• Yes of course! This will just be another version. Its possible to have more than one perfect map.

    This will be a realistic version for aesthetics of a different type.


  • ah I see you’ve implemented the colour change back to OOB Russia

    I wrote the setup table in the rules file based on the map 2007-12-19 you pointed me to
    there are maybe some consistencies such as Trans-Jordan didn’t have artillery on that map

    if you want to update to the latest terrain settings
    add mountainous to Morroco, Italian East Africa, Japan, Mexico, Western Canada
    add snowy to Greenland, Buryatia, Yakut
    add “small” to Midway, Wake, Marshall, Marianas (this quite important as there were no large islands in Central Pacific and probably why Allies historically had to go via South Pacific)

    the unit icons are not easy to read
    maybe could make battleships larger to be distinct
    say submarine 1, destroyer 1.5, battleship 2 units long
    SZ14 Italian Cruiser has a different colour than the rest of the Italian navy

    In illustrator how do move items between layers besides cut and paste? or is there a way to cut and paste without the item being shifted in x y coordinates


  • The new setup is correct. The Artillery in Trans-Jordan are needed. The map with icons has these corrected.

    To get a different layer you click object with right button and click select. Then pick the choice you want.

    sometimes you need to enlarge the picture or move something to get at another thing and then move it back.

    all repairs done new files are up.

    BTW the map does not have wake. That island is not important. Also, added Azores to small category. If you find other errors just copy the text to where you want it and finish and ill post on page one.


  • @Imperious:

    To get a different layer you click object with right button and click select. Then pick the choice you want.

    no I was referring to move an object A from layer B to layer C without changing object A’s x-y co-ordinates

    what you were referring to is not layers but just overlapping objects

    if there isn’t a way then it’ll be more work but should still have setup icons as a separate layer
    then you’ve got one file rather two to maintain/upload/etc

    BTW the map does not have wake. That island is not important. Also, added Azores to small category. If you find other errors just copy the text to where you want it and finish and ill post on page one.

    it certainly didn’t do much historical
    why did the Japanese attack it? maybe it could have a use

    yeah Azores marked as “small” is right
    and it would be great if Midway was in sz69 rather than sz56

    have yet another idea on how to have your beloved  :wink: 3 SZ Bering Strait without being awarkard
    mark icy bits of Soviet Far East and Alasaka as Artic Circle (Impassable)
    sz63 is adjacent to these two impassables but not SFE or Alasaka

    whlie you are making Artic Cirlce, probably good time to remove OOB’s sz64 connection to Western Canada


  • further on terrain

    on standard map
    *Caroline Islands is not “small” terrain (being Caroline, Marianas and Pacific Islands)
    *Finland and Archangel is not Snowy (after considering climate map and monthly temperatures)

    but of course 1939 map doesn’t have to use the same benchmark

    (though Archangel can be either as the city is right up north)


  • Ok can you just make these changes? This thing never ends with so many little details. Just fix it this last time so we dont have any more changes to make. Move Midway etc.


  • oh, you agree with all the proposals?

    *Midway
    *Bering Strait
    *Caroline Islands
    *Finland/Archangel

    I think I found out how to bump objects into another layer in illustrator
    http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1154471&page=1
    shall try it out later


  • Not Finland and archangel. everything else is good.

    If you want to add Iwo Jima (Bonin Islands) thats fine too.


  • The rules file has grammar issues, run on sentences, misspelled words.

    Also where did the oil rules go?

    The NA’s need separate bold heading for names.

    The techs got one thats stuck with another.

    A number of confusing rules. Everything should be readable one time.

    Case by case points:

    first page Id lake the Version and released info in white so it shows up.

    page 7 need sequence for 1939 version

    page 10 IPC not spent nor saved is forfeited… what does this mean?

    IPC path– you need to explain what a closed canal/ straight is ( reference by page #)

    Convoy sea zone reverse last two sentences (you roll first and apply result latter)

    Page 14 naval transport. So does this allow friendly naval transport during NCM?

    Page 15 what does relocate 50% of land units mean?

    page 16 Interdiction— Roll 1 die against each unit destroying it on its hit value? explain differently

    page 17— excess air units fight with normal combat values -2 . explain?

    anti-air  ID rolls need to be placed with ID section. Its like reading chapter 1 now and chapter 2 latter

    Page 18  the attacker can retreat even if the defender was destroyed? thats not correct.

    page 21 naval combat— if only one side has naval units the other side must retreat? what is this?

    attacker retreat— this is allowed even if defender has no units left?

    page 24 Naval combat Amp ASs— however units that break off you may not continue amp assault? doe snot make sense.

    air missions— each air unit can perform only one mission as the active player and one as the passive player ( DAS)

    planes doing DAS can also perform other missions and thats not clear.

