How much does artillery help?

[critmonster]

just finished a game (ftf) and decided to go heavy art w/russia-very successful
as long as you keep your suply lines tight and short they really chew germany up

[frood]

Just make sure you use them to attack - otherwise they are just overpriced infantry on defence.

[Baghdaddy]

A strategy I have used effectively as Germany calls for a fairly heavy ART/INF mix with lots of FTR.

Essentially, rather than going for an all out kill of USSR, Germany instead treats the Eastern front as an active defense zone.  Only send enough forces east to keep the USSR in active contention for KAR, BEL and UKR.  Germany should be in possession of these territories at the end of each turn with minimal forces and plenty of INF and ART lined up for the counter attack.  This keeps German supply lines short and holds the USSR army some distance from defending MOS.  The IC point count for the Eastern Front remains relatively static but USSR is losing turf to Japan every turn.  ARM is held back (in EEU) for the times when it is really needed and then it should be in a stack with a lot of INF as fodder.  Keep your eye open for the lightly defended ARC.  Nothing sweeter than an ARM push to Moscow.  You will probably lose more IC in ARM than you get in captured IC but it will certainly refocus an over extended USSR.

Turning the Eastern Front into a war of attrition with the German playing defense really chews up USSR resources.  BTW, never let the USSR player keep a FTR long.  You can’t afford the mobility it gives him.  He has to be forced to commit ground forces toward Germany so Japan has a fast track to Moscow.

I’ll leave to your imagination what those extra resources not dying in the fourth retaking of CAU can do to the UK and US.  Personally, I love African diamonds, Brazilian women and Cuban cigars …

INF and ART on the Eastern Front is definitely an viable option.

[Baghdaddy]

As first and second turn ground unit builds for Japan, they are quite nice.  They fill up the transport while adding offensive capability to the infantry and travel with the infantry.

Essentially, 4 transports gets you 4 Inf and 4 Art.  Do that for two or three turns and then start churning out 4 Inf and 4 ARM.  The ARM can rush up to the front line and the INF just plods along to take its turn as replacements.  That first group of ART, with INF fodder and FTR support is the beginning edge of the Japanese offense.

[Guest]

Exactly!

[frood]

@Baghdaddy:

As first and second turn ground unit builds for Japan, they are quite nice.  They fill up the transport while adding offensive capability to the infantry and travel with the infantry.

Essentially, 4 transports gets you 4 Inf and 4 Art.  Do that for two or three turns and then start churning out 4 Inf and 4 ARM.  The ARM can rush up to the front line and the INF just plods along to take its turn as replacements.  That first group of ART, with INF fodder and FTR support is the beginning edge of the Japanese offense.

You can also just build all Inf, and have more money for more tanks later on, or more transports or whatever. I’ll have to reconsider Art a little though.

[NoMercy]

Art are important for Germany and Japan, They are helpful and deciding factors in any siege attempt against a Russian Wall.
everybody seems to there own idea on a ratio of units.

From experience I just know you need about 6-10 Art when your doing your major assault. I tend to get that in the first 4-5 rounds of the game, after that it’s mostly infantry + Arm

You can run your own simulations (30 ish Infantry attacking at 1 will hardly get you any hits) 15-20 infantry will get you roughly the same amount of hits but if the rest are added with Artillery now your talking.

Artillery are good for Russia on the allied side to help in the trading of territories. but besides that I don’t find UK or USA needs them nearly as much. the UK will have shore bombardment + fgts and perhaps 1 bmb to help trade the few territories it’s trading with Germany.

I guess basically what I am saying is Artillery are good for assaults and not for trading territories nearly as much unless your Russia. all the other countries will be using mostly Fighters teamed up with Infantry to trade territories

[frood]

Well from my experience (Moscow sacked 3 games in a row) you don’t need any artillery, because none of those assaults involved more than maybe 3 artillery, and that was the most. 1 or 2 for the others.

[Guest]

The trick with artillery, as has been posted earlier, is that it is valuable for an attacker, and a waste for a defender (overpriced INF).

So, the question as to whether or not to buy ART over ARM to add to your INF is a matter of 2 questions…
1.  Available Cash
2.  Whether you are predominately attacking, whether you are actively trading, or whether you are defending.

[frood]

That 2nd question is not as simple as it seems though - Russia’s role is to defend, but a good way to defend is to counter-attack. So I wouldn’t write artillery off for Russia just because it has to play defence.

