In which version is Russia stronger against the Axis, A2 or A3?


  • @JimmyHat:

    Yeah Jenn, I agree with Shadow on many things but you want to attack Russia early, not late.  That is what made Russia such a beast after Sealion, they had 4 rounds to build and position an army.  Attack early if you want to win.

    Most people who complained about Russia were allowing them 3+ rounds of free purchases and the ability to position units anywhere they desired.  Of course Russia is hard to defeat in that circumstance.  Hit them hard, early, before they consolidate - pierce holes north and south to prevent the linking of units.  Every Russian unit NOT in Moscow on turn 8 is not in the fight.  You only need to capture 3 zones to attack Moscow (there are six possible paths - take the road less defended).  By G8, USA has had exactly 3 combat movements while at war - only the final round could possibly give them access to put land units into Paris or Cairo - they have had a maximum of two rounds to put land units into Rome.  You simply need to delay invasions of those three VCs until Leningrad and Stalingrad are secured (if they aren’t already by Germany or likely Italy).

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Understood.  Here are my assumptions, tell me where I am off:

    Germany attacks: Yugoslavia, France, W. France, SZ 112, SZ 111, SZ 110 and SZ 106. (or do you pull back your submarines?)


  • G1 (Purchase 7 ART)
    –--------------------
    2 SUB to Canada
    2 SUB to 91
    6 INF, 2 ART from Southern Germany to Yugo, 1 INF from Slovakia to Yugo, retreat all to Slovakia after one round of fighting
    3 INF, 1 MECH, 1 TANK, 2 ART to Normandy
    4 TANK, 4 INF, 1 ART, 3 MECH, 2 TAC, 2 FTR to France
    1 BB, 1 CA, 1 FTR, 1 TAC to 112
    1 SUB, all other aircraft to 111
    I don’t bother attacking 110 - not worth it and they have no DD there.

    NCM 4 INF to Finland
    NCM 1 INF to Bulgaria
    NCM 9 INF to Poland

    G2 (Build 10 ART, 10 INF)

    Everything from front attacks Eastern Poland.
    Aircraft threaten Britain
    NCM everything else to Poland (except token defenders

    From here on in, check the number of zones you need to move to assault Moscow on G8…build accordingly.  Once Art/Inf cannot make it, change to Tank/Mech, once they cannot switch to TAC, then on G7 build STR.  Move everything into Moscow G8.  If Russia turtles and pulls everything into Moscow, you can just capture everything…if they don’t turtle you have enough concentrated might to capture Moscow anyway, and mop up afterwards.  Ignore Leningrad.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Nice.  Do you have Italy break the ground and Germany reinforce then?  That way Germany loses nothing while Italy loses a few men to Russian pickets?


  • @Cmdr:

    Nice.  Do you have Italy break the ground and Germany reinforce then?  That way Germany loses nothing while Italy loses a few men to Russian pickets?

    Yeah Italy does the standard can opener actions, and claims all peripheral territory that isn’t a VC. Italy also has to defend Europe along with all German purchases above those allotted to Moscow G8. Italy may or may not take Cairo…this becomes the critical fight if they failed.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    @shadowguidex:

    @Cmdr:

    Nice.  Do you have Italy break the ground and Germany reinforce then?  That way Germany loses nothing while Italy loses a few men to Russian pickets?

    Yeah Italy does the standard can opener actions, and claims all peripheral territory that isn’t a VC. Italy also has to defend Europe along with all German purchases above those allotted to Moscow G8. Italy may or may not take Cairo…this becomes the critical fight if they failed.

    The real blessing of Italy is being able to take land for German planes, allowing the Germans to reinforce heavily.  So peripheral territories should be taken by the Germans, while the main drag (E. Poland Belarus or E. Poland N. Ukraine, etc) should be Italian.  I agree on the VCs since there are complexes there.


