IL's new KISS AA50 and AA42 House rules 1.1


  • Blockhouse:
    It defends preemptively at two rolls of 3. It does not move and costs 8. It must be manned by at least one infantry and this infantry also defends. Only Artillery or Bomber hits can destroy a fortification and the fortification takes 2 hits to kill. Infantry inside cannot be destroyed until the fortification is also destroyed.

    Can you explain what you mean? Is it that if 2 threes or lower are not rolled at the same time the defense fails?

    I think you left out a bit of the rule. As i recall only a one result from Artillery or Bombers will score a hit, all other results 2-6 have no effect. Until it takes the two hits, no other hits count or can be assigned to other units.

    That idea is an old one and i think it was meant for another type of game. My approach now just is a simple modification of defense for Infantry and Artillery defending, rather than a “tough nut to crack” for the defender and give nothing in terms of modeling the defensive advantage of having a fortified structure to defend in.


  • @Imperious:

    Blockhouse:
    It defends preemptively at two rolls of 3. It does not move and costs 8. It must be manned by at least one infantry and this infantry also defends. Only Artillery or Bomber hits can destroy a fortification and the fortification takes 2 hits to kill. Infantry inside cannot be destroyed until the fortification is also destroyed.

    Can you explain what you mean? Is it that if 2 threes or lower are not rolled at the same time the defense fails?

    I think you left out a bit of the rule. As i recall only a one result from Artillery or Bombers will score a hit, all other results 2-6 have no effect. Until it takes the two hits, no other hits count or can be assigned to other units.

    That idea is an old one and i think it was meant for another type of game. My approach now just is a simple modification of defense for Infantry and Artillery defending, rather than a “tough nut to crack” for the defender and give nothing in terms of modeling the defensive advantage of having a fortified structure to defend in.

    I posted it as it is on the first page of this thread. I still don’t understand the 2 rolls of 3 for preemptive defense.


  • IL will you add a fifth NA


  • I still don’t understand the 2 rolls of 3 for preemptive defense.

    The unit gets 2 rolls at 3 or less and any hits are removed from attacking units before they fire ( similar to shore bombardments)

    IL will you add a fifth NA

    Have not found one that is juicy enough. Do you have one?


  • @Imperious:

    I still don’t understand the 2 rolls of 3 for preemptive defense.

    The unit gets 2 rolls at 3 or less and any hits are removed from attacking units before they fire ( similar to shore bombardments)

    So they cancel out the first 2 hits? Thanks IL.


  • ok:

    Attacking Shore bombardments go first ( remove loses), if you got no SB, then the Fortification fires
    Fortification fires ( remove loses)
    Remaining attacking units fire
    Defending units fire
    Remove loses


  • @Imperious:

    ok:

    Attacking Shore bombardments go first ( remove loses), if you got no SB, then the Fortification fires
    Fortification fires ( remove loses)
    Remaining attacking units fire
    Defending units fire
    Remove loses

    So the fortification fires using two dice at 3 or less for a hit?


  • yes


  • @Imperious:

    yes

    Ok. Thanks IL.


  • Blockhouse:
    It defends preemptively at two rolls of 3. It does not move and costs 8. It must be manned by at least one infantry and this infantry also defends. Only Artillery or Bomber hits can destroy a fortification and the fortification takes 2 hits to kill. Infantry inside cannot be destroyed until the fortification is also destroyed.

    interesting, it seems the house rules mentioned in this post are more for A&A 50 or the new A&A Pacific (Europe Combo)…
    but to use these in A&A 1942 they may need to have different stats.

    here’s what i was thinking:

    Blockhouse   Cost 6-8   Move 0   Att 0     Def. 0
    — Only 1 Per Territ, holds 1 or 2 inf. unit
    — 2 DMG Unit (never Destroyed)
    — • Inf. in B. House = Inf. inside Def. 3 on 1st Cycle
    OR • Inf. in B. House = Inf. fire preemptively during Amp Assault (Hit w/ 1) on 1st cycle hit only or maybe every cycle of combat

    What do ya think?


  • Blockhouse  Cost 6-8  Move 0  Att 0    Def. 0

    –- Only 1 Per Territ, holds 1 or 2 inf. unit
    — 2 DMG Unit (never Destroyed)
    — • Inf. in B. House = Inf. inside Def. 3 on 1st Cycle
    OR • Inf. in B. House = Inf. fire preemptively during Amp Assault (Hit w/ 1) on 1st cycle hit only or maybe every cycle of combat

    So what your saying is you pay 8 IPC and get up to 2 infantry getting +1 on defense for one round and the installation takes two hits and cant be destroyed?

