L20 A-QF axis-dominion (X) vs trulpen (A+25) BM3

[axis-dominion]

@trulpen said in L20 A-QF axis-dominion (X) vs trulpen (A+25) BM3:

Did a calculation and it does not look very good for that fleet. I’ll move it to z54 during Franz. Easier with the move-edit. Thanks for the heads-up, although this game is probably over by now anyway.

ok no prob. I’ll proceed with italy then.

[axis-dominion]

TripleA Turn Summary: Italians round 21

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 Balanced Mod3, version: 3.4.0

Game History

Round: 21

    Purchase Units - Italians
        Italians buy 1 airfield, 1 artillery and 2 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 

    Combat Move - Italians
        1 infantry moved from Rostov to Caucasus
              Italians take Caucasus from Russians
        1 infantry moved from Southern Italy to 97 Sea Zone
        1 mech_infantry moved from Northern Italy to 97 Sea Zone
        1 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 1 transport moved from 97 Sea Zone to 99 Sea Zone
        1 carrier and 2 tactical_bombers moved from 97 Sea Zone to 99 Sea Zone
        1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from 99 Sea Zone to Cyprus
        1 fighter moved from Southern Italy to Cyprus
        1 fighter moved from Yugoslavia to Cyprus
        1 bomber moved from Yugoslavia to Cyprus
        2 artilleries, 5 infantry and 1 marine moved from Greece to Turkey

    Combat - Italians
        Battle in Turkey
            Italians attack with 2 artilleries, 5 infantry and 1 marine
            Americans defend with 1 airfield, 1 factory_minor and 1 infantry
                Italians roll dice for 2 artilleries, 5 infantry and 1 marine in Turkey, round 2 : 1/8 hits, 2.00 expected hits
                Americans roll dice for 1 infantry in Turkey, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Americans and 1 infantry owned by the Italians lost in Turkey
            Italians win, taking Turkey from Americans with 2 artilleries, 4 infantry and 1 marine remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
            Casualties for Italians: 1 infantry
            Casualties for Americans: 1 infantry
        Battle in Cyprus
            Italians attack with 1 bomber, 2 fighters, 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry
            British defend with 1 marine
                Italians roll dice for 1 bomber, 2 fighters, 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry in Cyprus, round 2 : 2/5 hits, 2.00 expected hits
                British roll dice for 1 marine in Cyprus, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 marine owned by the British lost in Cyprus
            Italians win, taking Cyprus from British with 1 bomber, 2 fighters, 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 5
            Casualties for British: 1 marine

    Non Combat Move - Italians
        2 fighters moved from Cyprus to Greece
        1 fighter moved from Gibraltar to Greece
        2 mech_infantrys moved from Yugoslavia to Greece
        1 aaGun and 1 infantry moved from Southern Italy to 97 Sea Zone
        1 aaGun, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 97 Sea Zone to 99 Sea Zone
        1 aaGun and 1 infantry moved from 99 Sea Zone to Turkey
        1 mech_infantry moved from Rostov to Turkey
        2 fighters moved from Afghanistan to Greece
        1 bomber moved from Cyprus to Greece
        1 fighter moved from Gibraltar to Greece
        1 infantry moved from Rostov to Caucasus
        1 aaGun and 3 infantry moved from Ukraine to Western Ukraine
        3 armour moved from Afghanistan to Eastern Persia
        1 submarine moved from 91 Sea Zone to 85 Sea Zone
        1 submarine moved from 91 Sea Zone to 82 Sea Zone
        1 carrier, 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 91 Sea Zone to 95 Sea Zone
        1 carrier and 2 tactical_bombers moved from 91 Sea Zone to 95 Sea Zone
        1 destroyer moved from 91 Sea Zone to 95 Sea Zone
        1 destroyer moved from 91 Sea Zone to 95 Sea Zone
        1 destroyer moved from 91 Sea Zone to 92 Sea Zone
        1 destroyer moved from 91 Sea Zone to 92 Sea Zone
        1 destroyer moved from 91 Sea Zone to 92 Sea Zone

    Place Units - Italians
        1 airfield placed in Greece
        1 artillery and 2 infantry placed in Southern Italy
        Italians undo move 2.
        1 infantry placed in Southern Italy
        1 artillery and 1 infantry placed in Northern Italy

    Turn Complete - Italians
        Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 0
            Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 99 Sea Zone. Rolls: 4,5
        Italians collect 24 PUs; end with 24 PUs
        Objective Italians 2 Roman Empire: Italians met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 29 PUs

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Americans regular : 0.67
Italians regular : -1.00
British regular : -0.33

Savegame

[axis-dominion]

@trulpen fun game!

[trulpen]

@axis-dominion said in L20 A-QF axis-dominion (X) vs trulpen (A+25) BM3:

@trulpen fun game!

Not really. Atleast not for me after losing all that fleet multiple times.