  • G2 Barbarossa is the best way to get started with the war on Russia. By waiting until G4 to attack that gives them too much time to build and deploy if you go on G2 they’ll have half as many and they wont be dug in to positions to counter attack
        Make sure you get France on G1
        It almost happened the other nite….one German tank left to occupy Paris on G1

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    I am contemplating a G3 attack, only because it would give me time to pull the units from France (Mech/Arm) to the Russian front.  Also, each round you don’t attack Russia is another round you get 5 IPC.  Something to consider.  (Consider does not necessarily mean you should or should not agree, just something to think about.)


  • @Cmdr:

    I am contemplating a G3 attack, only because it would give me time to pull the units from France (Mech/Arm) to the Russian front.  Also, each round you don’t attack Russia is another round you get 5 IPC.  Something to consider.  (Consider does not necessarily mean you should or should not agree, just something to think about.)

    You get 5 more IPCs, but Russia gets 13 more INF.  Try both and you’ll see the difference (G2 vs. G3).  The INF/ART stay in France; the TANK/MECH which will catch up to your INF/ART on the Eastern Front - you don’t need them until Moscow anyway.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    @shadowguidex:

    @Cmdr:

    I am contemplating a G3 attack, only because it would give me time to pull the units from France (Mech/Arm) to the Russian front.  Also, each round you don’t attack Russia is another round you get 5 IPC.  Something to consider.  (Consider does not necessarily mean you should or should not agree, just something to think about.)

    You get 5 more IPCs, but Russia gets 13 more INF.  Try both and you’ll see the difference (G2 vs. G3).  The INF/ART stay in France; the TANK/MECH which will catch up to your INF/ART on the Eastern Front - you don’t need them until Moscow anyway.

    How do yo come to the conclusion of 13 more infantry?  I am not saying you are incorrect, I am wondering what your rationale is.

    I am thinking of a one round delay, and Japan is not delayed. (Neither is Italy.  Only Germany needs to be at peace with Russia to get the 5 IPC.)


  • Russia spends 37 IPCs a round, that’s 13 Infantry more than before.  Each round Russia adds a wall of bodies to their defense, so the earlier you start to kill them the less there are.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    An invasion by Germany on round 2 will, most likely, take out 2 Russian IPC and those might be liberated.  So the net income for Russia is the same, but they are down, perhaps, 2 infantry.  Concur?

    If you factor in a Japan 2 attack (and why not?  Russia no longer gets any benefit from a Japanese attack on Russia, so it pays to hit them as soon as possible) they might be down another 3 IPC in the far east. (Siberia, Amur, Soviet Far East.)

    The two combined should reduce Russia to 33-35 IPC which would limit them to less than 12 new infantry units.  (I highly doubt a liberation attempt would be carried out on Siberia and Amur, and Soviet Far East in almost every game is out of reach of the Russians.  So I am assuming no counter attacks against Japan.)


  • Hitting them earlier means getting to and hitting Moscow earlier, which means Moscow has a top limit of 13 less INF than an attack the following round.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    @shadowguidex:

    Hitting them earlier means getting to and hitting Moscow earlier, which means Moscow has a top limit of 13 less INF than an attack the following round.

    Gotcha.

    Assuming the standard attack pattern on Moscow is:

    Japan vs Russia
    Italy vs Russia
    Germany defeat Russia
    ?

    Or do you like to keep a bunch of Japanese armor/mech to swing back around and spank China from the rear?

  • '22 '21 '16 '15

    @shadowguidex:

    G1 (Purchase 7 ART)
    –--------------------
    2 SUB to Canada
    2 SUB to 91
    6 INF, 2 ART from Southern Germany to Yugo, 1 INF from Slovakia to Yugo, retreat all to Slovakia after one round of fighting
    3 INF, 1 MECH, 1 TANK, 2 ART to Normandy
    4 TANK, 4 INF, 1 ART, 3 MECH, 2 TAC, 2 FTR to France
    1 BB, 1 CA, 1 FTR, 1 TAC to 112
    1 SUB, all other aircraft to 111
    I don’t bother attacking 110 - not worth it and they have no DD there.

