RESEARCH FACILITIES - and Infrastructure - Simple rule additions

[Fishmoto37]

@Gargantua:

That or put a nickel on the board.

nothing says research like 5 cents!

I dont have enough nickels. How about using pennies? Just my 2 cents worth.

[Pvt.Ryan]

@Fishmoto37:

@Gargantua:

That or put a nickel on the board.

nothing says research like 5 cents!

I dont have enough nickels. How about using pennies? Just my 2 cents worth.

No thats ur 1 cent worth Fish.

[dadler12]

What about purchasing additional rolls for research facilities?  Maybe it could be done in a way similar to purchasing tech tokens?  Or maybe the amount of victory cities could be tied to the amount of researchers in the facility and controlling more vc’s allows you more rolls per functional research facility?  Just some ideas.  I’ve been working on some good house rules for tech since 1940 came out and I really like this idea of research working through a facility.  Thanks Gargantua.

[dannyboy2016]

Dadler- what about major and minor research facilities? A Minor could give 1 free tech roll/turn while majors could give 2 or 3. You could alos have rules for strategic bombings of these facilities.

[Dijitz]

OR, you can keep the AA50 style (like we do) and use the research facilities to give you a -1 for one dice (rolled separately)… so like, breakthrough on a 5. When captured, opponent captures a scientist. When bombed to full damage in a single SBR (complete annihilation), or a 1 is rolled (lucky shot), loose one scientist. Scientists still cost 5 IPCs. Still roll amount of dice equal to amount of scientists, keeping dice enhanced by facilities separate from dice that are not.

[dadler12]

@Dijitz:

OR, you can keep the AA50 style (like we do) and use the research facilities to give you a -1 for one dice (rolled separately)… so like, breakthrough on a 5. When captured, opponent captures a scientist. When bombed to full damage in a single SBR (complete annihilation), or a 1 is rolled (lucky shot), loose one scientist. Scientists still cost 5 IPCs. Still roll amount of dice equal to amount of scientists, keeping dice enhanced by facilities separate from dice that are not.

so a scientist is the equivalent of a tech token?  are research facilities necessary for tech or do they simply give a bonus?  i dont understand what you’re referencing but it sounds interesting.

[Gargantua]

Hmm I like all the ideas and enthusiasm.

Remember the purpose is to keep things simple.  Anyone playtested this yet? and how well has it worked?

I don’t mind the idea of the extra scientists, but it negates the purpose then of building more then one facility, so I wouldn’t use it.

For that matter though if you wanted to get extra technical, you could also make spy pieces to try to steal technology, or assassins - sabotuers to kill reasearchers and facilities.  Whole different game at that point though.

[Jennifer]

I sort of like that hte complexes give you restoration cash.

Minor IC - 2 IPC a round, can be captured.  The idea isn’t to replace the build cost, but to defray the cost.  The premise is that it is making pots and pans as well as munitions - right?  Selling that for cash sort of like warbonds technology.

Major IC - 4 IPC a round, can be captured but is replaced with a minor IC.  Same idea and premise.

Research Facility is kind of wierd.  Wouldn’t tech tokens be a better idea, and one people are already familiar with from Anniversary?  Maybe make it so all the scientists are captured if you lose your capitol (your tokens are handed over to the nation that took your capitol, along with your treasury.)?

[Dijitz]

@dadler12:

@Dijitz:

OR, you can keep the AA50 style (like we do) and use the research facilities to give you a -1 for one dice (rolled separately)… so like, breakthrough on a 5. When captured, opponent captures a scientist. When bombed to full damage in a single SBR (complete annihilation), or a 1 is rolled (lucky shot), loose one scientist. Scientists still cost 5 IPCs. Still roll amount of dice equal to amount of scientists, keeping dice enhanced by facilities separate from dice that are not.

so a scientist is the equivalent of a tech token?  are research facilities necessary for tech or do they simply give a bonus?  i dont understand what you’re referencing but it sounds interesting.

Yes, tokens would be researchers.
The research centers would give a bonus. With the AA50 style, I never roll with more than four researchers, so, as an example, I would try to build four research centers so all four of my researchers would get a breakthrough on a five OR six.

just my 2 cents

[Jennifer]

Yes, but the way I read it, the research centers would be around forever, even if you got a technology.  Whereas, the tokens dissappear and have to be repurchased after every breakthrough.

[Dijitz]

@Cmdr:

Yes, but the way I read it, the research centers would be around forever, even if you got a technology.  Whereas, the tokens dissappear and have to be repurchased after every breakthrough.

Yup

[Jennifer]

I think that makes tokens better than research facilities then.  My opinion, your game do what you want.

[Dijitz]

Ya, but what I’m saying is use both, the facilities give your researchers a bonus, breakthrough on on a five OR six. Just a thought, I like it, more bombing options!

[dadler12]

I think the point of the research facility is that you buy it once and get to roll for tech every turn for free.  I like that idea.  Why would you buy a facility for 15 IPC and a tech token for 5 IPC?  Seems redundant.  I was thinking of a way to get an additional roll, and the scientist/tech token idea works for me.  Im gonna play test the idea with the option to buy additional tech rolls for 5 IPC.