    SBR — reference that the SR is an optional rule and reference page number.

    Page 25 what is the maximum damage for territories with a factory?

    page 28 deployment— airborne units are mobilized at capital victory city…do we need the 2 VCP part?

    page 30 Rocket tech is stuck with Hvy bomber

    self propelled---- i think we had some other value for this… for 5 ipc who would buy one? I thought we gave them a if they roll a one they select the unit they kill?

    atomic bomb should be spaced away from that box

    page 37  check the neutrals for inconsistencies from the new set up sheets

    page 38-54 bold headings and separation of NA titles.

    on page 37 replace AP for TR people don’t know about AP even though its the correct title.

    the word Soviet Union is misspelled with a Unionm but i forgot where i saw it.


  • @Imperious:

    The rules file has grammar issues, run on sentences, misspelled words.

    when I have time I’ll print it out and go through it slowly

    Also where did the oil rules go?

    thats 1939
    recall the decide was want to minimize the length and leave as much of 1939 and 1942 as possible to the map rules file

    The NA’s need separate bold heading for names.

    ok
    and I just noticed we have Superfortress immune to Anti-Air

    The techs got one thats stuck with another.

    I found it

    A number of confusing rules. Everything should be readable one time.

    Case by case points:

    first page Id lake the Version and released info in white so it shows up.

    ok

    page 7 need sequence for 1939 version

    thats in 1939 rules

    page 10 IPC not spent nor saved is forfeited… what does this mean?

    it is lost and removed from the game

    IPC path– you need to explain what a closed canal/ straight is ( reference by page #)

    “closed” is as is LHTR
    inserting cross reference to strait interdiction

    Convoy sea zone reverse last two sentences (you roll first and apply result latter)

    ok

    Page 14 naval transport. So does this allow friendly naval transport during NCM?

    yes, that is not changed

    Page 15 what does relocate 50% of land units mean?

    recall you did not like all land units in a territory to be able to reinforce an adjacent friendly territory
    hence we limit it to 50%
    I should use the word move instead since its used throughout the paragraph

    page 16 Interdiction–- Roll 1 die against each unit destroying it on its hit value? explain differently

    lets change it to
    Roll 1 die against each unit destroying it on success roll.

    page 17–- excess air units fight with normal combat values -2 . explain?

    you wanted to remove air-only attack against land units
    I wanted to keep it as I thought its too arbitrary to remove it

    so to model it better we let air only attack against land units but they would be as effective (hiding in bunkers etc)

    anti-air  ID rolls need to be placed with ID section. Its like reading chapter 1 now and chapter 2 latter

    what do you mean by ID section? like units?
    this happens in Conduct Combat phase so I put it in Conduct Combat phase

    Page 18  the attacker can retreat even if the defender was destroyed? thats not correct.

    hm, we had this for a long time
    the realism is simple straight forward

    you don’t suddenly lose the ability to retreat just because you destroyed the enemy
    if you can retreat when the enemy is harassing you
    you can retreat when th enemy is not

    of course, to capture the territory you must have an least one land unit behind

    page 21 naval combat–- if only one side has naval units the other side must retreat? what is this?

    yes actually it can removed
    it has no effect
    we already stated about carrier capacity

    attacker retreat–- this is allowed even if defender has no units left?

    yes same reason as land combat

    page 24 Naval combat Amp a**–- however units that break off you may not continue amp assault? doe snot make sense.

    if the defender runs attacker can offload
    if the attacker runs then they abort the landing

    I reword to this
    Defender retreat via break-off and submerged submarines do not prevent the land combat portion of an amphibious assault. However attacker retreat via break-off aborts the amphibious assault.

    air missions–- each air unit can perform only one mission as the active player and one as the passive player ( DAS)
    planes doing DAS can also perform other missions and thats not clear.

    which version is that?
    my file words it as
    Each air unit can only perform one air mission per turn. It may not perform normal combat in the same turn. Air missions are declared with normal combat moves. Air missions are resolved before normal combats and before Defensive Air Support air units arrive.
    we refrain from letting units fight in more than one space or doing thing to cause a complex timeline to resolve
    but anything is open to discussion
    in the end we reduced the bomber cost to 14 IPC instead

    SBR –- reference that the SR is an optional rule and reference page number.

    yes will do

    Page 25 what is the maximum damage for territories with a factory?