    You can buy two artillery and also get 2 hits and they give you two rolls of 2. Id rather have that.

    Secondly, if its on the coast the infantry fire first before first round?

    Why just infantry? Artillery were fixed on the coast to pummel invaders.


  • @Imperious:

    So what your saying is you pay 8 IPC and get up to 2 infantry getting +1 on defense for one round and the installation takes two hits and cant be destroyed?

    You can buy two artillery and also get 2 hits and they give you two rolls of 2. Id rather have that.

    with this you get 2 roles of 3.

    @Imperious:

    Secondly, if its on the coast the infantry fire first before first round?

    Why just infantry? Artillery were fixed on the coast to pummel invaders.

    I guess we can make it 2 units either inf or artillery. 
    I was thinking that the Blockhouse is an artillery unit in itself, just a stationary one.  and it upgrades the units within.
    basicallly, The blockhouse would be an alternative to buying 2 artillery units. 
    that can be repaired for 1 IPC per damage, gives the 2 units inside either a 3 on defense (which i like better)
    or the preemptive fire on a amp. assault (in the 1st round)
    the fact that you can repair them is the biggest advantage i think, but it would have to be held for a full round maybe…

    Its a work in progress For The Spring 1942 game.  Didnt want to radically change the rules.


  • I guess we can make it 2 units either inf or artillery.
    I was thinking that the Blockhouse is an artillery unit in itself, just a stationary one.  and it upgrades the units within.
    basicallly, The blockhouse would be an alternative to buying 2 artillery units.
    that can be repaired for 1 IPC per damage, gives the 2 units inside either a 3 on defense (which i like better)
    or the preemptive fire on a amp. assault (in the 1st round)
    the fact that you can repair them is the biggest advantage i think, but it would have to be held for a full round maybe…

    Its a work in progress For The Spring 1942 game.  Didnt want to radically change the rules.

    This is where i feel the idea is remiss:

    Lets call these Fortifications because the word includes all types of defensive improvements that are static. Blockhouse is just the name we used because it was ‘invented’ for AA D-Day.

    The second thing is the fortification is not a unit that has its own firing value, but rather it facilitates the existing units defensive ability, So now we identify the units that would use it?

    These would be infantry and artillery based on the profiles of the units that exist. Armor are not static and not situated on the coast so they are not part of the solution.

    Infantry and Artillery would benefit from the fortification and +1 on defense makes sence.

    However, it is not clear why ONLY A FIXED NUMBER OF THEM CAN RECEIVE THIS MODIFICATION.

    I prefer to give them all a +1, while you like just 2

    If you look at the units and what they cost roughly 1 basis point of defence is generally 1 basis point in cost.

    So if you designing a new unit a 3-3 unit will cost 6 and a 1-2 will cost 3… so we plug in the numbers…

    for 8 IPC you should yield 8 points ( roughly) of value.  But since this is a fixed unit we must discount the value and also this only effects a specific border, so a further discount must occur so that it is balanced.

    If you play it with no limit of units with +1 defense for all INF and ART and it only effects the border, you got a unit that can or may not have value, depending on how the owning player used it to his advantage. Clearly depending on his employment of this proposed unit, you can infer that it can attain value to the game.

    Incidentally, a new pattern emerges from playtest. It works really good on islands and on long borders where you might expect the enemy to pass.

    This contains strong historical undertones to historical modeling. Germany can make her Atlantic Wall, but it will cost, Japan can make her island assets very powerful if she leaves alot of infantry on the islands. Italy can buy one to protect itself from invasion and UK can build one bordering Lybia and Egypt, etc…

    Many examples if provide make sence. But what you got is not validated by its cost, nor seems to be realistic.


  • @Imperious:

    Its a work in progress For The Spring 1942 game.  Didnt want to radically change the rules.

    If you look at the units and what they cost roughly 1 basis point of defence is generally 1 basis point in cost.

    So if you designing a new unit a 3-3 unit will cost 6 and a 1-2 will cost 3… so we plug in the numbers…

    for 8 IPC you should yield 8 points ( roughly) of value.  But since this is a fixed unit we must discount the value and also this only effects a specific border, so a further discount must occur so that it is balanced.

    Many examples if provide make sence. But what you got is not validated by its cost, nor seems to be realistic.

    Well I said before we are trying this out for A&A spring 1942.  Italy is not in that game.  I think the value is different from the new Europe and Pacific combo game.

