I agree with Gamer that good/bad rd 1 dice can be more important than a bid, but I do think bids can be pretty influential.

Recently I’ve been doing more heavy Russian bids (only 1 unit to Egy).  Maybe I’m tempting fate by giving Ger the option to attack, but IMO its not a great risk for Ger so I’m fine with it.  And if I can get away with holding Egy with only 1 inf then great.  IMO, Europe is the bigger initial threat to the Allies, so I like to set up Russian counters and make sure Ger/Ita can’t set up the can-opener threat.

Actually let me expand on that a bit. 
1 inf to Egy is enough IF you have at least a 10 bid (1 inf, 1 rt to Russia).

I wouldn’t go 1 inf to Egy, if I only had 6, at that point you might as well just put 2 inf there.
That said, I’d never bid 6 nowadays.

If you are getting double digit bids, you can get away with 1 inf to Egy because you can put pressure more directly on the Axis elsewhere.  Which is why I like some variation of:

1 inf Egy, 2-3 units to Russia (bid range 10-14) to be placed on Bel and/or Euk.
You need at least 1 additional attacking unit for Russia (rt or arm) but I prefer two so I’ve been bidding 11+ for 2 rt to Russia 1 inf to Egy.  That said I’ll gladly take more. 

In this case I’m perfectly okay with Ger taking the shot at Egy and if they don’t I saved Egy with minimal reinforcements.
The reason I’m okay with it is:
1)  I’ve been in games like the one Gamer describes with Yoshi, and it is much worse dealing with a larger Axis presence in Afr.  I’d rather have the troops thinned out and picking them off with the Safr/Trj/Per/Ind troops.  It seems regardless of bid to Egy (all units bid to Egy), if the Axis want North Afr they can probably have it.
2a)  It encourages Germany to use the bomber here and not in Sz 2
2b)  Perhaps forces a lighter attack on Sz 12 as well, maybe only two ftrs, so you should be able to kill at least 1 G ftr on G1
3)  If they don’t use the bomber, they risk some real bad losses.
4)  If Ita does clean up, I’d rather them have it then Ger, and I’d still have my Uk ftr and would killed the G trn.
5)  Finally, the worst case for Ger can be really bad - they bring the bom and get slaughtered in Egy (retreat planes) doing minimal damage, they lose Sz 2 (or fail to kill the trn) as a result and lose a ftr (or two) in Sz 12 really putting them on the defensive as they now have to deal with the Russian bid units and UK already with 2 trns.

The downside is as, Gamer points out, Ger gets lucky and takes it.
But what did you really lose?  1 extra inf.  Again, as Gamer points out round 1 dice rolls can have more of an impact and that 1 inf can be made up by any number of dice rolls throughout the game.  As long as the rest of your bid was well placed you’ll be fine.

That said I don’t think it is bad to place two (or more units) to Egy, I just prefer having additional help for Russia.

I think you can do it, but the problem is, if you can justify building the Aus IC then you probably don’t need it.

In recent months I’ve seen more and more US all Pacific (or 90% Pac) strats and with strong US play in the Pacific you don’t really need the Aus IC.  It would help, but the US can protect Aus and take EI.  Bor is a little harder, but once those islands are taken there really isn’t much need for UK support.  It’d be nice to have a little more UK support but its not necessary and certainly not at the expense of letting Russia get crushed by Germany.

I’d consider it under a few circumstances but never in rd 1.  I’d wait until UK can get at least one of its NOs.  And in this case probably the Pac NO.  With the initial UK trn and Aus troops, if you time your taking of Car Is correctly then the US can reinforce with Naval protection.  At this point if you are guaranteed to be able to count on that NO for 2-3 turns.  You might be able to afford the investment.  This would replace the potential IC in Norway.  UK can usually afford an IC in rd 3 or so.  Most cases it probably gets put in Nor, but with a strong Pacific game you can substitute it in for Aus instead.
But again if it looks that good to potentially place in Aus, you might be able to do an Indian IC instead, which is probably better.  And finally if the US was able to take EI, you might be able to place it there.  It really depends on how patient you are and what the overall board looks like as well as your overall strategy.