    territory value
    you must be referring to the difference of SBR on territories with IC and no IC

    but I realise is not correct terminology
    since excess damage is applied to saved IPC at that territory

    so reword like this…

    Economic attacks (SBR and rocket strikes) reduce a territory’s income at its next “Collect Income” phase and not reducing below zero. Excess hits are applied to saved IPC in that territory. SBR attacks are allowed on territories without an Industrial Complex. The maximum reduction to its next “Collect Income” phase is half of territory’s income value rounded down.

    page 28 deployment–- airborne units are mobilized at capital victory city…do we need the 2 VCP part?

    its to make it harder to raise then normal infantry

    page 30 Rocket tech is stuck with Hvy bomber

    yep got it

    self propelled–-- i think we had some other value for this… for 5 ipc who would buy one? I thought we gave them a if they roll a one they select the unit they kill?

    what we did give it was ability to participate one territory away
    but that was found unrealistic

    it still has its value

    INF 3 IPC
    ART 4 IPC
    ARM 5 IPC
    SPA 5 IPC

    INF + ART = 7 IPC for 4 punch, 2 punch after 1 hit
    INF + SPA = 8 IPC for 5 punch, 3 punch after 1 hit
    INF + ARM = 8 IPC for 4 punch, 3 punch after 1 hit

    they also move at 2 like tanks, so you can reinforce quickly

    atomic bomb should be spaced away from that box

    ok

    page 37  check the neutrals for inconsistencies from the new set up sheets

    I believe there are consistent with the map
    there are no setup sheets for standard map
    the 1939 setup is not included

    page 38-54 bold headings and separation of NA titles.

    will do

    on page 37 replace AP for TR people don’t know about AP even though its the correct title.

    thats left over from previous abreviations regime
    I’ll get rid of it

    the word Soviet Union is misspelled with a Unionm but i forgot where i saw it.

    found it, it was in diplomacy

    http://home.exetel.com.au/cometo/20080215_AARHE.pdf
    http://home.exetel.com.au/cometo/20080215_AARHE_clear.pdf


  • @Imperious:

    Not Finland and archangel. everything else is good.

    If you want to add Iwo Jima (Bonin Islands) thats fine too.

    Midway to sz69
    Caroline Islands not small
    you already have Iwo Jima and already marked small

    setup icons to setup icons layer
    sea zone number and lines to sea zone layer
    blue background to background layer

    so only one map file needed from now on

    2008-02-15
    http://www.mediafire.com/?e1xmghigxzz


  • so what are the final links to this map and can it be opened by anything other than adobe illustrator?


  • Tekkyy will provide these . WE are doing a final comb thru. I have played the game twice and its awesome. Now its grammar to finish up.

    Map still has things. I will redo South America and make it look better.

    Also TekkyY:

    where is following:

    Oil rules
    Rules for Maginot/Siegfried line

    I have new pictures showing progression of game. It plays VERY historical almost scary. WE got to spring 1942 and the map looked nearly exactly like AA Revised OOB set up ( no kidding) it was weird.

    The set up needs another 1-2 UK infantry in Africa. UK needs perhaps one less destroyer ( not clear) USA needs one more ship ( destroyer or sub) to block southern or central approach to its Carrier. everything else is perfect 100% .

    My god we really did this very much on target and not much work needs to be done. Of course a 1942/43 set up for 1939 map is forthcoming.

    The naval combat is very fair. in two games only lost one plane to AA rolls ( ID) thats accurate.

    Also, need one thing not sure where to add. You are not allowed to take off the free hits off your two hit wonders beyond the first time you do that.

    Example: you got 2 BB and 1 DD, you allocate 2 hits, but instead of two free BB hits, you allowed one free BB hit and the other must either be that SAME BB or the DD. you cant do that cheap trick 2 BB hits retreat and immediately repair.

    Also, where is the rule about the Italian navy not leaving the Medd unless they take Gibraltar and where is the rule that the allies cant enter the Baltic unless they own Norway and Germany?

    I will respond to your comments on your post tomorrow. need sleep.


