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Questions about how to do a KJF right.



  • I’m just how to get a KJF first strategy to work, especially since my teammate here at college wants to try a successful one.  But the two big problems that I see are actually cracking Japan, since it is harder to stop it capital, and how Russia can deal with the massive behemoth Germany baring down on it.

    Here’s hoping for some critique of ideas and some suggestions (also note, no bid to the axis)  (my teammate and I will be both playing Russia, I’ll have Britain, and he’ll have the US)  I’m also assuming Germany r1, specifically since that is what the Germany player usually does.

    Russia building 4 inf/3 art, I like having a little offensive punch  thinking just attacking West Russia, using 2 inf, 1ftr Karelia, 3 inf, 1arm Archangel, 3 inf, 1 art, 2 arm moscow, and 1 at least 1 art caucasus.  Moving 6 inf into Buryatia, 2 yakut, 2 sinkang, 2 persia.  Germany will probably take Anglo, Karelia, and send 3-4 fighters and sub against the UK battleship.

    The UK will be placing a IC in India, trying to hit japanese sub, and probably hitting the sz 59 transport with the fighter.  British bomber will be going to Siankang.  The US will be building an IC in Sinkang however, we not sure on how much should the US put in Navy against Japan.  I’m hoping to convince my teammate to go after the islands with his fleet when it is built up enough.

    My questions I have are
    1)  Do I write off Africa to Germans, and with that much more IPC to Germany, can Russia with less than half of Britain IPCs helping, hold off Germany until Japan is cracked?
    2) What should I do with my indian fleet, try to help the americans?
    3) Does America send anything against Germany?

    Thanks for the help.


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    You have to know a few things.  First:  What does your opponent usually do?  Second, how did the dice work out on Russia through Japan 1?

    If Pearl is light after the battle, feel free to sink it.  Best chance you’ll have at Japanese capital ships.  If not:

    1 British IC in India.  Attack FIC with 3 INfantry, 1 Fighter and kill as many infantry as you can before retreating (or winning.)
    1 American IC in Sinkiang and attack Pearl OR 2 Aircraft Carriers, 1 Fighter and consolidate in LA. (4 Fighters, 2 Aircraft Carriers, 1 Battleship, 1 Destroyer, 1 Transport is pretty significant for J2 to be facing.)

    America can out produce Japan because Japan has to fight Russia.  You are an island making 38 IPC base no matter what.  So after you get your DD and Trns from the Atlantic you’ll want to focus on destroyers and submarines for a couple rounds then nothing but transports and infantry from then on.


  • Moderator

    A variation of this KJF has been used against me, with great success.  So I’ve adopted it a bit and added some of my own touches.

    Russia -
    Buy inf and rt or arm
    I like any one of these:
    inf/rt/arm
    5/1/1
    3/0/3
    2/2/2
    Attack Wrus and Ukr
    Although I don’t think the Ukr attack is mandatory.
    Russia retreats all inf West (give up bury/sfe)
    You’ll need the inf against Ger

    UK
    Buy air and inf (possibly a trn - if safe from German invasion)
    Move fleet to sz 8 (place there)
    Retreat everying to Per
    Unify Aus ships and Ind ships in Sz 30 (bottom of the board)

    US
    Buy either 2 AC, 1 ftr or 1 AC, 1 BB
    Move dd to Wus sz
    Move 1 inf, 1 arm to uk with dd to sz 8
    Position ftrs in Wus sz (or Wcan/Ecan/possibly UK)
    Retreat Sin inf to Kaz
    Get bomber to UK

    Analysis

    Russia is going to be hitting Germany hard where she can.
    UK is positioning herself to land in Afr on Rd 2 both from the West and East (fleet in sz 30)
    US is building up its Pac fleet

    If Japan hits the fleet in sz 30, that could end up being a good thing since they’ll be weaking their navy and you’ve yet to spring your US buy on them.

    Round 2

    Russia trades with Ger where she can.  Probably Ukr/Kar/Belo area.
    Russia still retreats in East living 1 inf in Yak.

    UK buys air/land troops
    UK lands in Afr at Alg and possibly Egy using the 2 trns in sz 30

    US follows UK to Afr and buys another AC and 2 ftrs. and sits tight in sz 55.

    Analysis

    You are setting up a shuck-shuck to Afr so you won’t be ginving that to the Germans
    UK has landed in Afr strong and can threaten many territories in the Indian Ocean.
    The US fleet is starting to get scary to Japan and the large presence of ftrs in Sz 55 puts SZ 60 in jeopardy so the trns must be protected by Japan’s Capital ships.