[dannyboy2016]

How about instead of research facilities you just add those effects to industrial complexes? For every minor you get one free tech roll and for every major you get 2. On top of that you could still buy additional tech rolls. Maybe even keep the steal a tech thing when capturing enemy industrial complexes.

[dadler12]

I think the idea was to have a new facility to add a new level of strategy and flavor to the game.

[Fishmoto37]

@dadler12:

I think the idea was to have a new facility to add a new level of strategy and flavor to the game.

How about a research facility being operational until you get a breakthrough? Then on the next turn you build a new one if you wish. Maybe facility cost at 10 or 12 IPCs.

[TheDefinitiveS]

I like the idea of purchasing tech straight up. Heaps of money was invested into research and they actually used it. I like the idea of paying $15 for a research facility to be put on your capital. First research costs you an additional 10 bucks which must be purchased the round after you buy the facility. Then if you would like more research make it 12 bucks for the next then 14 so on and so on, just to make you think more seriously about purchasing it. This way you are sinking a heap of money into research ( which actually happened ) and removing all the luck. Facilities would have built in AA guns. You could SBR them . Seeing as there is 12 different techs you make the damage system work the same as ICs. If you have 5 techs and have a damage of 3 then only two techs are avaliable until you repair the facility. Total 12 damage max to the facility. ( no need to go overboard with double damage). Just decide how you will resolve which techs are purchased whether at random or choice and then which ones are damaged. You could reduce the price of buying research each time i mean it is house rules but it seems it would be worth it if you were guaranteed to get it. Maybe for that price you would be able to select exactly which tech you want. Sound fair.

[Gargantua]

Well I found a really bad-ass piece for the Reasearch facility.

The “laser” piece from Fortress america REALLY works well, and looks good.

I also currently use the “city” pieces to mark my victory cities, they look awesome, and add some game depth.

So what should we do as our final rule clarification?

Cost is 15 IPC’s,

• Each nation starts with one facility in their capitol
• they roll 1 tech dice each
• If you capture a facility, you can either keep the facility or scuttle it - and capture an enemy tech (Roll a dice if they have more than 1 tech)

London gets a facility, not Calcutta.
China has no facility

That put’s the facilities starting at 5 allied, 3 axis, but this ratio becomes 4v4 with the fall of france,  Surely the axis will become outmatched tho by a Russian and American tech facility builds… That said however, the Germans will have 2 by the end of G1.  I think it’s worth a serious playtest.  Even the little guys like Anzac and Italy get a roll each turn.

[WILD BILL]

I caught this topic from a Garg post in another topic (tying tech to IC’s). I like what Garg has done here and just wanted to continue the discussion (although it’s been inactive for nearly a year). You can see where Garg left off in the above post.

I like every power gets a research facility (except India, and China) at set-up (15 IPC value). I like that this new facility would be subject to SRR. The one thing I would like to see is a continued investment at these facilities to get tech, rather then just a free dice each turn.

How about if these research facilities worked more like a minor IC. Like a minor IC, if you don’t invest IPCs nothing is produced there.

So your given the facility at your capital, and it’s up to you to invest IPCs to produce tech. You can purchase more research facilities (15 IPCs) if you want to over spend. Each facility has the ability to roll up to 3 dice (like a minor can produce up to 3 units if they buy them). Each dice cost 3 IPCs to roll (you can roll 1-3, or none at all). You buy tech rolls just before the purchase/repair units phase, roll them, and if you get a breakthrough (only one breakthrough per turn still in effect) it goes into effect in the mobilization phase (just like a minor IC). This would allow you to make purchases accordingly, but not use your new tech in combat that turn. Any def tech like radar would be in effect as your turn ends, and you would be eligible for war bonds in the collect income phase of that turn (to spend on your next turn).

SBR would work just like a minor IC (max damage at 6). Each facility would also have built-in AA like a minor IC. If you have 3 damage, your facility is down, and you can’t buy research dice (just like you can’t produce units at a minor). You have to buy out damage markers until you are able to roll dice (two damage on the facility would allow you to buy only one researcher dice). In order to buy and roll 3 dice, you would have to clear all damage markers.

If you want to buy more then 3 dice in a turn, you would have to buy or capture another research facility (2nd facility gives you up to 6 dice). I don’t think that 3 IPCs/dice is too expensive for throw away’s (maybe 2 IPCs would work better for some ppl). You could also go with dice cost 3 IPCs, but the first one is discounted (maybe 2 IPCs), but you should have to pay something IMO. I like that it would be a facility that is subject to SBR, so extra cost could be involved in tech. If it is a pay as you go, then India could also get a research facility at their capital IMO (they rarely have expendable income). If you discount the first roll for a research facility (maybe 1-2 IPCs), then it could be worth it to build a second facility, but capturing an enemies would be pretty cool. Germany or Italy would benefit from the French research facility at Paris early on by being able to roll two dice at a discount (would make up for UK having the same discount ability if Calcutta also has a research facility). Not sure if you should be able to buy research dice before your at war (probably not).

Just thought this was an interesting thread to revive. Garg do you see this as something you would consider as an amendment for your house rule?