German carrier, J1 DOW, USA builds bombers, now what?

[Leatherneckinlv]

My question is why would Japan do a J1 if Germany is going Sea Lion?

Since I would never build a bomber force on turn 1 no matter what, had I done that then those bombers must be in position on turn 2 to ensure there is no Sea Lion threat. Those Bombers will eventually fall into the right applicable mode.

[variance]

@Leatherneckinlv:

My question is why would Japan do a J1 if Germany is going Sea Lion?

Germany is threatening sealion.

[taamvan]

Bombers on the West Coast can fly to London (or Iceland or Scotland)
Bombers on the East Coast can fly to Any American Airbase Island

Bombers on Scotland can fly direct to Moscow
and from Queensland to India to Moscow

Use these facts to confuse your opponent about what America intends to do.  Also use them to change your plan completely in order to adapt to Axis developments.  I wouldn’t buy all bombers because a CV and DD and TTs early help build threat on the water much better, and without TTs your opponent can often ignore you…

[Leatherneckinlv]

If Germany is doing Sea Lion……Japan must then support that by not bringing the US into the war. Keep those US factories minors and income and movement restricted

[variance]

Right, so… if I am the axis and I threaten sealion strongly with Germany and then make the “mistake” of doing a J1, and the USA responds by doing the bomber thing, does that give me an advantage in the Pacific or can USA still do well against Japan with building no ships on the first turn?

[Leatherneckinlv]

In this scenario the US is in a damned if I do position.

As a US player I would focus on UK not falling and consolidate the US in the Pacific. A couple of AP’s in the Pacific would go a long way to threaten landings in Pacific territories. US must coordinate with the ANZAC for an economy of force.

Primary Objective= UK, London not falling
Secondary Objective= Methodically match Japan so Japan can’t go hog wild (US/ANZAC cooperation) Nice staging area is Hawaiian or preferably Caroline Islands

[WILD BILL]

@variance:

On turn 1 Germany builds a carrier, bombers or does something that makes you think SEALION

Then Japan declares war and goes moo moo moo all over the pacific

Then USA builds 4 bombers and keeps the original 1 at home (these could reinforce London)

Then turn 2 Germany builds 0 transports

Will the allies survive in the Pacific?  What now?

@Leatherneckinlv:

In this scenario the US is in a damned if I do position.

As a US player I would focus on UK not falling and consolidate the US in the Pacific. A couple of AP’s in the Pacific would go a long way to threaten landings in Pacific territories. US must coordinate with the ANZAC for an economy of force.

Primary Objective= UK, London not falling
Secondary Objective= Methodically match Japan so Japan can’t go hog wild (US/ANZAC cooperation) Nice staging area is Hawaiian or preferably Caroline Islands

Remembering what started the conversation, I’m assuming the UK also did a pretty standard defend the home island build on UK1 (but may have smoked the Italian navy). The USA 4 bmr build has pretty much insured that Sea lion is off the table IMO (if it was even on the table to begin with). Sounds like the Germans were doing a Sea lion faint mainly to force the UK to defend their Island Nation (stalling any early builds around Africa/Middle East), and would consider an invasion only if the allies didn’t respond in a responsible way. Given that G2 showed no transport builds the Germans got what they wanted lol.

Now the question is where should the US send those bmrs, and what to build on US2 etc….?

Need to decide which side gets most of the US income (rounds 2-4)

I probably keep those bmrs on the Euro side to take out that shiny new German navy ASAP and start a bombing campaign on Germany to make every unit they build cost more $$$ (including former Russian ICs as they fall). With that said I think that the allies have basically set-up to attack the German economy, so Norway should probably be in their sights too (need to take out the Baltic fleet ASAP). Those same US bmrs can also help tip the scales of a Moscow attack (could also delay an attack for a round or two) and hit the German ICs at the same time. Yea I would probably start building some navy on the Euro side in a coordinated effort w/UK getting on the beaches forcing Germany to deal with lost income and allied landings.

On the Pac side I agree you need to consolidate all Pac resources, and force the Japanese to defend the money islands and Asia proper.

Yep you have some catch up to do on both sides with navy builds. You start with quite a bit on the Pac side though. You need some help from the Anz to add defense to the Pac fleet as you build-up. The Pacific side often ends up in a stalemate once the US gets to even par. The US is generally the wrecking ball, as Anz cleans up or takes some islands etc…but a couple US transports also threaten Japanese holdings.

Kinda need more info, First was there a bid? Did the Japanese include a hit on Pearl Harbor J1? Are those US ships still in play?

[variance]

As usual, you give some very helpful comments WILD BILL.  Thank you.

I’d say the US ships on the pacific side are all intact, since japan only hit Philippines, Borneo, Hong Kong, and the Battleship.  Let’s there was a bid for sub in z98 and some ground troops around Africa.  Those are fairly typical.

If I understand correctly, the bombers should be going to Europe and Japan might be getting an easy ride in the Pacific for a while

[WILD BILL]

@variance:

As usual, you give some very helpful comments WILD BILL.  Thank you.

I’d say the US ships on the pacific side are all intact, since japan only hit Philippines, Borneo, Hong Kong, and the Battleship.  Let’s there was a bid for sub in z98 and some ground troops around Africa.  Those are fairly typical.

If I understand correctly, the bombers should be going to Europe and Japan might be getting an easy ride in the Pacific for a while

Thanks Variance, yea I know that many don’t like to go Europe first and that SBR comes with some risks. Just seems that with US buying so many bmrs on the first turn that an econ attack on Germany fits. The range allows you to hit multiple ICs every turn (some may not get protection), and also keeps some of the Euro axis fighters tied down (plus they will probably keep 2 planes on their carrier). I would probably continue to add a US bmr every turn or two so the pressure stays on. At some point you will have to decide to hit the Baltic fleet or just continue to pound the ICs. With 5+ bmrs in Europe I can’t see the Germans risking the Baltic fleet in open waters so you will have to go in and kill it, maybe a double hit with US/UK?

I don’t like letting Japan grow, but when the US is brought in on the first turn I think you have to make the Euro axis pay. You have a pretty good stating fleet in the Pac (unless they also hit Pearl) so you should be able to bounce back mid game and keep Japan from getting (or keeping) the 6th VC. The Anz needs to defend itself and also build some navy to the help the US to come up/over. UK also needs to play well and maybe do some building in the Middle East so it can throw resources where needed.  A Japanese attack on India means that the Japanese fleet may be split allowing access to the money islands or an attack of opportunity. Some times it’s better to evac India and save those units for another day?

[Zhukov44]

@variance:

Right, so… if I am the axis and I threaten sealion strongly with Germany and then make the “mistake” of doing a J1, and the USA responds by doing the bomber thing, does that give me an advantage in the Pacific or can USA still do well against Japan with building no ships on the first turn?

USA should be fine.  After a J1, I can’t fault USA for investing in bombers and possibly using them on the Europe board, especially if Germany bought an ac or dd g1.  If USA decides to focus on Japan, USA can fly some bombers to New Zealand or Queensland, while buying naval units USA2 and USA3.  It may take a little longer for USA’s fleet to rival Japan’s but if USA uses those bombers effectively it evens out.

[variance]

thank you Zhukov44