How are the Americans going to play Operation Torch with no Vichy French to kill
They land in Morocco and fight Vichy. It should have 1 infantry
Not if they are controlled by the Allied player. The Americans will land and they will all have a big party.
OMG. Thats sucks. Oh well another house rule.
House rule: French Surrender
If the French capital is captured by an axis power, and no other allied units are in the 3 territories that make up France, the government capitulates. The axis player recieves all of France’s IPC reserves as normal, and in additon, roll a die and consult the chart below. Compare your roll to the chart and apply that result, then all results numericly lower than it. ( a roll of 3 yeilds West africa + Morocco + Corsica, to the axis)
1 - Corsica becomes axis controled
2 - French Morocco becomes axis controled
3 - French West africa becomes axis controled,
4 - French Central africa becomes axis controled
5 - Morocco becomes axis controled
6 - Syria becomes axis controled
Units on territores that become axis controled are replaced with axis units, all others remain “Free French”
I’ve got to say, that’s a pretty good rule. Germany could get really lucky with a 6 or be just, well, unlucky. Now what if Paris is captured, but there are still other units in France. Do you have to get rid of them, and then role a die, or are you saying to take out all France territories before going for Paris? Also, would Vichy units count, being as it would (as a house rule?) become a pro-axis neutral?
@Imperious:
OMG. Thats sucks. Oh well another house rule.
I know! Larry should have france become and pro axis neutral after its capital is taken. Why is he adding neutrals but not inclduing this very KISS Vichy France rule. it does not make any sence!
France gonna be a full nation with all the units?
Per LH
France gets its national tokens it gets its colonies that are all over Africa in AAE and a couple of places in the AAP game (French Indo-China and New Hebrides) It has its own dedicated colored units. If captured by the initial German blitzkrieg its surviving units are controlled by one of the allied players probably the British player. If France is liberated it recovers its liberated factories and goes back to war against the axis as any major power would.
Larry has to do something other than this.
Corsica becomes Vichy controlled ( Italian after NOV 42)
French Morocco becomes Vichy controlled
Algeria becomes Vichy controlled
Tunisia becomes Vichy controlled
French West Africa becomes British controlled
French Central Africa becomes British controlled
Levant becomes Vichy controlled
Madagascar becomes Vichy controlled
French Somaliland becomes Vichy
French Indochina Becomes Vichy
Vichy has a fixed number of military forces and is under German control ( pro axis)
A number of french forces are placed in England ( free french- pro allies)
The french get some naval units in port in West Africa ( to be determined)
No french deployment in Pacific.
I’ve been meaning to check my history books versus the territories on the gameboard to see which ones should go Axis and which ones should go Alllied. Is that what you have just done for us IL
I think we do a map where everything is accurate to 1940, then after that the normal rules of the game apply. Remember there were Axis diplomats to undermine these territories and bring them under the axis wing. Until Larry adds political subversion then I think we should play the game with the rules in place. Of course if Larry makes exceptions then what the heck, lets do it!
I’m not sure it will be a huge blunder per-se, but it will be odd that Morocco did not just convert over to the Axis after the fall of France, but again I think that until we have some sort of a political part of the game where you might be able to influence weaker countries over to your side we really can’t just have it fall over, this is a case of gameplay vs. historical accuracy and I think gameplay goes the other way on this one unless there is some game mechanic to allow this to happen at any time. Remember we are trying to make the game less scripted and more dynamic, I think we would need a mechanic to allow this.
Would be funny if there was a rule as follow :
When France is captured by an AXIS nation, France changes side to the Axis… So the guy playing Allies would become Axis over the course of the game :) That would be hilarious, and could be interesting for the gameplay (add another axis player = help Axis?) Of course, France would be limited to protecting Europe… So I guess its another stupid idea :( Nobody would want to play a stricly defensive game! Even Italy, in AA50, had a bigger role
Robert
If Larry doesn’t take into consideration Vichy France, then that will be a big blunder.
Per LH
FYI - After wrestling with this Vichy siht, I decided to skip the whole thing. France will be considered an ally power and that’s it. The confusion generated by the Vichy loyalty thing is just not worth the extra game steps. Also… perhaps I did not mention this but if and when France is liberated it reappears as a self-standing power with its own economy. The rule may end up providing France with an automatic influx of new units appearing on the board. - I’m still toying with this idea. It’s got to be simple and instinctive.
idk. I am sure he considered it. but the vichy thing would be rather complicated dont you think? I mean what happens when france is liberated? those blue units that were pro Germany suddenly arent anymore? nah I think it simplifies things
Again I think that brings politics into the game if we allowed the Vichy thing, and since there is no politics mechanic then naturally that has to be omitted. Honestly if they were to do that then we would also have to include the French resistance, and that would be confusing as well.
Most of the French territories became Vichy and not the other way around, so it makes more sense to just say if Paris falls, that all of France is now Axis.
Ok, I think I have a solution. Remember that we are playing the game starting in 1940, so Larry is going to set the game up historically at that point, and from there out we play the game and whatever happens, well….happens. I think we let things be at 1940 and whatever happened afterward is all up to us, so unless the French player wants to defect over to the Axis, he stays in the game. I’m sure that can’t happen in the actual rules but we can always do house rules for this.
Actually…If france goes vichy the game balance is even! it will be four axis and four allies. maybe the vichy thing isnt so bad if it improves game balance.
I believe (correct me if I’m wrong) Vichy was neutral and didn’t declare war on the allies it just stopped fighting the axis. I know that Vichy forces were placed under German control and defended against allied invasions though, so its very murky. I know Larry is going to want the game to follow history so there could be something to insure Germany/Italy will indeed invade and conquer France. I wonder if there will be some kind of incentive/NO for the axis to take all of France in the 1st or 2nd round. Maybe something like certain Vichy French colonies become pro axis neutrals instead of Free French territories. This would be a way for Larry to deal with the whole Vichy/free French thing. Just a though it could be way off base.
Larry already said Iraq will be pro axis and Iran (Persia) will be pro allies he thinks.The Middle East will be carved up into many more tt so Syria could be there and it should be under Vichy French rule but more likely a pro axis neutral as Vichy won’t be represented in the game. I would also think other Vichy French colonies may be handled this way.