    Also, in the spring 1942 version Tanks cost 5 and they are a 3-3 unit so your math doesnt work in this game. personally i feel by adding TOO much it can destabilize the overall balance.  which is Im trying to incorporate a great Idea, without radical changes.

    If the blockhouse improved all the Units in a territ it could be TOO overpowered.  Unless maybe it was a 1st cycle defense ONLY.  I can see germany buying one in every territ and having stacks there making it impenetrable, or Russia buying them and the allies jointly filing them up.  It also doesnt make Too much sence to give the bonus to All infantry and Artillery because, i dont think in those battles.  The B. House contained the entire Division of troops in a given Territory.  Maybe we could increase the number of units that benefit from the B.House defense and Offense bonus to Maybe 4 Units.

    Also, to incorporate B. House I was thinking we would have to bring in Divebombers.

    also i wasnt thinking of this idea in context woth all your other rules listed… Im just trying to modify our Game with cool ideas.  Many of your ideas are great, and seen geared towards the historical edition, with Italy, etc.


  • If the blockhouse improved all the Units in a territ it could be TOO overpowered.

    No its not based on my playtest. If you only got 4 units then only 4 get a boost. Second, it only effects the one coastline your attacking from. Thats why you place them on the border. The border ends when another line ( either by sea zone boundary or land zone boundary cross the line.

    Also, its wrecked if the defender loses the battle.


  • @Imperious:

    No its not based on my playtest.

    are you playtesting it On the Spring 1942 board? and are you playtesting it with the other rules you listed or on its own?

    @Imperious:

    If you only got 4 units then only 4 get a boost. Second, it only effects the one coastline your attacking from. Thats why you place them on the border. The border ends when another line ( either by sea zone boundary or land zone boundary cross the line.

    Also, its wrecked if the defender loses the battle.

    Interesting…… i didnt think of utilizing it only on a single border.  so what your saying is…  If germany builds a blockhouse on the Ukraine border of caucasus… then ALL units in Ukraine get the bonus if attacking from caucasus, NOT west russia, Sea Zone 16 if its an amp assault, Belorussia or Balkans.

    that’s interesting.


  • are you playtesting it On the Spring 1942 board? and are you playtesting it with the other rules you listed or on its own?

    This will have original rules. I can’t playtest it on any board except the one that is meant for it. These rules will only be for this map.

    Quote from: Imperious Leader on May 15, 2010, 04:23:58 pm
    If you only got 4 units then only 4 get a boost. Second, it only effects the one coastline your attacking from. Thats why you place them on the border. The border ends when another line ( either by sea zone boundary or land zone boundary cross the line.

    Also, its wrecked if the defender loses the battle.

    Interesting…… i didnt think of utilizing it only on a single border.  so what your saying is…  If germany builds a blockhouse on the Ukraine border of caucasus… then ALL units in Ukraine get the bonus if attacking from caucasus, NOT west russia, Sea Zone 16 if its an amp assault, Belorussia or Balkans.

    And that is why its not too powerful. If the attacker comes from other directions the benefit is not applied in those situations. ONLY the border where the fortification is placed effects the defenders. So your not building these all over the place. The places you build them will be in realistic locations and frequently they will be located where they were in the war.

    that’s interesting.


  • @Imperious:

    are you playtesting it On the Spring 1942 board? and are you playtesting it with the other rules you listed or on its own?

    This will have original rules. I can’t playtest it on any board except the one that is meant for it. These rules will only be for this map.

    Then you haven’t play tested it in conjunction with the rules in the spring 1942 game.  Im assuming you play tested your Entire house rules list… which are cool,  But, your house rules Change ALOT of things in the A&A spring 1942 game, to the point that it is a different game in itself. which apparently needs a different map also, … one that incorporates Italy, and more victory cities.  I was simply trying to ADD to the Spring 1942 game within its rule set, Subtle changes like adding tech Roles and Advantages.

    I would love to see an image for the map you play these rules on


  • @skinny1:

    @Imperious:

    ok:

    Attacking Shore bombardments go first ( remove loses), if you got no SB, then the Fortification fires
    Fortification fires ( remove loses)
    Remaining attacking units fire
    Defending units fire
    Remove loses

    So the fortification fires using two dice at 3 or less for a hit?

    If both dice roll 3 or less is it 2 hits? If 1 die roll is 3 or less is it one hit? Or is it that both dice have to be at 3 or less for 1 hit?


  • If both dice roll 3 or less is it 2 hits?

    yes…

    If 1 die roll is 3 or less is it one hit?

    yes…

    Or is it that both dice have to be at 3 or less for 1 hit?

    no…

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