of units.

Many varients reduce cost of naval units such as the battleship.
Is that realistic?

This is going to be difficult as naval pieces represents fleets and no simple to compare.

[Micoom]

@B.:

Once again there is no need for more units, make nation specific instead!

Yes, but therefore we are doing several phases. Phase 1 doesn’t include new units, but does have nation specifics. Phase 2 however will have new units. And if someone doesn’t want to buy other units he/she could indeed use counters or just stick to the phase 1 rules.

Anti tank weapons something for new unit? But I personally think that you will be needing a D12 system for that, otherwise I don’t see how we can justify them instead of buying ART or Armor.

Dive bombers: Same problems;

I also like the list mentioned;

Cruiser? Could use MB BB ships
SS panzer? Could place counter beneath it.
paratroopers? Just paint some helmets
mech infantry? counters or buy jeeps or halftracks
air transport? could use the bomber indeed.

[Imperious Leader]

Dive bombers= use fighters from milton bradley

I also like the list mentioned;

Cruiser? Could use MB BB ships…. yes
SS panzer? Could place counter beneath it… paint them black… easy
paratroopers? Just paint some helmets…or buy one box of 1/72 scale paratroopers or put a counter underneath
mech infantry? counters or buy jeeps or halftracks…yes exactly… all nations used halftracks except japs… they can use trucks instead
air transport? could use the bomber indeed… yes milton bradley bomber

This is an important reason why its feasiblew to have these pieces… because we all ready have many of them!

[tekkyy]

So what about the naval unit costs?
According to Micoom’s stats posted here http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=6469.msg97775#msg97775

      Destroyed   Built
DD  476            700
AC  38              173
BB   24              20

Is it because they are very expensive to build?  Maybe BB should cost more than 24 IPC if any cost changes.

Should we come up with a list of what each piece represents?
DD   Destroyer fleet of 10
AC   Carrier task force of 5
BB    Battleship fleet of 2

@Micoom:

Anti tank weapons something for new unit?

I worry about specific countering units. It seems difficult to model as we don’t let land units pick targets.

What about land/sea mines? This would be represented by a little counter or something.
Actually is it realistic for enemy know where you’ve lay the mines?
But then they’ll know as we roll for them as they attack.
But should laying player be decider of when to “use” the mines?

[Imperious Leader]

Doesn’t matter.
Unless Imperioius Leader releases pretty chips or printout  everyone’ll do there own things to represent.

Let start thinking about costs of units.

Many varients reduce cost of naval units such as the battleship.
Is that realistic?

This is going to be difficult as naval pieces represents fleets and no simple to compare.

I can easily make you counters for the new units the idea is under phase two is to have optional units so its an OPTION for players who like this…