What are some good ways to slow Japan without going for a full blown KJF?

I think the Allies need to use a balanced approach.  I like a split bid between EGY and Russia.  I think you need some additional firepower for Russia on the front lines to slow Germany a bit and give the other Allies a chance to get into the game.

• I think some good early plays for the Allies are blocking/reinforcing Aus on UK/US 1.
  With some US airpower down there you can force the J fleet to stay together a bit longer and not immediately throw everything they have into Asia.

• Falling back to Ind and trading Bur or then trading Ind can help you pick off a couple J inf, forcing them to go a bit heavier and with the Aus block/reinforcement you can probably gain a turn for yourself to set things up.

• US air/naval buys.  Maybe not in rd 1, but in rd 2 you could have 2 acs, 4 ftrs there with a bomber or two lurking.  This saves the US NO and forces J to at least consider the Pac as a threat.  At some point you need at least 1 US trn.

Using this apporach I usually spend Rd 1 (US) mostly on the Atlantic then from rd 2 on, it might be a 6-12 ipc for Eu or Afr (depending on if you are running 1-2 trns) and then 36-42 ipc for the Pac.

• If the US can just set up a fleet in HI or Sol (Car is much better but obviously harder), you can run trns to really annoy Japan.

42 ipc works good - AC, 2 ftrs, 1 dd per turn.  You don’t need to over buy DDs and can maybe save for more ftrs, but I think you can slow J down.

The Other Allies need to hold at Per and somewhere like Novo/Kaz/Chi (any one of those).

Any other ideas for slowing Japan or do some of these not really work?
Any other good combo moves for the Allies to use in the Pac?

@axis_roll:

@DarthMaximus:

• Falling back to Ind and trading Bur or then trading Ind can help you pick off a couple J inf, forcing them to go a bit heavier and with the Aus block/reinforcement you can probably gain a turn for yourself to set things up.

If you’re lucky enough to do this.  Japan can collapse pretty quickly on Burma if they want to.   We like a Russian bomber buy on R1, in Caucasus.  This threatens the single transport taking Java/Sumatra (sz38).  Can slow Japanese expansion a little bit.

The sick thing about Asia is that the Chinese can be ignored (for the most part)  Japan only needs Manchuria and kiangsu each turn.

I’m not sure if there is much luck to it.  UK blocks AUS.  US reinforces with 1-2 ftrs, 1 bom.  UK falls back to Ind.

Japan either commits to taking Aus in Rd 3 or to India.  They can’t have both (heavy) by rd 3 in this case.  Assuming you send your US ac/dd back towards WUS and drop another ac + 3 ftrs on the west coast in Rd 2. 
If J went towards Aus, then US ftrs can reinforce Ind (if safe) or allows you to trade ind picking off the forward inf with your initial units plus ftr (egy).  If J goes hard after India then the US might be able to set up early position in Sol or HI (at the very least).

Japan can ignore China, but at least then aren’t getting the ipcs for it.

@axis_roll:

@DarthMaximus:

• US air/naval buys.  Maybe not in rd 1, but in rd 2 you could have 2 acs, 4 ftrs there with a bomber or two lurking.  This saves the US NO and forces J to at least consider the Pac as a threat.  At some point you need at least 1 US trn.

You would need all that and maybe more since the J1 philipines navy and 2 carriers from hawaii attack can be stationed in Hawaii J2.

That’s true, but not likely to happen, given the Aus block and small Ind stack. 
So Japan isn’t going to try and push UK out of India and they aren’t going after Aus on J2???

@axis_roll:

A good Japanese player will commit just enough to keep the USA navy at bay.  Surely, there will be some allied gains, but nowhere near enough to offset the costs.  Your bet bet would be to get a tech to catch the japanese navy unprepared (like scoring LR).  Who wants to rely on that.

Sorry, I wish I did see a way for this to work, but against a capable Japanese player, it is not going to happen.  What you may gain in slowing the japanese, you lose allowing Germany to grow with less back door pressure.