[critmonster]

russian artillery if you are trading single countries (holding the one you took while vacating the one you took it from)  if you are ‘nibbling’ then inf/air is vastly more cost effective.

i also used to just buy the art when i had the extra buck, too piece meal.  either art and mean it or save the buck for next turn

[cyan]

@froodster:

That 2nd question is not as simple as it seems though - Russia’s role is to defend, but a good way to defend is to counter-attack. So I wouldn’t write artillery off for Russia just because it has to play defence.

umm this is suppose to be how russia can win not how Germany can win. rember my maxum “Russia: germany can’t take moscow if your march to france.” i sya build inf and artillery unitll you can take addvantage of tank movement.(2 spaces from and ic)

[U-505]

I love artillery. It’s probably my favorite unit. But jsp already knew that. Pound for pound it beats armor in everything but mobility. Run a sim of 5 art vs 4 arm and you’ll see what I mean. Wait, I shouldn’t be saying this. Never mind. Artillery sucks. Don’t buy it.

[cyan]

@U-505:

I love artillery. It’s probably my favorite unit.

ok Mr. Submarine  :roll:

[cyan]

@U-505:

I love artillery. It’s probably my favorite unit. But jsp already knew that. Pound for pound it beats armor in everything but mobility. Run a sim of 5 art vs 4 arm and you’ll see what I mean. Wait, I shouldn’t be saying this. Never mind. Artillery sucks. Don’t buy it.

just to reinforce this do 7 infatnry and 7 armour versus 8 inf and 8 artillery. then swap the units.

[frood]

Yeah, I’ve run that sim many times - in fact that question is one of the main reasons I built my sim. However, that sim doesn’t tell everything - the speed of armor is worth maybe more than you think.

Yes, I agree, 8 Art in Ukraine add more punch to the assault on Caucasus than 7 Tanks. However, Those 7 tanks can add their punch to that assault while sitting in Eastern Europe, where they also:

a) are defending Eastern Europe
b) are in striking distance of every single European territory.

So if suddenly the allies land in WE, your 8 artillery in Ukraine are worthless, while the armor allows you to respond. Which in turn may dissuade the attack in the first place. The trouble with building artillery first until the range of Tanks is “useful” is that you’ll have less tanks in the end. There’s nothing like a hammer of 30 tanks and infantry everywhere to keep the allies at a respectful distance.

I could see for Russia though that they would be more worthwhile. Still, defensively you can’t beat infantry, which Russia can build to reinforce territories taken by the UK/US before Germany gets to counterattack.

[Jennifer]

Dan,

I think you’re missing the point with Japan.  4 Inf, 4 Art fills 4 transports AND maximizes the production capabilities of Japan.  Don’t forget that limitation as well.

Personally, I think 6 or 9 transports, 6 ground units in Japan and ICs on the mainland is the way to go with Japan.  Gives you the flexibility for more navy/airforce without wasting transport room and gives you unprecedented mobility.

I hold teh same true for England.  3 Transports are all you need, since you’ll want to put a fighter or two in teh mix as well.

[frood]

I disagree on England - to really keep Germany on its toes something like 7 TRN are nice. Then you can threaten Germany / EE / WE with 14 land units at any time. Otherwise Germany is free to send a lot more stuff to the Russian front. That’s one reason why in our game I was never really concerned about the UK - most of their units had little mobility, and UK was only unloading 6 land units per turn. So, a huge German force went to support the assault on Moscow instead of staying home to guard the side/back door.

With Japan I achieve economy by grabbing all the Island Infantry and grabbing all the land I can early on. Once your production is at 47 or something you don’t have to worry about saving $1 by buying Artillery. And Armor take better advantage of the Japan production limit. Art don’t maximize the production capabilities of Japan. 8 Ftrs would MAXIMIZE the 8 units you can build there in terms of strategic capability. But 4 Inf 4 Arm maximize it more than 4 Inf 4 Art.

The Armor cost no more in the long run because they don’t need transports to get to Persia quickly, so you can build fewer transports and just have a few extra to shuttle Infantry to the front.

[ajgundam5]

With UK you can’t even fill the 7 Trns every turn.

[Guest]

No, but you CAN use those TRNs to grab troops from places like Norway that were previously landed and transport them to other territories like Western, Germany, or Eastern, allowign you to double your force in such an attack.