    Round 3

    Russia does the same
    UK goes to Afr (or Nor)
    I think two unloads to Afr might be best
    US can still go to Afr as well
    Buy AC with 2 ftrs again.

    Analysis

    Russia loses a lot of 1 IPC ter but should be fighting Ger strong at Ukr and Kar.
    UK has secured Afr and is prepared to head north and start landing heavy in Nor.
    US has a deadly defensive Fleet and should be close to making her move (based on Japan’s rd 1-3 buys).

    Eventually (probably by round 4)
    US should be able to move to Sol then to EI
    UK can link up with US ships there
    US then starts putting an IC on EI and Bor
    UK shuttles troops to Kar from UK
    with a mini US back up.
    Russia should hold Wrus and once the Brits start landing heavy in Kar then they move to wrus as well.
    You start giving ground back to Germany and Pushing 1-2-3 style on Japan.

    US has the Islands and lands in SE Asia and UK keeps Germany boxed in and Russia holds tight and fills in the gaps.

    Once Japan loses EI, Bor, and Phil (11 ipc) and has its fleet trapped in Sz 60 or 61 it is very hard for them to really put pressure on Moscow and Germany should be able to fight thru the British and Russia forces to take Mos.

    I hope you could follow.  Personally, I think this is a fairly advanced strat b/c it takes pinpoint coordination and patience.  It looks scary early on as the Axis are taking land but once you make you move all the building up becomes worth it.  Assuming you weren’t delayed early on and Germany didn’t get too powerful, this is the risk of course.  🙂



  • I like the idea Darth, now I need to convince my teammate, perhaps I should run a game against him, since I’m the one with the board and we won’t be playing them for a little bit. It might work a little better since I may be able to catch him moving too quickly with his Japan.  Just two questions, does the second american transport head toward britain in the altantic?  And does Russia takes back some of the terrorities that it lost to Japan?  I also assume that Germany’s not supposed to get through the British and Russian, line.  :evil:

    I don’t know what the Japanese are going to do, last time we played them, they were the allies and built a carrier and submarine with the soviets first turn.  :?  Though it did kill the Mediterrean fleet with the lost of the carrier and sub, but it wasn’t worth the money lost in my mind.  But they probably will be hitting pearl, china, but I not sure how much losing FIC does to them.  I do like setting up a taking of Borneo with Britain turn 2 if they ignore the transport outside of Australia.  Which happens a lot in my games here at college.


  • Moderator

    IMO, Russia doesn’t have to worry about Japan until they hold Yak and Sin.  Bury and SFE are each only 1 and if US defends well in China (on J1) you can probably hold Sin for another turn before retreating.

    Bury/SFE and Yak are only 4 IPC, you can make that up by holding Wrus and then trading ter with Ger.

    Depending on what Germany buys, Russia should be okay for the first 3-4 rds, which is enough time for UK to land in Afr and then land in Nor and start to set up the line to Rus.

    I send the Rus sub to sz 2 on round 1, then it goes wherever the british fleet goes.
    For the US, I keep the 2 trns and 1 dd in the Atlantic for support.
    You can still build the AC-2 ftrs with US and continue to get 4 inf every turn to Afr OR set up a 2 inf to UK then 2 inf to Nor/Kar once you move your fleet north.  You just may have to keep the 1 US trn way north depending on where the Germany aircraft are.

    Germany could be quite strong by rd 3 or 4 depending on how they play (but Japan should now be worried about the US), but don’t worry if you have to fall back to Wrus and then Mos,  b/c UK should be landing inf directly into Kar at this point, followed up by 2 us inf.

    Japan is a bit of a wild card here, as long as they only build trns or IC’s on J1 you should be pretty good.  B/c once you buy your 2 ACs/ftr or AC/BB you’ll have the defensive naval advantage and your ftrs can reach sz 60, so he always has to protect that sz.

    Typically I can make the move to Sol is by rd 3 or 4.  Not before I have:  1 bb, 1 dd, 1 trn, 3 ac, 6 ftrs with another ac, 2 ftrs placed in wus sz.



  • Thanks for the clarification, I’ve convinced my teammate so we will be trying it out.



  • Darth describes a slower KJF… more like a balanced war (allies attack both Axis powers).

    Personally I think a better KJF is more agressive as early as possible.

    The allies can do ALLOT of damage to Japan before J2.  The key to this pressure is making sure Germany doesn’t just run right over Russia.
    Key to this pressure is Russia set up to hit Japan on R2, as well as UK1 moves.

    The question is how wil Germany react to the agressive Russian posturing against Japan?
    This entails the capability of hitting Manchuria as well as China (this is key)

    The key here is that Japan can only do so much on J1, and she MUST choose the correct choice(s) AND get her expected outcomes.  She has very small margin for error.  If Japan gets a poor start, she’s a lot easier to keep down/control.