I don’t think it is easy to commit “just enough”.  How much is that?  IPC for IPC or keeping just enough offense to prevent a US move?  B/c any ships J buys can’t prevent a move since both HI and Sol are 3 spots from Sz 62.  Unless J has an IC on Sum.  But HI is still open for a move.

So are you saying there is no way to slow Japan unless you fully commit to a KJF?  Or that you have to place bid units in the Pac (Russian bom like you mentioned, etc)?

I’m not saying you can do all these things every game or that containing Japan is easy, but I think you can force them into making tough decisions early on when they aren’t earning 50+.

I will also say it requires strong Russian and UK play to hold Ger at bay, that’s why I like 2 offensive units for Russia in a bid.  It allows you to potentially counter Bst, Epl, and Ukr on Rus 1.  (you can’t counter all of them but Ger can’t leave armies vulnerable either).  This means Ger has to really think about what they bring into what on G1.

Cool move. 

What is UK typically doing in SE Asia?  I’m thinking they can hold Ind for a while in this case.  But I don’t know until I played out a few games seeing this.

@axis_roll:

And, Japan is almost happy to give Germany the early breathing room.

Not to be boring, but it isn’t a bad play for the Allies to go all out KGF.  As long as the US didn’t buy Pac ships on US 1, the J2 move would be annoying but then you see the Allies throw everything at Ger.  Regardless, some people see this as the way to go anyway.

I tend to think a little more balance is needed, but if you know J is going to force the issue it certainly isn’t bad to have the US supply major help to Europe starting in rd 1.

It does sound interesting and after all, bombers are so fun as it is. 

That’s good to hear about the Atlantic.  I guess if the US commits to the Atlantic the extra bomber won’t slow much.  I’m thinking a 2 carrier rd 1 buy with dd.  And the US can conservatively have 1 dd, 1 cru, 2 ac, 4 ftrs, 1 bb floating around and that doesn’t even include a round two buy.

That’s definitely a solid plan of attack for J.

It’s just not a commitment I want make on J1, without seeing the US plans.  Just personal preference there.

I should say, I’ve been assuming the UK hits the J trn/dd in Sz 61 on UK 1 and no sz 37 attack.  Ftr/cru to Sz 61.  UK AC to safest spot on eastern afr, the Aus Cru/trn 2 inf to safe spot in South East Pac (either to go to Afr or join up with US Pac fleet).  Also an avg bid 9-12 used on maybe 1-2 inf Egy, 1-2 inf Rus.

I also think there are some German openings that make the EI IC on J1 a little safer IMO, but I personally like to see what the US is up to before I place any J factories.  I’m a big fan of trns on J1.

Those are certainly good points, but it is not that the US is going to take EI, it is that you are never going to need those (4) build spaces for Japan.  Or more accurately, be able to use them every turn.

The problem with the factory is you are ultimately going to have to defend either Sz 37 or Sz 60.

The US can pretty quickly go to Mid or Ala (say US 2).  Then you go to Wake (US 3).  Very quickly Japan sees the US coming at them an must counter.  And once Japan counters with additional ships or air, you don’t need 12 build slots and you won’t be needing to place tons of Navy in Sz 37 at this point b/c the US can have a token threat on Japan.

Again, I’m not saying Japan will fall or EI will fall, or the US will sink the J fleet anytime soon, what I’m saying is you spent 15 ipcs on something that:
1)  You won’t be using for its intended purpose (crush india sooner) or using very much at all
2)  You won’t be needing for added build slots since planes and possibly ships are more expensive than inf and rt.

I think the safer play is to just to wait until J2.  Yes you don’t get to India any faster, but you also get to see if the US pulls out of the Pac or how they plan to play on US 1.

Personally I don’t like putting the target out there on J1.  It just invites a scenario where you feel obligated to defend it and you end up not placing a bunch of units down there as the US builds up its navy and moves out into the Pac.

Seems interesting, but wouldn’t it be that much harder for the Allies to get a fleet in the Atlantic?  Germany gets an extra 4 attacker and the Allies have no added ships defensive points for a navy.
Germany could even buy a 3rd (or 4th) bomber on G1 and really mess with the Allies getting a fleet going.