  • @dodgyflyyer:

    so what are the final links to this map and can it be opened by anything other than adobe illustrator?

    over time I provide 72dpi PNG exports
    and occasionally 300dpi PNG exports (which takes 30 minutes having to import it into photoshop)

    the illustrator files should be viewable by acrobat reader
    sometimes it doesn’t display properly I think its working alright this time


  • @Imperious:

    Map still has things. I will redo South America and make it look better.

    ok do that with the file I uploaded
    its got all the layers
    changing shall be easy

    Oil rules
    Rules for Maginot/Siegfried line

    see 1939 rules file
    under Fortresses and Oil Centers

    latest file (no changes since last posted)
    http://home.exetel.com.au/cometo/20080214_AARHE_1939.doc

    after you make new setups you can do a final update the setup tables at the end of the file
    trans-jordan was added back in yet

    Also, need one thing not sure where to add. You are not allowed to take off the free hits off your two hit wonders beyond the first time you do that.

    in the main rules file
    I’ll add it under hit allocation

    Also, where is the rule about the Italian navy not leaving the Medd unless they take Gibraltar

    see 1939 rules
    under Italy

    and where is the rule that the allies cant enter the Baltic unless they own Norway and Germany?

    no it wasn’t norway
    control of passable is completely in territory Germany (ie. DenmarK)

    in the standard map I’ve drew in canal icons
    as it is exactly OOB canal rule so I didn’t explicitly mention it as a new rule


  • @tekkyy:

    @dodgyflyyer:

    so what are the final links to this map and can it be opened by anything other than adobe illustrator?

    over time I provide 72dpi PNG exports
    and occasionally 300dpi PNG exports (which takes 30 minutes having to import it into photoshop)

    the illustrator files should be viewable by acrobat reader
    sometimes it doesn’t display properly I think its working alright this time

    sorry i’m a bit of a newb, what do you mean by 72dpi PNG or 300dpi PNG exports?


  • its a picture format
    JPEG is good for photos
    PNG is good for artworks

    2008-02-15 PNG with setup
    http://www.mediafire.com/?fmylxwh4hcx

    2008-02-15 PNG with no setup
    http://www.mediafire.com/?cxv4bnvzmmw

    note Imperious Leader has been doing playtesting and is about to make a few changes to unit setup


  • oh my god, that’s amazing.  i like the important step of recognizing china as an independent force.  italy’s good too, but really, as long as it’s historically accurate they will suck.  i can only imagine how many hours were put into this, first rate stuff.  i’m really excited by the stuff i’m finding on this site, namiely this and the axis and allies europe board i found in the forum.


  • People like you are why we are doing this service for others. This game must live on for many years because its meat and potatoes to counterweight the Euro/Fantasy/RPG trash out now.

    control of passable is completely in territory Germany (ie. Denmark)

    This sentence make no sence to me. What are you saying? The rule should say not passable unless control of Germany by Allies. Denmark was the straight that blocked things.

    Also the 1939 file needs to be issued as Appendix in back of our rules.

    Also, the page numbers are moving around. They need to be in one place preferably in bottom right hand corner.


  • Quote
    The NA’s need separate bold heading for names.
    ok
    and I just noticed we have Superfortress immune to Anti-Air

    Ahh only jet planes (or bombers immune to AA. Also make the German NA for Long range bomber immune to this)

    Quote
    page 10 IPC not spent nor saved is forfeited… what does this mean?
    it is lost and removed from the game

    So that means you cant save money? thats not correct. You can save.

    Quote
    Page 14 naval transport. So does this allow friendly naval transport during NCM?
    yes, that is not changed

    It should mention that so to avoid confusion.

    Quote
    Page 15 what does relocate 50% of land units mean?
    recall you did not like all land units in a territory to be able to reinforce an adjacent friendly territory
    hence we limit it to 50%
    I should use the word move instead since its used throughout the paragraph

    Ok where did this 50% thing come from? I don’t remember anything on this. So its saying you cannot bring in more than 1/2 of the currently attacked pieces to reinforce for combat?

    Quote
    page 17–- excess air units fight with normal combat values -2 . explain?
    you wanted to remove air-only attack against land units
    I wanted to keep it as I thought its too arbitrary to remove it

    so to model it better we let air only attack against land units but they would be as effective (hiding in bunkers etc)

    OK but the rule as its written should be a complete sentence. “Excess air units than land units used in combat allocations receive a modifier of -2.”

    I think this rule itself as a remedy is worse than the problem its supposed to cure. Its even more arbitrary. Whats basically going on is the front line units cant possibly be supported by more support units.

    Perhaps lets do this. When the attacker brings in more air units than he is attacking on land, the defender has the opportunity to retreat BEFORE the start of combat. This would be that hes not really being engaged by anything but a token force, so he can shrug it off and not commit himself to combat. That allows the opportunity for each side to take it or leave it.