    We alrady know Germany will get a good start (vrey hard to stop that for the allies), but Germany is easier to CONTAIN once she gets to a certain point of expansion… The defensicve lines are established and helped by sheer distance to moscow.

    I like putting 6 i


  • 2007 AAR League

    I dont liek KJF because the pacific turns into an American oilfield.


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    Another option iwth the British fleet I have seen work out decently is to attack SZ 59 with all your ships.

    This forces Japan to attack SZ 59 hard, limiting her resources in Asia Minor and Pearl.  After all, they cannot afford to leave a Destroyer, Transport, Aircraft Carrier and Fighter in range of the sea zones around Japan.  And that’s a pretty decent defensive force to reckon with, especially when you want to have enough to sink the Carrier group at Pearl.



  • Asia Minor is a mid-game mvoe for Japan.  Japan has no business heading for SZ34 in J1.  So all you are doing is placing the AC, BB, and some FIGs in SZ59 instead of 36.

    You MAY pull a FIG off China (especially if Japan is going Pearl Ultra-Light).  But with TWO BB’s and an AC available to trash SZ59…

    Those limey’s are heading for the bottom of the margaritta glass!  🙂



  • @Dragoon_Blade:

    I’m just how to get a KJF first strategy to work, especially since my teammate here at college wants to try a successful one.  But the two big problems that I see are actually cracking Japan, since it is harder to stop it capital, and how Russia can deal with the massive behemoth Germany baring down on it.

    Here’s hoping for some critique of ideas and some suggestions (also note, no bid to the axis)  (my teammate and I will be both playing Russia, I’ll have Britain, and he’ll have the US)  I’m also assuming Germany r1, specifically since that is what the Germany player usually does.

    Russia building 4 inf/3 art, I like having a little offensive punch  thinking just attacking West Russia, using 2 inf, 1ftr Karelia, 3 inf, 1arm Archangel, 3 inf, 1 art, 2 arm moscow, and 1 at least 1 art caucasus.  Moving 6 inf into Buryatia, 2 yakut, 2 sinkang, 2 persia.  Germany will probably take Anglo, Karelia, and send 3-4 fighters and sub against the UK battleship.

    The UK will be placing a IC in India, trying to hit japanese sub, and probably hitting the sz 59 transport with the fighter.  British bomber will be going to Siankang.  The US will be building an IC in Sinkang however, we not sure on how much should the US put in Navy against Japan.  I’m hoping to convince my teammate to go after the islands with his fleet when it is built up enough.

    My questions I have are
    1)  Do I write off Africa to Germans, and with that much more IPC to Germany, can Russia with less than half of Britain IPCs helping, hold off Germany until Japan is cracked?
    2) What should I do with my indian fleet, try to help the americans?
    3) Does America send anything against Germany?

    Thanks for the help.
    [/quote

    If you want KJF done right, you had better remember the secret herbs and spices.

    I’m gonna ask you a coupla dumbass questions.  Then I’m gonna give a lot of smart-ass answers.  Tee heez.  No, srsly, these comments should help.  Maybe.  If you dare to think about what I’m writing.

    Let us SAY that you are playing rock paper scissors.

    Now let us say that you have DECIDED for some wacky reason that players will NOT SHOW THEIR HANDS SIMULTANEOUSLY.  One player shows, then the other.

    To make things REALLY wacky, the second player doesn’t even have to decide what he has to choose until AFTER he sees what the first player chose.

    Wow, this sounds like a hell of an easy game, doesn’t it?

    Now, HERES THE TRICKY PART.

    Your opponent wants YOU to decide WHO GOES FIRST.

    WHAT DO YOU DO?

    THINK HARD.

    I have just answered all your questions.  Mostly kind of sort of.

    –1)  Do I write off Africa to Germans, and with that much more IPC to Germany, can Russia with less than half of Britain IPCs helping, hold off Germany until Japan is cracked?

    Answer:  If the Germans really want Africa, let 'em have it.  If you eat up Europe while the Germans eat up Africa - you win!

    1. What should I do with my indian fleet, try to help the americans?

    Answer:  As opposed to, say, helping the mighty Russian fleet?  No, just kidding.  Seriously, you should base your moves with the Indian fleet on the German move.  If it looks like you’ll want to KJF, you might want to unify the UK fleets.  If you want to KGF, you might want to suicide the UK fleet.

    1. Does America send anything against Germany?

    Answer:  Really depends on what Germany bought.  If Germany looks ripe for a KGF, go for it.
    [/quote]


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