[trulpen]

Hmm, think you did an forbidden move there. The ac has no attack-value, so can’t defend the tr from the sub, right?

[axis-dominion]

@trulpen said in L20 A-QF axis-dominion (X) vs trulpen (A+25) BM3:

Hmm, think you did an forbidden move there. The ac has no attack-value, so can’t defend the tr from the sub, right?

No I looked it up. All that’s needed to ignore a sub is a warship. And an cv is a warship.

[trulpen]

@axis-dominion said in L20 A-QF axis-dominion (X) vs trulpen (A+25) BM3:

@trulpen said in L20 A-QF axis-dominion (X) vs trulpen (A+25) BM3:

Hmm, think you did an forbidden move there. The ac has no attack-value, so can’t defend the tr from the sub, right?

No I looked it up. All that’s needed to ignore a sub is a warship. And an cv is a warship.

I believe you’re mistaken.

“The sea zone may be either friendly or hostile, but if it is hostile it must be made friendly through sea combat before the amphibious assault can commence.”

[trulpen]

But might be that there’s a special case with subs.

[trulpen]

Think I know what the problem is.

“a transport is not allowed to offload land units for an amphibious assault in a sea zone containing 1 or more ignored enemy submarines unless at least 1 warship belonging to the attacking power is also present in the sea zone at the end of the Combat Move phase”

The thing is that you attack the sea zone with 1 ac. Battle commences. The ac gets sunk.

[axis-dominion]

@trulpen said in L20 A-QF axis-dominion (X) vs trulpen (A+25) BM3:

Think I know what the problem is.

“a transport is not allowed to offload land units for an amphibious assault in a sea zone containing 1 or more ignored enemy submarines unless at least 1 warship belonging to the attacking power is also present in the sea zone at the end of the Combat Move phase”

The thing is that you attack the sea zone with 1 ac. Battle commences. The ac gets sunk.

but I didn’t attack the sub. I ignored it, which is allowed so long as there’s at least one warship present. and a CV is a warship.

[trulpen]

What I understand it you can only ignore it if the sub chooses to submerge instead of fight during the CM. This sub would chose to fight.

[axis-dominion]

@trulpen said in L20 A-QF axis-dominion (X) vs trulpen (A+25) BM3:

What I understand it you can only ignore it if the sub chooses to submerge instead of fight during the CM. This sub would chose to fight.

no that’s not right, a long sub can be ignored during an amphibious assault

[axis-dominion]

@axis-dominion said in L20 A-QF axis-dominion (X) vs trulpen (A+25) BM3:

@trulpen said in L20 A-QF axis-dominion (X) vs trulpen (A+25) BM3:

What I understand it you can only ignore it if the sub chooses to submerge instead of fight during the CM. This sub would chose to fight.

no that’s not right, a long sub can be ignored during an amphibious assault

lone*

[axis-dominion]

@trulpen

[axis-dominion]

@trulpen so the decision is in the attacker’s hands

[trulpen]

@axis-dominion said in L20 A-QF axis-dominion (X) vs trulpen (A+25) BM3:

@trulpen said in L20 A-QF axis-dominion (X) vs trulpen (A+25) BM3:

What I understand it you can only ignore it if the sub chooses to submerge instead of fight during the CM. This sub would chose to fight.

no that’s not right, a long sub can be ignored during an amphibious assault

Yes, during the amphi, but not during the sea-battle preceding the amphi. I’m pretty certain, but if you want we can get a ruling.

[axis-dominion]

@trulpen said in L20 A-QF axis-dominion (X) vs trulpen (A+25) BM3:

@axis-dominion said in L20 A-QF axis-dominion (X) vs trulpen (A+25) BM3:

@trulpen said in L20 A-QF axis-dominion (X) vs trulpen (A+25) BM3:

What I understand it you can only ignore it if the sub chooses to submerge instead of fight during the CM. This sub would chose to fight.

no that’s not right, a long sub can be ignored during an amphibious assault

Yes, during the amphi, but not during the sea-battle preceding the amphi. I’m pretty certain, but if you want we can get a ruling.

looks like you missed my screenshot of the rules. it’s clear

[trulpen]

@axis-dominion said in L20 A-QF axis-dominion (X) vs trulpen (A+25) BM3:

@trulpen so the decision is in the attacker’s hands

Aha, that might very well be.

[trulpen]

I agree with the rule you presented. It’s crystal clear. There’s however also this rule:

“Although they don’t have an attack value and aren’t represented on the battle strip, carriers can still participate in an attack and can take hits, as long at least 1 unit with an attack value attacks along with them.”

[trulpen]

I think this situation is not particularly clear actually. On one hand the attacker may ignore subs, but on the other hand an ac has 0 attack-value and shouldn’t be able to enter a sea zone alone with enemy units, even subs, without being obliterated.