    NCM 4 INF to Finland
    NCM 1 INF to Bulgaria
    NCM 9 INF to Poland

    G2 (Build 10 ART, 10 INF)

    Everything from front attacks Eastern Poland.
    Aircraft threaten Britain
    NCM everything else to Poland (except token defenders

    From here on in, check the number of zones you need to move to assault Moscow on G8…build accordingly.  Once Art/Inf cannot make it, change to Tank/Mech, once they cannot switch to TAC, then on G7 build STR.  Move everything into Moscow G8.  If Russia turtles and pulls everything into Moscow, you can just capture everything…if they don’t turtle you have enough concentrated might to capture Moscow anyway, and mop up afterwards.  Ignore Leningrad.

    Great Moves, but what´s going on in SZ 109?
    I think it would be better to send 3 subs to SZ109 because
    all of your hits go to the ships and there you can Raid UK.
    The other 2 subs go to Canada as in your move. What do you think about?
    In that case UK has no destroyer to attack your subs in turn 2.


  • @Robson:

    @shadowguidex:

    G1 (Purchase 7 ART)
    –--------------------
    2 SUB to Canada
    2 SUB to 91
    6 INF, 2 ART from Southern Germany to Yugo, 1 INF from Slovakia to Yugo, retreat all to Slovakia after one round of fighting
    3 INF, 1 MECH, 1 TANK, 2 ART to Normandy
    4 TANK, 4 INF, 1 ART, 3 MECH, 2 TAC, 2 FTR to France
    1 BB, 1 CA, 1 FTR, 1 TAC to 112
    1 SUB, all other aircraft to 111
    I don’t bother attacking 110 - not worth it and they have no DD there.

    NCM 4 INF to Finland
    NCM 1 INF to Bulgaria
    NCM 9 INF to Poland

    G2 (Build 10 ART, 10 INF)

    Everything from front attacks Eastern Poland.
    Aircraft threaten Britain
    NCM everything else to Poland (except token defenders

    From here on in, check the number of zones you need to move to assault Moscow on G8…build accordingly.  Once Art/Inf cannot make it, change to Tank/Mech, once they cannot switch to TAC, then on G7 build STR.  Move everything into Moscow G8.  If Russia turtles and pulls everything into Moscow, you can just capture everything…if they don’t turtle you have enough concentrated might to capture Moscow anyway, and mop up afterwards.  Ignore Leningrad.

    Great Moves, but what´s going on in SZ 109?
    I think it would be better to send 3 subs to SZ109 because
    all of your hits go to the ships and there you can Raid UK.
    The other 2 subs go to Canada as in your move. What do you think about?
    In that case UK has no destroyer to attack your subs in turn 2.

    Hello Rob,

    SeaZone109 is quite hard to attack, up to 4 fighters can scramble in that zone.

  • '22 '21 '16 '15

    I know but with 3 subs in that zone who only hits the destroyer and the transporter it might work.
    The defender must take the transporter as his last casuality so the first hit get to the destroyer so you need only one hit from 3@2. The lost subs from this battle could easily replaced in turn 2.


  • It’s not designed to kill the UK fleet, it’s designed to get UK chasing your subs al over the map, make them buy Destroyers, diffuse their fleet, and spread out. The longer you can keep UK chasing subs and building destroyers the better.  Germany needs to build Artillery on G1 not subs.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    @shadowguidex:

    It’s not designed to kill the UK fleet, it’s designed to get UK chasing your subs al over the map, make them buy Destroyers, diffuse their fleet, and spread out. The longer you can keep UK chasing subs and building destroyers the better.  Germany needs to build Artillery on G1 not subs.

    Agreed.

    @Robson:

    I know but with 3 subs in that zone who only hits the destroyer and the transporter it might work.
    The defender must take the transporter as his last casuality so the first hit get to the destroyer so you need only one hit from 3@2. The lost subs from this battle could easily replaced in turn 2.

    Try 2 Submarines, 3 Fighters, 3 Tactical Bombers and a Strategic Bomber if you want to hit this zone.  You can couple it with 2 submarines to SZ 106 and get both British Transports if that is your aim.  This was my attack when setting up Sea Lion because it stopped any of the Canadian units from getting to London in time.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Round 6, Russia surrenders.  Combined strength of the Italians, Germans and Japanese are too much.  Granted, mistakes were made with China.

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