    Quote
    anti-air  ID rolls need to be placed with ID section. Its like reading chapter 1 now and chapter 2 latter
    what do you mean by ID section? like units?
    this happens in Conduct Combat phase so I put it in Conduct Combat phase

    Yes but its like getting parts of the same rule piecemeal. it should be together explained one time so its easy to locate for clarification.

    Quote
    Page 18  the attacker can retreat even if the defender was destroyed? thats not correct.
    hm, we had this for a long time
    the realism is simple straight forward

    I think the rule was If those units have movement points left over ( say armor moved only one) then it can move back. Otherwise their is not any risk ever, anybody can play keep away. The real war was never fought where you attack something and destroy the enemy and not even bother to seize the field of battle. Its too skiddish.

    you don’t suddenly lose the ability to retreat just because you destroyed the enemy
    if you can retreat when the enemy is harassing you
    you can retreat when th enemy is not

    The idea of retreat is only when you suffer loses too great to continue. When you kill the enemy your fighting in the territory. Retreat after victory makes no historical value in this.

    Quote
    page 21 naval combat–- if only one side has naval units the other side must retreat? what is this?
    yes actually it can removed
    it has no effect
    we already stated about carrier capacity

    It does not need to be said if you dead you have nothing to retreat. If it only applies to planes in sea zones, then just say that because people read this and ask what is he saying?

    “Remaining carrier based planes left after their carrier is sunk must use their last remaining movement points to find another landing spot.”

    Quote
    attacker retreat–- this is allowed even if defender has no units left?
    yes same reason as land combat

    People are scratching their head on this. Leave this out. If you dead you cant retreat you are dead. Retreat only means 'IF YOU HAVE SHIPS LEFT TO RETREAT"  Again if your tasking about planes just say the answer for the item above.

    I reword to this
    Defender retreat via break-off and submerged submarines do not prevent the land combat portion of an amphibious assault. However attacker retreat via break-off aborts the amphibious assault.

    ok this is good.

    Quote
    air missions–- each air unit can perform only one mission as the active player and one as the passive player ( DAS)
    planes doing DAS can also perform other missions and thats not clear.
    which version is that?
    my file words it as
    Each air unit can only perform one air mission per turn. It may not perform normal combat in the same turn. Air missions are declared with normal combat moves. Air missions are resolved before normal combats and before Defensive Air Support air units arrive.
    we refrain from letting units fight in more than one space or doing thing to cause a complex timeline to resolve
    but anything is open to discussion
    in the end we reduced the bomber cost to 14 IPC instead

    It must be clear that people dont think they cant use DAS as the passive player and on their own turn also perform air missions. These are more than one mission on a turn : one as defender one as attacker.

    The bomber thing was to make them more attractive.

    so reword like this…

    Economic attacks (SBR and rocket strikes) reduce a territory’s income at its next “Collect Income” phase and not reducing below zero. Excess hits are applied to saved IPC in that territory. SBR attacks are allowed on territories without an Industrial Complex. The maximum reduction to its next “Collect Income” phase is half of territory’s income value rounded down.

    Its needs to say what is the effect of SBR in BOTH cases with IC and w/o IC that is not clear. Your only taking about w/o an IC currently.

    Quote
    page 28 deployment–- airborne units are mobilized at capital victory city…do we need the 2 VCP part?
    its to make it harder to raise then normal infantry

    It needs to say at 2 VCP or higher. Otherwise people think you can only build them at 2 VCP. It has to make sense to everybody not just us.

    Quote
    self propelled–-- i think we had some other value for this… for 5 ipc who would buy one? I thought we gave them a if they roll a one they select the unit they kill?
    what we did give it was ability to participate one territory away
    but that was found unrealistic

    it still has its value

    INF 3 IPC
    ART 4 IPC
    ARM 5 IPC
    SPA 5 IPC

    Why would anybody but it. its a 3/2 unit for 5 IPC and a Tank is 3/3 for 5 IPC. What the heck?

    These are both heavy artillery and mobile artillery ( katyuskas, tank destroyers)  Thats why perhaps the thing should be able to kill target of choice on roll of one.

    INF + SPA = 8 IPC for 5 punch, 3 punch after 1 hit
    INF + ARM = 8 IPC for 4 punch, 3 punch after 1 hit

    Please explain this? SPA defends at 2 Tanks defend at 3 thats the only difference in stats.

    Quote
    page 37  check the neutrals for inconsistencies from the new set up sheets
    I believe there are consistent with the map
    there are no setup sheets for standard map
    the 1939 setup is not included

    Its almost ready we need to add it to the file. then prepare a 42 setup.

    Ok good for now. till 24 hours and you know what happens then…

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