I do like the idea of a UK bom in Ind. 

Great Article!

@Argothair:

POLAR EXPRESS

In the Polar Express, you set up to quickly ferry troops into Alaska, building a factory there and penetrating as far into the American interior as circumstances allow. This opening won’t let you actually conquer the United States unless your opponents royally screw up, but it can distract the heck out of the USA during crucial turns when they really need to be ferrying troops to Paris.

There is an interesting variation to this using Germany too.
G1 - buy AC + DD otherwise normal G1.  Take Gib.
G2 - Unify G fleet off of France

G3 - Take Ecan and on J3 take Ala.  (I’m not sure if Wcan is in play on J3, it may depend on transport movement on J2)

This was a really nasty surprise in Revised b/c J could drop directly into Wcan from the Ala sz (I forget the #).  It’s a little different here, but you can still surprise the US.

–---------------------------

I like the idea of the East India Factory, but the problem is the commitment on J1.  It opens Japan up to a US Pac strat, with minor annoyance from any surviving UK ships.  I’m not saying you are going lose the factory anytime soon to the US, just that I’m going to force you to defend it, or at the very least buy navy so you won’t be getting the “planned” troops to Asia.  I’m going to try an make it a “wasted” purchase.

A lot of this can depend on if Pearl was hit or not and what the Allies did with the UK ships etc., but it is an option for the US since you get to see how all of rd 1 played out.

There usually is a fairly safe spot to land the bomber.

Assuming the US gets one hit and you lose your 4 move ftr you can end up with a sub/cru left there, and the cru blocks some moves, but even if US wants to go after your bomber that exposes their battleship.  It’s not usually a trade they’ll want to make that early, especially if they were planning on bringing the BB to the Atlantic to help with a KGF.  The surviving cru also becomes the “easier” 12 ipc target to hit with potentially less risk of a counter depending on where the J ACs are.

I’ll typically plan on landing my surviving J ftr with the bom so I have the freedom to move my two carriers where ever I want, then I gauge the results of Pearl and figure out if I really need the ftr with the bomber or do I need it elsewhere.

2015 Summer-Fall –-- Spring 42.2 Tournament ----

–-------------------------------------------------------------

@DarthMaximus:

This thread is for the Spring 42.2 tournament discussion

–-------------------------------------------------------------

Tournament Games/Winners

Round 1 Games

Game 1

wittman vs. Private Panic
Winner: wittman

Game 2

Djensen vs. calvinhobbesliker
Winner: calvinhobbesliker

Game 3

Innohub vs. Geograph
Winner: Geograph

Game 4

DarthMaximus vs. gygy
Winner: DarthMaximus

Game 5

P@ther vs. JEB
Winner: JEB

Game 6

Black_Elk vs. MagicQ
Winner: MagicQ

Game 7

rmorel vs. Dedo
Winner: rmorel

Game 8

craykirk vs. Cow
Winner: Cow

Round 2 Games

Game 9

wittman vs. calvinhobbesliker
Winner: wittman

Game 10

Geograph vs. DarthMaximus
Winner: Geograph

Game 11

JEB vs. MagicQ
Winner: JEB

Game 12

rmorel vs. Cow
Winner: rmorel

Semi-Final Games

Game 13

wittman vs. Geograph
Winner: Geograph

Game 14

JEB vs. rmorel
Winner: JEB

Championship

Game 15

Geograph vs. JEB
Winner: Geograph

Congrats Geo!

Good game guys and well played guys.

Geograph is the Winner!

Congrats and well played!

Thanks to everyone who played and making it a successful tournament.  I think it went pretty smoothly for a 16 player tournament and assuming we’d have interest I’d have no problem setting up another tournament in the future.  We can let Geo celebrate his victory a little bit though. 

Perhaps in the spring, maybe a few weeks, I’ll look towards do a sign up or something.

Any comments about the tourney?  Improvements or things we need to do?

Thanks again to everyone who played and watched the games.

I enjoy our game too!  They are really fun. 
Another one would be great.  Maybe in a few days or a week or so.  I can shoot you a PM or something when I’m ready.